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I don't go SPLAT on my Dark Melee/Super Reflexes, at least the handful of times I played him on +4x8 with bosses, mostly to see if I could (he's mostly retired). I suspect that it's a combination of high hit points (for Super Reflexes), high resistance (for Super Reflexes), and constantly topping up my hit points with Siphon Life. I believe Bill Z Bubba reported no real problems against most enemy factions on his Claws/SR. I'm sure there are a lot of Super Reflexes out there without major problems on +4x8. I think the "two hits and you're dead" thing is overstated in regards to an IO'd out Super Reflexes.|
Originally Posted by Psara
And why are we even talking about SR versus that crap? A couple good boss hits and SPLAT!
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Vanguard tear me apart in seconds on +4x8, of course. I'm sure some other enemy groups would be troublesome as well.
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I agree with Werner. I solo +4/x8 with my FM/SR Fireball build, but I have issues with Vanguard and sometimes Arachnos. I have fewer survival issues on my AV-build as it has Aid Self and Body Mastery, but it takes longer to kill large spawns without Fireball, so I generally stick with the Fireball build. Either way, I don't go SPLAT very often.
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Originally Posted by Werner
I'm sure there are a lot of Super Reflexes out there without major problems on +4x8. I think the "two hits and you're dead" thing is overstated in regards to an IO'd out Super Reflexes.
Vanguard tear me apart in seconds on +4x8, of course. I'm sure some other enemy groups would be troublesome as well. |
On +4/x8, I once herded 7 death mage bosses. One I added the 8th, my health really started to take a nose-dive.
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to herd 8 bosses while clearing out their spawns and moving to the next with a claws/sr? At least I had provoke on that last build...
Anyway:
Council, CoT, Freaks: all a cakewalk for my claws/sr at +4/x8
Arachnos are rough. I can get through them, but not without effort.
Carnies at +0 or +1 are a cakewalk. Higher than that and they start to seriously put the pain on me.
Vanguard? Forget about it.
SR squishy? Ummm, no. Before SOs, yes, painfully. After SOs, not so much. Once you have all three toggles and passives? Doing good. Tack on tough, weave and CJ? Approaching serious mitigation.
IOed to the gills? Near godhood.
IOed to the gills SR plus aid self? Immortal unless you're taking a nap.
My claws/sr currently sits above the softcap on defense. He has 1887 HP. He has ~18% dam-res to S/L. He doesn't die very often.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
On +4/x8, I once herded 7 death mage bosses. One I added the 8th, my health really started to take a nose-dive.
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to herd 8 bosses while clearing out their spawns and moving to the next with a claws/sr? At least I had provoke on that last build... Anyway: Council, CoT, Freaks: all a cakewalk for my claws/sr at +4/x8 Arachnos are rough. I can get through them, but not without effort. Carnies at +0 or +1 are a cakewalk. Higher than that and they start to seriously put the pain on me. Vanguard? Forget about it. SR squishy? Ummm, no. Before SOs, yes, painfully. After SOs, not so much. Once you have all three toggles and passives? Doing good. Tack on tough, weave and CJ? Approaching serious mitigation. IOed to the gills? Near godhood. IOed to the gills SR plus aid self? Immortal unless you're taking a nap. My claws/sr currently sits above the softcap on defense. He has 1887 HP. He has ~18% dam-res to S/L. He doesn't die very often. |
I agree, SR io'd out is far more sturdy than some seem to think. Of course primary plays a role too. Do you use shockwave bill? If so that power mitigates a ton of damage. My favorite SR is a DM/SR, and with him, siphon life adds a ton of survivability.
I haven't heard anyone mention nemesis as a problem on +4/x8. When they start stacking vengeance, they can be murder.
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Arcanaville once stated something about the way I use shockwave...|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
I agree, SR io'd out is far more sturdy than some seem to think. Of course primary plays a role too. Do you use shockwave bill? If so that power mitigates a ton of damage. My favorite SR is a DM/SR, and with him, siphon life adds a ton of survivability.
