Missions: underground subway exits
By
Arctic_Princess,
Posted on: 2010-04-23 13:15 in Suggestions and Ideas
Quote:
According to game lore there used to be underground trains and I believe they shut them all down because of CoT incursions.|
Originally Posted by Rodoan
You know those missions that tell us to board a train and go to destinations not normally found on the game map? To the best of my memory, all exit onto an outdoor playing field.
I'd like for the devs to consider adding mission station destinations that are underground or within the basements of buildings. I've ridden several real life rail transports that have such destinations. Some even with mini shopping malls adjacent to the rails. |
I'm sure some of our historians can correct me if I'm wrong, and/or provide more details.
I also think it's wierd how 'Board Train' maps exit onto maps with absolutely no train connection. And would, ideally, be changed, because most Train missions are flipping Defeat Alls on huge outdoor maps. Not fun.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
Quote:
I think they didn't build any subways at all, on Statesman's word, hence all the trams.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
According to game lore there used to be underground trains and I believe they shut them all down because of CoT incursions.
I'm sure some of our historians can correct me if I'm wrong, and/or provide more details. |
The main problem is that a lot of those outdoor maps are re-used in different contexts. Putting some kind of tram depot at the entrance doesn't make very much sense if you're going to Praetoria via a Portal Corp. portal.
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
Agreed the outdoors don't make sense (haha). Since there are no subways maybe the tram could take you to an underground lair or something, still doesn't make much sense since it's a public transportation but at least it has train connection.
I guess I'm thinking of it from the viewpoint of various rail systems I have traveled, where the track can gradually rise and lower depending on destination. The MARTA system in Atlanta, for example, has an underground junction adjacent to Underground Atlanta. But it also has stations above ground.
The CoT lore concern was one I was not familiar with, however, its perfect! Why not open the underground destination only for specific missions for heroes to clean it out of the vermin?
With the number of caves, ancient orenbegan cities and massive sewers under Paragon, there simply isn't room for an underground subway system without causing the whole city to collapse like the Hollows.
Current Published Arcs
#1 "Too Drunk to be Alcoholic" Arc #48942
#2 "To Slay Sleeping Dragons" Arc #111486
#3 "Stop Calling Me"
Quote:
I'm mainly going by what I remember being discussed from an older thread suggesting the same thing as the OP. They explained events that occurred before and during the first Rikti invasion, and it had to do with CoT and Rikti.|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
I think they didn't build any subways at all, on Statesman's word, hence all the trams.
|
I'll admit I could easily be misremembering things, and it would be nice if someone who is up on the subject could confirm or deny my vague recollections.
Quote:
Unfortunately the Paragon Times isn't available on the official site anymore, but I dug it up with the Wayback Machine.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
I'm mainly going by what I remember being discussed from an older thread suggesting the same thing as the OP. They explained events that occurred before and during the first Rikti invasion, and it had to do with CoT and Rikti.
I'll admit I could easily be misremembering things, and it would be nice if someone who is up on the subject could confirm or deny my vague recollections. |
From here, this is what I was referring to:
Quote:
| The 1930s and 1940s brought another problem to the transit systemthat of congestion and traffic due to the increased popularity of the automobile. Many of the sections ran through heavily populated areas, says Mr. Cooper. My dad, who ran the Garment District section in Kings Row during the late 1930s, would complain endlessly about the trafficthe gridlock, youd call it todaythat these trains created. A special commission was created in 1940 to investigate possible solutions to the problem. After much discussion, including serious consideration of creating a subway systema consideration suddenly rejected after special (and mysterious) input from Statesmana commission member named Harold T. Bradbury, a former Chicago transit supervisor, suggested an elevated system. On September 4, 1941, the commission voted unanimously to recommend an elevated railway. Unfortunately, the recommendation was shelved due to the events of December 7. It was not until late 1946 that the recommendation was resubmitted and finally approved by the city. |
Never surrender! Never give up!
Help keep Paragon City alive with the unofficial City of Heroes Tabletop Role Playing Game!
It always seemed odd to board a train, yet arrive via a glowing red square column. Compound that by the fact that you can accidentally fling yourself off the map by touching it at any hieght.
