Quote:
Yeah, but who cares? You're saying they went to extra trouble just to deny an advantage in a situation where it doesn't matter if you HAVE that advantage or not? Why not just fire it anyway if it doesn't change the outcome one way or the other?|
Originally Posted by Talen_Lee
The issue is a little more nuanced than that.
Yes, they could make it fire off on you, but then it wouldn't be able to know if you killed the guy or not. Yes, they want to make sure that the guy doesn't die before the demoralize fires. Why? Because you don't need help soloing when you can one-shot kill dudes. |
I think it's far more likely the whole "doesn't work when you kill the target" is simply a byproduct of how they chose to implement the power. Just as is the auto-rez effect. Some of you may appreciate that this worked out to force you into some trade-off decision between maybe using Build-Up or not, but it's also a very "gamey" decision. Personally I'd prefer it if it actually made some logical sense. It's scary NOT to kill someone, but....
Enemy 1: "Grrrrrk!" *thud*
Enemy 2: "Holy cow! Fred just took a sword in the back!"
Enemy 3: "Nope, it's okay. It killed him outright. He didn't suffer."
Enemy 2: "You sure?! There's like... a lot of blood!"
Enemy 3: "Yeah, relax. It's no big deal really. So... to battle then? It's almost time for Jeopardy so let's get this over with."
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
Quote:
Placate
|
Originally Posted by Zem
It's scary NOT to kill someone, but....
Enemy 1: "Grrrrrk!" *thud* Enemy 2: "Holy cow! Fred just took a sword in the back!" Enemy 3: "Nope, it's okay. It killed him outright. He didn't suffer." Enemy 2: "You sure?! There's like... a lot of blood!" Enemy 3: "Yeah, relax. It's no big deal really. So... to battle then? It's almost time for Jeopardy so let's get this over with." |
"Hmm, I guess I'm not as omniscient as I thought" -Gavin Runeblade.
I can be found, outside of paragon city here.
Thank you everyone at Paragon and on Virtue. When the lights go out in November, you'll find me on Razor Bunny.
It's possible there was another consideration affecting the decision to implement the demoralize effect in the way it was. If the effect came from the Stalker it's possible it would generate aggro. Most debuffs do. Now I think it would be possible to implement the effect in such a way that it wouldn't generate aggro or break placate. Granting a power to the mob and having the mob cast it avoids the problem entirely though.
I suspect it was simply done according to concept. The fear radiates from the victim of the attack, not the attacker. It is the sight of an ally struck down that affects morale. It's just strange that a power whose very name suggests a one-shot kill... has a lesser effect when it actually does one-shot kill an enemy. Why, after all, would a group of enemies be demoralized when my stalker barely scratches an AV with a surprise attack?
One should think they might actually laugh instead and gain a bonus to attack.
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
|
I have always thought of this as a power that stalkers should have had since day one. Its a very nice addition that helps the team. The way I use it is not as an opener but more so right after the action starts on a team so they get a slight breather after the initial alpha that the brute or mastermind might take. As the others have said it only works on live targets but it can work on dead targets too but only if they rez. I see it work like this on freakshow tanks and wailers and Valkerie.
Bump and Grind Bane/SoA
Kenja No Ishi Earth/Empathy Controller
Legendary Sannin Ninja/Pain Mastermind
Entoxicated Ninja/PSN Mastermind
Ninja Ryukenden Kat/WP Scrapper
Hellish Thoughts Fire/PSI Dominator
Thank You Devs for Merits!!!!
Quote:
If it triggered on a kill, you couldn't do the thing where one enemy is standing a bit apart and the others are facing away from him, and when you shank him the others don't even notice (the fear/debuff would agg them anyway). It's not reliable, but it's fun when it happens and I'd hate to see it go.
|
Originally Posted by Zem
It's just strange that a power whose very name suggests a one-shot kill... has a lesser effect when it actually does one-shot kill an enemy.
|
Quote:
You won't. I'd consider it unlikely they will change AS at this point. There's just not a big enough issue with the way it works now, quirky as it is.
|
Originally Posted by Ben_Arizona
If it triggered on a kill, you couldn't do the thing where one enemy is standing a bit apart and the others are facing away from him, and when you shank him the others don't even notice (the fear/debuff would agg them anyway). It's not reliable, but it's fun when it happens and I'd hate to see it go.
|
Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer
Join The X-Patriots on Virtue!
Quote:
I don't understand your dilemma. This is such an easy decision for me.|
Originally Posted by trendee
It is a tactical decision, true, but only because of the incentive structure. Which I am trying to argue is flawed =/
(talking pve here) When the stalker is not taking out a healer/buffer, but focusing on the tank to get off an AS, I feel like it is pidgeon holing the stalker into a pure DPS role, instead of a surgical striker. I'm not seeing why this should be a decision for me. If it wasn't for demoralize, I would definitely take out the support targets. With demoralize, I'm deciding between support and tank. It seems as if the powers design is incentivizing tank targetting. Why? I would buy the argument that it is a bonus for tough enemies, but I feel like that wasn't the design. I feel like it was to add some team benefit for an otherwise solo centric class. |
Dangerous boss, AS him, help the team with Demoralize.
Dangerous minion/lt, AS him, help the team the same way.
Example: Yesterday I was on the cape mission with 1000 longbow. 2 brutes, 3 stalkers, 2 MMs, 1 corr. I was AS'ing the Nullifiers since they can make Brutes' lives hell (and everybody else's, but especially the aggro soakers). The others stalkers were focusing on the wardens. We got wiped twice, because on an 8-man team there were a lot of nullifiers, I couldn't kill them all by myself.
Then I asked the other stalkers to focus on the Nullis too. Things went smooth as silk.
On an ITF, you can always AS the boss and get demoralize, since surgeons are so weak you'll kill them with 2 regular attacks later, after all you'll be level 35+ and well slotted (at least I expect so).
Sappers depend. If you have a Dark Armor toon (or other with end drain resistance) tanking/grabbing aggro or someone mezzing them since they're minions and are susceptible to anything, you can AS a boss to get Demoralize and kill them later with your regular attacks. If you're on a melee only team with no end drain protection and no controls/debuffs, just AS one, if there's another placate him and use some critical, they're so weak after all...
You're helping the team the same way after all. Even Brutes have to make decisions when playing. One of the Brute experts in the Repeat Offenders (Smurphy) once wrote that it doesn't matter if there's an AV in front of him, if there's a Longbow Nullifier he'll kill the Nulli first.
If you don't wanna make decisions play a Stone/Ice tanker and turn into a taunt/control bot (even then I think I'd choose targets a lot of times).
Quote:
I wouldn't expect them to, just noting a reason against those arguing for a change.
|
Originally Posted by Zem
You won't. I'd consider it unlikely they will change AS at this point. There's just not a big enough issue with the way it works now, quirky as it is.
|
I guess not being able to one shot everything means I should learn to play and not say anything. I'll just be keeping my mouth shut in the stalker forum then.
Edit: Or the spawn is an ambush and you didn't notice the sapper on his way in, which can happen. If the spawn isn't an ambush and you didn't notice the sapper, why not? You're invisible until you strike and you should be evaluating the spawn for prime targets anyway.