So..This is a new feeling.


Aett_Thorn

 

Posted

Generally I am a good gamer. I understand game mechanics and numbers and all of that kind of stuff. But I don't understand this game nor can I find the information to understand the powers and what they are capable of. Which brings me to the problem that I don't understand what most people are talking about on the archetype boards. Has anyone got a link to a source that could help me understand how to optimize a character in this game?


 

Posted

Specific questions would be better, but you can use the Paragon Wiki to find a lot of info.

Another useful item would be Mid's Hero Designer which you can download at CoHPlanner.com. When you build your character with that, you'll get all the nitty gritty numbers.


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Posted

All the information you need about what powers are capable of is available in-game, visible when you select powers or enhance them.


"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...

 

Posted

I think his question is more about what is softcap, Enhancement Diversification (ED), Global defense nerf (GDN)... etc and how they affect the way you build a character for min/max.

Again, most (if not all) of these are in the wiki or you can post questions about them here or in the AT forums.

you can also pm me if you need any help, i'll do my best


 

Posted

Honestly, my advice is to not try. From your registration date, post count, and the general vagueness of your comment, I'm assuming that you're new. If this is the case, then the best thing to do would be to create a few characters that you know will be throw-away or eventually pretty radically changed in their power selection choice. Go through the tutorial and intro missions, maybe to level 25 or so, and then create another character.

Lather, rinse, and repeat for two or three weeks until you get a firm grasp on what kinds of things you like and don't like about powersets, then settle on (or create) a "main" that you level up to 50. Don't power-level or farm--those things actually suck the fun out of the game, especially for relatively new players. Just run missions, do some task forces now and then, and enjoy.

I assure you that within a month to two, you'll have a firm grasp on the mechanics of the game, a really good start on what does what, where to find more information you're looking for, and the quesitons you post here will be specifically about nitty-gritty things that you need to shore up your knowledge base.

In other words, don't get too far ahead of yourself. It's a little like programming. Don't start off by trying to write Microsoft Windows. First, get "Hello, world!" working, and go from there.


We've been saving Paragon City for eight and a half years. It's time to do it one more time.
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Partheus View Post
Generally I am a good gamer. I understand game mechanics and numbers and all of that kind of stuff. But I don't understand this game nor can I find the information to understand the powers and what they are capable of. Which brings me to the problem that I don't understand what most people are talking about on the archetype boards. Has anyone got a link to a source that could help me understand how to optimize a character in this game?
Hehe, four and a half years ago I felt exactly the same, but no one was around to point me in any direction at all, I stumbled aimlessy about, thinking daft things, like Rest was used a lot, better get some recharge in it and other daft things, like Hand Clap looked great and flurry was awesome, and Whirlwind was great on teams....luckily I learned fast (was before I was ill) and I'm still here playing this wonderful game.

What the others say is true, there's a wealth of information on Paragonwiki.com and other player driven sites linked to it to. And this games tutorial and way it guides you at the beginning is great. Just avoid sewer teams and the AE to start and do your starting contact to begin with, heck even solo for a bit if you feel like you would look a fool otherwise, and read all the stuff that pops up in the tutorial and your first contacts missions. Walk before you can run, many people have gone for instant gratification of levels and just completely missed how to play the game in recent times. You will find many old timers on each server willing to help out as althought there is phat lewt in this game, there is not as much emphasis on it till the later game and is not neccessary to do any of the content.

Welcome to City of Heroes, may your stay be as long and enjoyable as mine


 

Posted

Well, as others have directed, go to Paragonwiki.com. There is a lot of source info there, not just on game mechanics but on enemy groups, contacts, task forces, enhancements, badges... lots and lots of info.

But to start with, it sounds like you'll want to look up

Enhancement Diversification
Attack Mechanics
Damage
Status Effects
Purple Patch
Defense
Resistance (Mechanics)

And check out any of the hotlinks provided on those pages to give you further resources to help you learn to min-max.

Once you have an understanding of basic game mechanics, then you will need to understand the powers and precisely what they do. For this, "detailed info" of each power in-game is probably the most current info, but a slightly outdated online compendium of powers exists at:

http://coh.redtomax.com/data/powers/

City of Data is a good resource, just bear in mind that it hasn't been updated since i14 (iirc).

Hope these help.


 

Posted

Well, since the question has mainly been answered, I will only add this: OP, welcome to the game and to the forums!


Also, off topic, ElectroHawk, what game is that in your avatar?


