City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

No inf limit scrapper

Bill Z Bubba

By Bill Z Bubba,
Posted on: 2010-04-15 15:52 in Scrappers

 

Posted

Quote:
Incorrect, my Post Nerf rebuilt DM/SD currently sits at 2141 hps, softcap Def (tiny bit shy on AoE), 29% S/L Resistance, 97.5% Recharge pre-hasten and 28 hp/sec regen. Now I don't know about you. I'd say that's pretty decent aye?
I bet there's a catch, like lacking the heca proc in Smite or not having maximum healing % in SL.

 

Posted

Off topic question.

Further up thread healing uniques were mentioned and "nerf" was associated with them.
Was there any change to healing uniques im not aware of?
Any recent dev comment on this?

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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf View Post
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary

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Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
Yeah, I like Blasters too.

 

Posted

The healing uniques used too get buffed by being slotted in healing powers etc, i thought this was a valid buff from the uniques. Seems it ain't an i've lost 10 hp a sec an like 0.50 end/sec but i will live. it ain't the end of the world.

@Effy
Effy On Hot Sauce Fire/Cold Corr
Effy On Hot Chilli Fire/Dark Corr
Effy On Heat FM/SD Before FoTM
Effy Unleashed DP/EN Blaster 1st 50 @ Union

 

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Originally Posted by Chaos_String View Post
Katana/WP is easily the most solid scrapper I've played on SO enhancements, and with strong IO slotting it can survive many situations (like being hit by Ghost Widow's Soul Storm, to name just one example) which would kill FM/SD. FM/SD has its corresponding advantages, like superior defense debuff resistance, but the really ubiquitous defense debuffs are lethal typed, so if you can get to 45% lethal defense on a single DA, you just use a second DA when you're facing defense debuffers and cascade failure never happens.

But FM/SD will be offensively superior in every way (ST/AoE/dmg type) compared to Kat/WP.

Although none of my toons are hit hard by the BotZ change, if I were sitting on a high-end FM/SD build, I'd just respec it with the change in mind; post-nerf FM/SD can still be built with an awesome combination of damage output and survivability. I mean, I'd probably still roll a new scrapper every so often ANYWAY (and Kat/WP doesn't disappoint), but I certainly wouldn't shelf my FM/SD because of the BotZ issue.
Nailed it - completely agree.

The botz nerf is lame imo, and very unnecessary, but it doesn't ruin fm/sd. I run mine with the fire epic, and the only thing I had to do was swap out a purple set for a regular IO set to make up some range defense and I lost very little. You could no doubt do the same for an elec/sd.

Kat/WP is a beast, especially survivability-wise, and great on single target, but you're not going to be doing the aoe destruction you get with fm/sd or elec/sd.

The great thing about scrappers and IO's though, is the fact you can take just about any combo and make it pretty nasty if theres no influence limit.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamMasterJMS View Post
Off topic question.

Further up thread healing uniques were mentioned and "nerf" was associated with them.
Was there any change to healing uniques im not aware of?
Any recent dev comment on this?
From what I understood, some uniques and procs weren't working correctly and were set to be fixed, but I didn't think anything besides botz was getting hosed, was I wrong?

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut View Post
From what I understood, some uniques and procs weren't working correctly and were set to be fixed, but I didn't think anything besides botz was getting hosed, was I wrong?
You're not wrong. It's an entire list of procs that were operating in unintended ways that are being fixed. The only difference with the healing uniques is that the effects in question no longer benefit from the enhancement of the powers that they are within.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut View Post
From what I understood, some uniques and procs weren't working correctly and were set to be fixed, but I didn't think anything besides botz was getting hosed, was I wrong?
The only one that has been fixed thus far is the Numina's +Regen/+Recovery. Castle commented that he was unaware of the issue affecting other IOs, but that they would eventually get fixed.

His quote, which can be found here: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...9#post2725249:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Castle View Post
Funny, I've not gotten the bug report for those. Maybe one of the others did. In any case, yes...if they have that same issue, they'll be addressed at some point.

EDIT: Yeah, those have the same issue. Here's a list of all the IO's affected as of today:
Code:
Tempest: Chance for Endurance Drain
Entropic Chaos: Chance to Heal Self
Impervium Armor: Psionic Resistance
Regenerative Tissue: Regeneration
Miracle: +Recovery
Call of the Sandman: Chance to Heal Self
Freebird: Stealth
Unbounded Leap: Stealth
Celerity: Stealth
TimeSpace Manipulation: Stealth
Rectified Reticle: Increased Perception
Deflated Ego: Chance for Recovery Debuff

 

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Originally Posted by Umbral View Post
I have to wonder how everyone and their cousin seems to be shelving their Shield toons simply because they lost a bit of defense to AoE and Ranged. It's not like the BotZ fix (I refuse to call it a nerf because those set bonuses, in all honesty, were way too powerful) has suddenly made Shield completely unplayable. Just reslot yourself a bit to sacrifice some recharge for some more defense and quit crying "doom".
Or just take the hit and don't worry about it! Honestly even if you're not capped, heck even if you JUST had SOs, shield is a bit too strong as is, and has a 3xdps nuke with no drop built in.

