Will I miss Executioner's Shot?

mind probe doesn't do KB so nfc what you're talking about there. its not a bad attack, especially for something that goes into unstop that doesn't have psi res/defense.

however, for a blapping set, no its not the best, but it requires you to be in melee to get the most out of its powers.

although slotting for s/l defense is basically just as survivable as slotting for range, is much easier to do especially since botz nerf, and allows you to slot your ranged attacks for rech or something else(and can save afew slots) instead of having to 6 slot everything with tstrikes.

I didn't list the powers as 'melee attacks', a showed a list of powers within the two power sets that function perfectly fine in melee range. Also, Mind Probe doesn't do Knockback... have you even played the set or are you just forming an opinion while reading numbers on paper?

As for Bullet Rain not being a Melee attack, sure.. however.. I guess you're never player a Fire Blapper.. one word Fireball.. it and Bullet Rain function the same where as they center around the target.

Allow me to paint you a picture, Teleport into a mob spawned for x6. Open with a Flash Freeze, followed up by Concentration -> Drain Psyche -> Hail of Bullets -> Psychic Shockwave. Finishing off with a Bullet Rain if needed. Mob deleted.

Unstoppable is a very specific event that your other psychic attacks can already take care of. Mind Probe is a bad attack because your ranged attacks do better damage and have the advantage of being ranged. It has nothing to offer that the other psychic powers do not.

I'm not sure where I'm getting the idea it does KB from either. I think his slotting confused me.

You have 3 melee attacks. one of which isn't worth picking, one which is very good, and one which is situational and probably not worth it if you picked stamina instead. I would not make my entire build focus around having melee defense for one, possibly two, good attacks, while the rest of my build would probably favor ranged quite a deal more.

You are still going to get hit with ranged attacks if you only slot for S/L. Ranged Defense is marginally better because you can stay out of melee, but then, it's very easy to pick Ice Armor so I don't particularly see the reason *not* to get it. I wouldn't only focus on one or the other though, as you will leave yourself open to attacks, which is sort of the anti-thesis for building for defense. If you're okay with having that hole, more power to you, but that doesn't mean it isn't there.

BotZ doesn't stop you from building for ranged defense, though it is one of the reasons it was so easy to soft-cap. That said, you don't *need* soft capped defenses either, 25% alone will make a very noticeable difference in your survival, and I can achieve that on any blaster without undo sacrifices.

Where is this several? Hail of Bullets is the only attack requiring melee range. One power does not several make. If you're referring to MM, then I've already explained this repeatidly

And no, there are not a "few", there are quite a number of them, including many control attacks which are probably one of the primary reasons you'd want to dodge attacks in the first place.

*EDIT* - My position is not that S/L will not help you, but that it will not cover everything. Ranged doesn't either, though it is easier to stay out of melee defense and rely entirely on ranged than it is to hope that nothing without an S/L component is ever aimed at you.

You should be going after both, *primarily* because Ice Armor is so easy to get and offers such a large bonus.

...Fireball is also a ranged attack. Is your point that you can use them in melee, so you should? Or that it's easier to hit multiple targets if they're all ganged up on you? You know you can just throw the fireball into the middle of the spawn for the same effect right? There's no real reason stating that these have to be used in melee range, and I can't figure out why you seem to insist that they should be.

And I refuted your list by how useful each power is. Yes, I understand they are melee attacks, but that doesn't automatically make them useful either.

Hail of Bullets isn't up every spawn. Neither if Flash Freeze or Drain Psyche. So yeah, that's a great tactic, but only if you want to wait 30 seconds between spawns.

s/l defense protects against ranged attacks so long as they have one of the components, which most do. as i said, its much easier to do s/l which is just as survivable, especially if you get close. 4 slots in melee as apposed to (nerfed) botz and 6 slotted tstrikes, which are needed to soft cap (have yet to see a softcapped blaster build that didn't have em). botz nerf doesn't stop form building range, but it made it much harder to get something that will make a difference.

assuming you slot for s/l and use the rest of what you have to slot for rech (which there are serveral builds on teh forums that did this, mine included) all of that is up every spawn.

perhaps this is where the dispute is since this argument is entirely based on playstyle. s/l covers enough to be plenty survivable, for instance in melee to get a decent drain psyche so anything that does get through will get regen'd quickly, not to mention HF and hibernoob for the more dangerous stuff.


and ES still sucks

There. Fixed your rather obvious typo.