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

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I wondered to, he answered in another thread, its a templar from Aion he said there.....hehe looking at that gets me thinking....no must resist lol


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Partheus View Post
Generally I am a good gamer. I understand game mechanics and numbers and all of that kind of stuff. But I don't understand this game nor can I find the information to understand the powers and what they are capable of. Which brings me to the problem that I don't understand what most people are talking about on the archetype boards. Has anyone got a link to a source that could help me understand how to optimize a character in this game?
Seconding the "Check the wiki" as well as "Don't try."

That and this is such a general question that it's hard to really start. How do you mean you don't understand the powers and what they do? Are we looking at specific powers? Are you coming from another MMO that's confusing you by working differently?

Also, yeah, don't worry about "optimizing" a character. You don't have to be perfect, or near-perfect, to be quite effective in the game. And if you take "optimizing" as some do (must have the ultimate in DPS, capped everything, etc.) you're looking at more in-game expense and complexity than you probably want to when you're initially learning the game.

Other than that, a little more detail on what you're asking would help us answer.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by British Battler View Post
I wondered to, he answered in another thread, its a templar from Aion he said there.....hehe looking at that gets me thinking....no must resist lol
He answered in another thread? He's only got one post ATM. >.< (And if so - templar = more tank-ish gameplay.)


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
He answered in another thread? He's only got one post ATM. >.<
only 1 post????... must...... post..... more......


And yes the Templar is the "tank" of Aion it's slow at first but they can dish out a good amount of damage in the end game and take even more...


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill View Post
He answered in another thread? He's only got one post ATM. >.< (And if so - templar = more tank-ish gameplay.)
Did I miss something MB, wasn't the question directed at ElectroHawk, now I know I'm brain damaged, but that's how I read it


 

Posted

This game was designed to not be "number heavy", and in fact when it was first released the devs considered it a policy NOT to give any of the details about the powers. That's why the power descriptions say things like "Minor" or "Extreme" for damage, and "Fast" or "Slow" for recharge. The idea is, it's supposed to be flexible and broad enough in design that you can't gimp yourself seriously with bad slotting. You might not be as good as you could be, but your character has wide enough range of strengths, and few enough weaknesses, that you can get by.

The truth, of course, is that number crunchers will be number crunchers. Even WITHOUT stats, the players went and gathered them anyway. Now, there are stats built into the game, open your Powers display and select Combat Attributes. This will show you values like damage buffs, your defense and resistance levels, HP and End regen rates, and so on. You can also right click on any Power to bring up its Info Window, and there will be a tab giving it's exact stats, in damage done at your current level, actual recharge times in seconds, and more.

In the Enhancement Screen, to help you anticipate ED, it shows you the % boost each Enhancement is giving you in your powers. Note this is % of the BOOST, not the actual strength of the power, a weak power that has only a little effect will still be weaker at +100% than a strong power. In other words, twice nothing is still nothing. You really need to weight the individual power and the amount of Enhancement you already have against each other, you want to Enhance strong powers first so you get the greatest numeric benefit from each Enhancement slotted. (That is, if you have a power with 20% Defence and one with 3.5% Defense, slot the 20% one first)

In short, ED says that you should never slot more than 3 Enhancements of the same type. 3 Damage Enhancements, for instance, will give you 100% enhancement, or double the base damage. 6 Damage Enhancements, even though you have room in the tray, will be subject to diminished returns, rather strict diminishing returns, as you can really only get about 110%-120%, and no more. And keep in mind that some Enhancement types will "cap" at 60% instead of 100%, or at other values.

Paragonwiki and these boards can be a big help, but those rules of thumb should cover everything unless you are a dedicated min/maxer that always pushes things right up to the cap. And you likely won't be capable of that until you are near 50 anyway. (And you'll need to invest in IOs)


 

Posted

Hmmm...I might have to look into Aion some more then. That power just looks really cool.


Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson

"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
Hmmm...I might have to look into Aion some more then. That power just looks really cool.
I actually have to agree. You know there's been talk about a power that can pull foes to you in this game before.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
Hmmm...I might have to look into Aion some more then. That power just looks really cool.
Haha, that's what I mean, good job I have no spare £ at the moment, hopefully the feeling will wear off before I have spare cash to fund it


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Partheus View Post
Which brings me to the problem that I don't understand what most people are talking about on the archetype boards. Has anyone got a link to a source that could help me understand how to optimize a character in this game?
Each of the AT boards has a Guides section (or the Guides forum will have something similar) where people will post their version of an "optimized" build for COH. However, your intro to the affair leaves you on the wayside, as you don't know what it's being optimized against.