 

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Originally Posted by Psara View Post
Or just take the hit and don't worry about it! Honestly even if you're not capped, heck even if you JUST had SOs, shield is a bit too strong as is, and has a 3xdps nuke with no drop built in.
Shields with just SOs sucks.

Virtue: @Santorican

Dark/Shield Build Thread

 

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Originally Posted by Santorican View Post
Shields with just SOs sucks.
Well, "sucks" might be an overstatement, but I guess I don't know, because my Fire/Shield is the only character I've leveled where I've moved out of SOs and into mostly set IOs while still leveling. I did level up a Broad Sword/Shield Defense on mostly SOs, but Parry probably makes any survivability observations almost irrelevant.

But I also don't have the impression that Shields with just SOs is TOO strong. Strong enough to be worth playing, perhaps, but not particularly strong. I'd probably choose something else if it weren't for the end-game IO'd out possibilities.

It's my Katana/Dark that's getting nailed by the IO nerfs. I was apparently taking advantage of quite a few IOs that the devs have decided were overpowered or simply broken. And yeah, my Katana/Dark IS seriously overpowered, at least until I run into big defense debuffs. I wouldn't have done the IO nerfs if I'd been in charge, but I guess I can see where the devs might be coming from.

"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

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Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Well, "sucks" might be an overstatement, but I guess I don't know, because my Fire/Shield is the only character I've leveled where I've moved out of SOs and into mostly set IOs while still leveling. I did level up a Broad Sword/Shield Defense on mostly SOs, but Parry probably makes any survivability observations almost irrelevant.

But I also don't have the impression that Shields with just SOs is TOO strong. Strong enough to be worth playing, perhaps, but not particularly strong. I'd probably choose something else if it weren't for the end-game IO'd out possibilities.

It's my Katana/Dark that's getting nailed by the IO nerfs. I was apparently taking advantage of quite a few IOs that the devs have decided were overpowered or simply broken. And yeah, my Katana/Dark IS seriously overpowered, at least until I run into big defense debuffs. I wouldn't have done the IO nerfs if I'd been in charge, but I guess I can see where the devs might be coming from.
I agree with sanc, it sucks, lol. To take advantage of AAO, you need near or softcapped defenses (or lots of insps). And with AAO's taunt power, you're going to get some aggro, and if you can't deal with it, you're dead. This is obvioulsy most noticeable while leveling up vs large mobs, usually on teams. Obviously once you get shield charge things start to look a lot better, but getting there isn't much fun, imo. Clearly, people play this set for it's late game, IO'd up power.

If you couldn't soft cap shields would you play it? I don't think I would.

 

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My level 50 ElM/SD, not softcapped (that doesn't mean any specific focus on anything else, I just never bothered to finish the build), is by far my most powerful scrapper.

 

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Originally Posted by Cyber_naut View Post
If you couldn't soft cap shields would you play it? I don't think I would.
I wouldn't play it, no.

But as a hypothetical, it's pretty much impossible in today's game. To not be ABLE to soft cap it would require it to start with negative defense, since Shred Monkey has demonstrated soft-capping pure resistance sets. So yeah, of course I wouldn't play it.

But you could ask something like, "Would you play it if the total defense offered by the set were 10% lower?" And no, I wouldn't. Probably not even with it 5% lower, though maybe. Not sure what my cut off is, but it couldn't lose much before I'd give up on the set. All of the sets are in a pretty narrow band, and small changes can make big relative performance differences.

"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Werner View Post
Well, "sucks" might be an overstatement, but I guess I don't know, because my Fire/Shield is the only character I've leveled where I've moved out of SOs and into mostly set IOs while still leveling. I did level up a Broad Sword/Shield Defense on mostly SOs, but Parry probably makes any survivability observations almost irrelevant.

But I also don't have the impression that Shields with just SOs is TOO strong. Strong enough to be worth playing, perhaps, but not particularly strong. I'd probably choose something else if it weren't for the end-game IO'd out possibilities.