My point is if your playstyle revolves around staying in melee range, and you have the defense/utility powers to survive in melee then there's absolutely no reason you can't use targeted AoE attacks like Bullet Rain/Fireball, hell you can even throw in a Single Target ranged attack here and there while in melee range. Using said powers doesn't cause any negative effects. So why couldn't you use them in melee?

Edit: I'm done.. I think we've strayed far enough off topic from poor Tux's original question.

Heh, while I admire the effort, you are playing a very challenging game if you are going to correct all of *my* typos.

No it's not. Even if you managed to get 500% recharge, the most you could lower a 120 second cool down too is 24 seconds. Nevermind that 500% recharge by yourself is impossible, 24 seconds between spawns is bad. You will need to rely on other abilities.

AoE Ranged attacks still check for ranged (unless they specifically say they don't). That's why you're often able to neglect AOE defense to a degree.

I was rushing though, so I won't pretend the list is perfectly accurate.

I'm interested in finding the source of this information, as a cursory review of City of Data seems to contradict it. For example, Flamethrower, Neutron Bomb, Ball Lightning, Frost Breath, and Psychic Tornado all show as AoE only and their damage type, with no ranged component to check against. If I'm misunderstanding City of Data then that's another thing entirely.

Mmm, considering I used Mids, this is probably correct. I trust Red Tomax over mids easily.

It does cut my pretty list down rather significantly, but I still think the point is prevalent; S/L isn't gonna cover everything. It probably covers 'enough'.

Yeaaah, the list is too inaccurate. I'm going to go through Red Tomax and make it right some time tomorrow. For now I sleep.

Very few ranged holds or stuns have a S/L component, and I tend to find those are the most dangerous things a Blaster can face since they prevent you from running away or using any defensive / healing powers. Granted, some also lack a Ranged component and are Psi only, but many do count as Ranged. If you are actually softcapped then even mezzed you may be able to survive since many of the really damaging attacks are affected by S/L defense, but in general (assuming I'm going to be fighting all factions rather than picking only certain ones) I'd rather have 30-35% Ranged defense than 45% S/L defense unless I planned to enter melee range... I'll get hit more often but spend a lot less time mezzed, which means I can rely on movement and Aid Self to keep me alive.

Though if I wanted to make a Blaster for farming or for fighting x8 spawns, S/L defense would be the way to go... but said Blaster would be more limited on what groups he could safely fight.


It's also sad that the tier 2 blast has a lower DPA than the tier 1. But the fact remains that you have to have three single target attacks to make a seamless chain, Piercing Rounds recharges way too slow to replace Executioner's in that chain, and Dual Pistols has a long redraw so adding an attack from your secondary is problematic. That makes Pistols -> Dual Wield -> Pistols -> Executioner's the best option. Swapping in Empty Clips instead of Executioner's causes a huge DPS drop against single targets, and the long redraw means using most melee attacks will also drop your DPS.

So yes, ES is a bit crappy, but the other options are worse unless you want to be in melee a lot and that's usually bad for weapon sets.

That is what most of use are talking about, using Pistols in melee range. So S/L would be preferred for that due to have 2 PBAoE attacks and a +regen/recov.

I figure I should have a decent ST chain with Pistols --> Dual Wield --> PR --> Pistols (very roughly) amidst all my AoE madness, and thanks everyone for assuring me that I'm not *gimping* my build for not taking ES.

Oh, I enjoyed reading all the comments guys, so no worries and thanks again.

And with regards to farming, even though I wouldn't pick this as my main toon for doing so, I think an S/L capped DP/MM could farm the BM map just fine.

Too true (Sidenote: Do all the demons (i.e Infernal's group) have attacks that have a S/L component?

i believe so, im relatively sure fire sword has a smashing component to it though fire blast is all fire.