I'd support the general opinion here in that you should roll a few toons to around 15-20 to get a feel for the various classes, so you understand what they can do, how they play, and where your likes/dislikes rest. Then go to the various AT boards and read their opinions, and compare them against your experiences.

There are some tips you can always follow. Be aware of Enhancement Dysfu... er, Diversification. Know how your build can use defense/resistances, either inherently or via power pools (auxiliary powers that everyone can choose from). Decide how you'd like to travel (fly, jump, superspeed, teleport), and how that meshes with your playstyle.

ParagonWiki has some good material for the game overall, and plenty of detailed points - but boning up on the jargon would help you a lot. I believe there's an "acronyms" page there that will help you sort out what people mean by AT, PBAoE, CoP, etc. The shorthand is where you'll probably get ferschmuttered, so that page will guide you nicely. Think of it as Berlitz for CoH.

Cheers, and welcome to the game, officially today six years strong.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by British Battler View Post
Rest was used a lot, better get some recharge in it
I did this. Of course, Rest had a MUCH longer recharge back then than it does now, and I built my concept around it, my character wasn't actually Resting, he had to stop to draw energy out of the air around him to recharge his "batteries" after every combat.

The problem was, while I could get the recharge down, the amount of time the power actually took to work could not be changed. The End rate cannot really be enhanced, it's already close to the cap, and the HP regen rate caps with only one Heal Enhancement. And the cast time was a significant part of the time as well. When the Recharge ended up being reduced to about where I had it from slotting, I gave up on the concept.

I currently keep one Recharge and one Heal in it, which is probably one more slot than everyone else uses.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon View Post
I did this. Of course, Rest had a MUCH longer recharge back then than it does now, and I built my concept around it, my character wasn't actually Resting, he had to stop to draw energy out of the air around him to recharge his "batteries" after every combat.

The problem was, while I could get the recharge down, the amount of time the power actually took to work could not be changed. The End rate cannot really be enhanced, it's already close to the cap, and the HP regen rate caps with only one Heal Enhancement. And the cast time was a significant part of the time as well. When the Recharge ended up being reduced to about where I had it from slotting, I gave up on the concept.

I currently keep one Recharge and one Heal in it, which is probably one more slot than everyone else uses.
Well you could go staminaless, in it put the miracle, numinas and regen proc in it to, go the whole hog, as the work for 120 seconds after the powers stops, there u go...concept realised


 

Posted

Another thing you can do is check out the Mentor Project at the top of this forum for some individualized help in game.


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Global: @Cinder Spawn

 

Posted

Another thing, don't get too concerned about gimping your toon. Try things and test things. Once you've progressed to a certain level and decided you don't like a power you chose, or how you slotted something, you can go to a trainer and switch to a second build. The first time you do this you will have to pick all your powers from level 1 up.

You can't change your AT type, or your Primary or Secondary Powers but you can change which powers from those sets you want, and to some extent change the order in which you picked them. You'll also be able to totally change out your power pools, so if you don't like the travel power you selected, you can change it.

This second build is independent of your first build, meaning you will have to buy new enhancements to fill the slots, but it gives you a second chance to redo your toon's powers.

After the first time you use your second build, you can't go back and make any changes without something called a respec token (Character re-specification)


"The one thing that can stop a full team of MasterMinds dead in its tracks... a doorway!" --Frogfather

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by British Battler View Post
Did I miss something MB, wasn't the question directed at ElectroHawk, now I know I'm brain damaged, but that's how I read it
Maybe. I was still thinking of the OP.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post
Hmmm...I might have to look into Aion some more then. That power just looks really cool.
Wait for the 1.9 patch (unless it's out already.) It's doing a lot of adjusting that'll be really nice - specifically in costs to everything.

You also have to realize going in that you *will* be dealing with PVP in that game. Some quests (including main campaign quests) take you into the Abyss, a pure PVP zone, and most zones after lvl 20 can be entered by the enemy faction via rifts. (Time and level limited, but it's a pretty wide range of levels.)

if those don't bother you, give it a look. I found it quite a bit of fun. I'm just waiting for the 1.9 patch before I renew there. (Six months vet of it from launch, on hiatus.)


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn View Post

Also, off topic, ElectroHawk, what game is that in your avatar?

I was wondering as well - looks pretty freakin' cooool!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon View Post
I actually have to agree. You know there's been talk about a power that can pull foes to you in this game before.
A mini-boss has a power like that in the game Dragon Age: Origins.

(one of the trapped spirits in the Brecilian Forest)

Combating it is a pain in the butt - but the first time I saw him do it I was like

WANT!!!