I wonder if we can have two instanced maps that are identical other than thier exit points? Like an "Almost-KR Map1" with glowing red column used for Portal Corps missions and an "Almost KR Map2" with a tram exit used for Train missions.
The list of instanced maps would almost double, depending on how many of those maps are currently used for both things, but the Dev team wouldn't be creating whole new maps, just making tweaked copies and then tying them to missions.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rodoan
You know those missions that tell us to board a train and go to destinations not normally found on the game map? To the best of my memory, all exit onto an outdoor playing field.
I'd like for the devs to consider adding mission station destinations that are underground or within the basements of buildings. I've ridden several real life rail transports that have such destinations. Some even with mini shopping malls adjacent to the rails. |
Speeding Through New DA Repeatables || Spreadsheet o' Enhancements || Zombie Skins: better skins for these forums || Guide to Guides
Quote:
Seeing that, yeah that was definitely one of the points brought up in that old thread. And from what I recall some of them expanded on Statesman's mysterious input with other references. Maybe it was something about bomb shelters during the Rikti invasion. Not sure, but it was about underground construction, Cot, and Rikti.
|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
Unfortunately the Paragon Times isn't available on the official site anymore, but I dug it up with the Wayback Machine.
From here, this is what I was referring to: |
Quote:
*Collapses in a puddle of drool*
|
Originally Posted by Zombie Man
|
Quote:
The problem with outdoor maps isn't context, but rather legacy. The game plain didn't HAVE outdoor maps until I1, whereupon the only outdoor maps were those used in Portal Corps' alternate dimension missions. Now think about that context and think about what the outdoor maps actually look like:|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
The main problem is that a lot of those outdoor maps are re-used in different contexts. Putting some kind of tram depot at the entrance doesn't make very much sense if you're going to Praetoria via a Portal Corp. portal.
|
We come into the map via a red energy square, and the map is cut off by a blue forcefield. This is pretty much exactly how Tina McIntyre explains the dimensional pockets that we visit when we travel to other dimensions. This same mechanic apparently looked innocuous enough to re-use for general-purpose outdoor missions.
Now come I2, and a lot of missions were revised to use outdoor maps even outside of Peregrine Island. Check out any I2 content, though, and you'll notice a recurring statement: "I've called for an emergency forcefield." This is the developers trying to explain that "Hey, you know that blue energy wall thing that stops you from moving out of the instance? THAT'S what this is! Cool, huh?"
Then come I5 and Croatoa, where the whole zone is permanently surrounded by this blue forcefield and all of its spirit world maps are surrounded by it, too. No-one spares a thought to explain why it is there. It just is. It's kind of less a physical barrier and more an "invisible wall" that just happens to be visible, but serves the same purpose of an invisible one - to keep players contained within a specific area.
Then comes CoV and the last alternate dimension legacy is removed. You know how those outdoor maps in City of Heroes kind of LOOK like places we've known in the city, but actually aren't? The buildings are the same, but they're jumbled. That was originally done to make the maps look familiar, yet different. We're on an alternate Earth where things look a lot like they do on Primal Earth, but not quite exactly the same. Well, with City of Villains, the outdoor maps are simply instanced pieces of the overworld with NOTHING AT ALL changed about them, often even retaining the old geometry of a zone after something in the actual zone has been changed, but not updated in the instance.
All that said, I feel we simply need more instanced maps. We have a grand total of between ten and twenty outdoor instances, and more outdoor missions than that from just Unai Kemen. I don't really suggest we should have a unique map for every mission, but we need more by at least SOME stretch.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
Quote:
Ian, that is great! Thanks for taking the time to dig that up! Much as I'd love the underground exits, the counterpoints raised to my suggestion make perfect sense in light of this lore.|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
Unfortunately the Paragon Times isn't available on the official site anymore, but I dug it up with the Wayback Machine.
From here, this is what I was referring to: Quote:
|
And that picture Zombie posted:
You know those missions that tell us to board a train and go to destinations not normally found on the game map? To the best of my memory, all exit onto an outdoor playing field.
I'd like for the devs to consider adding mission station destinations that are underground or within the basements of buildings. I've ridden several real life rail transports that have such destinations. Some even with mini shopping malls adjacent to the rails.