It's my Katana/Dark that's getting nailed by the IO nerfs. I was apparently taking advantage of quite a few IOs that the devs have decided were overpowered or simply broken. And yeah, my Katana/Dark IS seriously overpowered, at least until I run into big defense debuffs. I wouldn't have done the IO nerfs if I'd been in charge, but I guess I can see where the devs might be coming from.
Its pretty bad with SOs, the most you'll ever be able to manage is around 25-30% defense to most positions and you'll be dying a lot if you ever decided to solo anything more than x4.

Virtue: @Santorican

Dark/Shield Build Thread

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Santorican View Post
Its pretty bad with SOs, the most you'll ever be able to manage is around 25-30% defense to most positions and you'll be dying a lot if you ever decided to solo anything more than x4.
I was curious, so looking at Mids, these comparisons take all secondary powers except T9s, as well as Tough, Weave, Maneuvers, and Combat Jumping into account. All powers have 4 SOs slotted, which is more than most would put in, but this is just a comparison.
/Shields: 34.2% positional Defense and 33.6 S/L Resistance, 17.6% Res to N/E/F/C/T, and 56.04% DDR. (single stacked AD, Deflection has 2 Res SOs in addition to the 4 Def SOs, True Grit 3 Heal/3 Res SOs. If AD is double-stacked, 73.34 % DDR)
/SR: 43.6% positional Def and 17.9% S/L Resistance, 112.1% DDR, plus the Passive's scaling resistance.
/Invul: 71.55% S/L resistance, 23.9% res to N/E/F/C/T, and 25.7% Def vs all types but Psi, and 12.6% Def vs. Psi, and 50% DDR.
As an aside, Mids is increasing Psi Res when TI is active, and increasing Res to all types when Tough is active. I turned them off when calculating values other than what they should affect. Due to Mids obviously having incongruities, I'm not sure if all numbers are accurate across the board.

Even taking into account the possible Mids incongruities, if I were to be restricted to an SO build I wouldn't be playing a /Shield toon unless I wanted a slightly more survivable Blaster-esqe toon with Mez protection.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
My level 50 ElM/SD, not softcapped (that doesn't mean any specific focus on anything else, I just never bothered to finish the build), is by far my most powerful scrapper.
1)How close to soft capped is it?

2)Is it your most survivable scrapper?

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyber_naut View Post
I agree with sanc, it sucks, lol. To take advantage of AAO, you need near or softcapped defenses (or lots of insps). And with AAO's taunt power, you're going to get some aggro, and if you can't deal with it, you're dead. This is obvioulsy most noticeable while leveling up vs large mobs, usually on teams. Obviously once you get shield charge things start to look a lot better, but getting there isn't much fun, imo. Clearly, people play this set for it's late game, IO'd up power.

If you couldn't soft cap shields would you play it? I don't think I would.
I so wanted to "Love" Shields. I even reserved a good name on my account before Shields was live (as soon as it was announced actually). I have witnessed some pretty amazing things done with IO'ed out Shields characters, but not my own.

When push came to shove, I went back to Super Reflexes. It doesn't get a Damage boost or a HP boost or a nifty attack, but instead you have a set that actually solo's well prior to IO's (better than shields anyway). And that softcap mark will not require me to slot nearly as many IO sets for defense. One SR build I have worked up is able to hit 400% regen with all the extra IOs I could chase.

So, to answer your question, nope, I have even decided I will not play it despite the fact it can softcap.

BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gaidin View Post
As an aside, Mids is increasing Psi Res when TI is active, and increasing Res to all types when Tough is active. I turned them off when calculating values other than what they should affect. Due to Mids obviously having incongruities, I'm not sure if all numbers are accurate across the board.
It sounds like you have PvP mode on in your Mids (which has been the default value since St0n3y took over). I get the same thing when I turn on PvP, but it isn't an incongruity, it's accurate with respect to PvP. Turning it back to PvE mode shows me the expected res values.

 

Posted

1/ 35% melee, 40% ranged and AoE IIRC.

2/ Most definitely, overall. I've had more powerful scrappers for very specific tasks (DM/invul for taking on X S/L AVs in a custom made AE mission, for example), but the ElM/SD is always at top level of mitigation and there's nothing the character can't handle on +4/x8.

Before I played SD, I felt you'd have to be silly to pick anything else for performance. After I played SD on a tanker, I started to feel bad for rolling anything but SD on a melee alt. Now that I've played SD on a scrapper, I don't think I'll ever reroll another scrapper (unless new shiny things change that). It's just so over the top and I can understand why so many people want to defend it, it's fun to be über. I just want Dual Blades/Shield now.

 

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Quote:
/Invul: over-capped S/L resists(81.55%), 33.9% res to N/E/F/C/T, and 25.7% Def vs all types but Psi, and 12.6% Def vs. Psi, and 80% DDR.
S/L is at 70% and DDR at 50%.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
1/ 35% melee, 40% ranged and AoE IIRC.