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Yes, it provides wonderful mitigation, especially against +4s where it becomes knockdown instead of knockback.
As for Nemesis, I haven't run into a mission with them at +4s. It'd be interesting, but I always work backwards against them anyway. Minions first, then LTs, then bosses. Lessens the pain considerably.
Be well, people of CoH.
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You just don't fight Nemesis on a Defence toon, regardless of how over-the-top your Defences are.|
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
I haven't heard anyone mention nemesis as a problem on +4/x8. When they start stacking vengeance, they can be murder.
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Anyway...I'm quite interested what you decided to change for your build to compensate for the BotZ changes Effy.
Fury
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Those tactics don't work as well when you're primarily aoe damage dealer, lol. Or on a team with people who are unaware or don't care about said tactic.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Arcanaville once stated something about the way I use shockwave...
Yes, it provides wonderful mitigation, especially against +4s where it becomes knockdown instead of knockback. As for Nemesis, I haven't run into a mission with them at +4s. It'd be interesting, but I always work backwards against them anyway. Minions first, then LTs, then bosses. Lessens the pain considerably. |
Bottom line is, once the veng starts stacking, a SD or any primarily def reliant secondary toon is dead in short order. My favorite solution for indiscriminate slaugher of nems is my SS/WP brute, the ss lets me hit through veng and wp's layered defenses handle the damage.
But in terms of shockwave, I love that power on my claws toons. Even when it's kb, if you know how to direct it, it's still gold. A very undervalued power imo.
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Originally Posted by Wondering_Fury
You just don't fight Nemesis on a Defence toon, regardless of how over-the-top your Defences are.
Anyway...I'm quite interested what you decided to change for your build to compensate for the BotZ changes Effy. Fury |
On my fm/sd toon, I dropped purples from fireblast and six slotted thunderstrikes to make up for the range defense I was getting from botz. But I'm also using the pvp +3% def unique - I"m betting a lot of the people who are saying the nerf is no big deal are, lol. You can still soft cap without it, but obviously the sacrifices become greater.
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I respeced my FM/SD into the Blaze pool the other day and I was able to obtain 46% to melee, 48% to range and 44.8% to AoE without the PvP IO. I'd think about getting that PvP IO if it weren't so ridiculously expensive and I didn't have so many alts to IO.
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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut
On my fm/sd toon, I dropped purples from fireblast and six slotted thunderstrikes to make up for the range defense I was getting from botz. But I'm also using the pvp +3% def unique - I"m betting a lot of the people who are saying the nerf is no big deal are, lol. You can still soft cap without it, but obviously the sacrifices become greater.
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It's a great IO, but at this point I don't even consider getting another one. I got lucky early on and grabbed one for around 500 mil.
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Originally Posted by Clouded
I respeced my FM/SD into the Blaze pool the other day and I was able to obtain 46% to melee, 48% to range and 44.8% to AoE without the PvP IO. I'd think about getting that PvP IO if it weren't so ridiculously expensive and I didn't have so many alts to IO.
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Pretty much my experience as well.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Anyway:
Council, CoT, Freaks: all a cakewalk for my claws/sr at +4/x8 Arachnos are rough. I can get through them, but not without effort. Carnies at +0 or +1 are a cakewalk. Higher than that and they start to seriously put the pain on me. Vanguard? Forget about it. |
Of course, id say billz build is waaayyyy better than mine. As im running with no fighting pool and no steadfast unique.
I do have aid self though, and with shockwaves knock, that gives me plenty of time to heal up when any hits do get through.
Come botz nerf I will do a respec and elimanate the guassians set from follow up, drop elude and grab tough/weave. If i can fit in FA and PP from the epics I think over all ill have a tougher, more sturdy /SR toon than before.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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Oh we're talking about sucking relative to +4/x8 spawns solo? Okay nevermind me saying you don't need softcapped defense then.
And why are we even talking about SR versus that crap? A couple good boss hits and SPLAT!