2/ Most definitely, overall. I've had more powerful scrappers for very specific tasks (DM/invul for taking on X S/L AVs in a custom made AE mission, for example), but the ElM/SD is always at top level of mitigation and there's nothing the character can't handle on +4/x8.
You handle +4/x8 with only 35% melee defense? You ARE uber.

If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------

The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sailboat View Post
You handle +4/x8 with only 35% melee defense? You ARE uber.
sig worthy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf View Post
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
Yeah, I like Blasters too.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
1/ 35% melee, 40% ranged and AoE IIRC.

2/ Most definitely, overall. I've had more powerful scrappers for very specific tasks (DM/invul for taking on X S/L AVs in a custom made AE mission, for example), but the ElM/SD is always at top level of mitigation and there's nothing the character can't handle on +4/x8.

Before I played SD, I felt you'd have to be silly to pick anything else for performance. After I played SD on a tanker, I started to feel bad for rolling anything but SD on a melee alt. Now that I've played SD on a scrapper, I don't think I'll ever reroll another scrapper (unless new shiny things change that). It's just so over the top and I can understand why so many people want to defend it, it's fun to be über. I just want Dual Blades/Shield now.
There's 'nothing' you can't handle on a non-soft capped sd? I gotta call BS.

I run into trouble against several enemy groups on my pimped out/softcapped fire/sd that are better handled on other toons. And for pure, all around survivability, sd is absolutely not the best choice, especially if you're not softcapped.

 

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Originally Posted by Nihilii View Post
S/L is at 70% and DDR at 50%.
Indeed. Thanks to Chaos String for pointing out the PVP setting in Mids. Once I changed that all is well with the world again. I edited the original post to correct the values.

 

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Here is my contribution to fm/sd without BoTZ. I'm 0.8% from softcap to range, other than that it's a good build. OP I suggest just reworking the build.

Code: 
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1420;727;1454;HEX;|
|78DA9D93CB6F12411CC767D9A59465975DA4D8963E287D01A5A5A57AE8236AA2AD0|
|6D326B5D41EB48F6C616C499012E0A03713A389C693CF9337ADFA2718FF34ADF87B|
|0C44AF6EE0FB9999FDBD66E6B79B8FD62C219E5C135AF846D56B360F8BA58657AFC|
|B867FD33BAE949CC2C3BA2C95BCA3AA1CBB55685403428878C7E4705356A5CCDDAC|
|C8C6631E27BAAFD6E403596BCA5CF1A422ABE5CE3452A89DC886ACB5729D81B5757|
|A5A8510AD9A6C364D9A14EB52966DB57E7CD2AAD48ED96A437A759844D6EB9552EE|
|FA6919927ACD16241F80AA32F07F8AE5D1D3F68BAC4F88BC30A709C914234D989C2|
|1CC1E82654A983640232F43C4347CE3730153C2D7A76160A31F1016C6A28EEF4260|
|AEB1B94F63F31E97C1E6CFA00A5D55A1738AE93DC63EE33E21758F7140E8012F3F8|
|715FEB4C078E3B014509902595AEAFD0736941264032DB8023074612A3E07E790AA|
|22F405F69B13D637DAB6F595103E637C26B89F083EF0B2D94BD8714A1280258793F|
|89D5DDAA87B978E67F40ECD46B7096345C60EE1057845389011B942B12F2C335608|
|17970803AB845E308FAA24D10FB4D4F79AF186CDDFB3F95BC2E83BAE1D4A8DD15DB|
|4452C49D53AB0D4AF8EB13F4665BE84D883EA24064B6415F718478461C92813E6F8|
|CA74F01A525D317499F694CA13320B84B945C6258201E6236A0323615A9A711826C|
|326CC8608F316C1826A132A49E22A0C4C3156D0307D729D307B9B909FA4D222603E|
|AE7632DEA62398F8C9F8C510D4A293E7DCE6BFF9E8A0B429D54653E780A8C870DF6|
|6B061D3A2A8A3F299A5B9B3CE2053967DF42CDFC73CDFC73CDF479EEF6322808DC5|
|AEB9397275C1754135E502E6191079FC3E86C4B0D1FD3CE1078FD8F87B254811B70|
|CF531C292464609A3FB7DB6836ED7E17F9FEF56275C70DB04DD41D902D17671B487|
|B28FD3031C79383A4229E1B4FDC3EA14E02C615DCB282B28AB2831ACEF155A06F0E|
|30BA15828364A18C5417151A22871948F28ED3F89DBED80|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|