No Poison for Defenders, Corruptors, and Controllers?
By
Biowraith,
Posted on: 2010-04-05 21:48 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
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Not exactly. The problem I believe is that noxious gas has a different strength for the debuffs depending on which tier you put it on. The debuffs are stronger on a tier 3 then a tier 1. It works differently then ally targeted debuffs which always have the same effect regardless of who it's on.
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Originally Posted by konshu
If you ask me, the simplest and best thing to do with the Poison tier 9 - Noxious Gas - is to make it PBAoE on self.
Essentially it would be like Choking Cloud but with the power of a rad debuff aura. Okay, so ... problem solved! Now let's get this proliferated already!!!  <Emits noxious gas till Poison is proliferated.> |
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
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From my perspective, you don't really need to change the name. I mean, Spines already has toxic effects, other power sets have poison powers, etc.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I, for one, would vote for simply changing the set's name to "Chemistry" and porting it to any and all ATs after sufficient changes to the T9. 3 out of the 9 powers can't be said to Poisons anyway.
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My first Poison toon is likely to be a cute monster that has Poison powers because it is a monster, but it has decided to fight for good.
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Well, that's not a difficult problem to overcome. Just consider "self" to be equivalent to the tier 3 or whatever gives the highest debuffs.|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Not exactly. The problem I believe is that noxious gas has a different strength for the debuffs depending on which tier you put it on. The debuffs are stronger on a tier 3 then a tier 1. It works differently then ally targeted debuffs which always have the same effect regardless of who it's on.
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If the power is centered on the caster, then the caster will also get the aggro from the affected mobs. So since there is increased risk, the reward should match appropriately.
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Fine then, is it going to be a toggle, or click power? If a toggle, how much end drain? If a click power, can it be used on others or just yourself? It can't take range enhancements if your making it a self centered aura (heh an arrogant aura). What aspects of the power under the hood might cause problems because of this change? If a toggle, what about balance issues? Should it still have a chance for an unresistable hold? If not, what will it have? As you can see, it's not just a case of "make it self targeted". There are many more aspects that would have to be worked on.
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Originally Posted by konshu
Well, that's not a difficult problem to overcome. Just consider "self" to be equivalent to the tier 3 or whatever gives the highest debuffs.
If the power is centered on the caster, then the caster will also get the aggro from the affected mobs. So since there is increased risk, the reward should match appropriately. |
"The danger is not that a particular class is unfit to govern. Every class is unfit to govern." Lord Acton
Madam Enigma's History
Quote:
To me it's a simple issue: make it self-targeted.|
Originally Posted by Madam_Enigma
Fine then, is it going to be a toggle, or click power? If a toggle, how much end drain? If a click power, can it be used on others or just yourself? It can't take range enhancements if your making it a self centered aura (heh an arrogant aura). What aspects of the power under the hood might cause problems because of this change? If a toggle, what about balance issues? Should it still have a chance for an unresistable hold? If not, what will it have? As you can see, it's not just a case of "make it self targeted". There are many more aspects that would have to be worked on.
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It should be a click power, not a toggle. It's a tier 9 / nuke. Are there any tier 9s that are toggles?
There would be no range enhancements, as it would be PBAoE on self.
While I'd leave the fine details of balance management to the devs, I see no reason to drop the minor chance for hold.
I'm not sure why there should be a big problem with it. It seems pretty easy to me.
Just think about how the power was justified for a Mastermind, then translate that to a Defender or Corruptor. If anything, because the power is oriented on the caster, and not on a disposable pet, it should be stronger than it was on the MM. This could be handled in many different ways, but I think the most likely way would be to give it a slightly lower end cost and/or a slightly faster recharge than what is given to MMs.
But I think the power is going to be largely in balance if you just make it a PBAoE centered on the caster, at the same 125% strength given to MM tier 3 pets.
I really dont see whats so villianous about poisoning someone and making them abit sick compared with blowing their brains out with Full Auto etc
This just popped into my head if they were to change poison to alchemy for heroes.
Noxious Gas -> Transmutation
Toggle: All of your powers reverse effects. (Your foe debuffs become ally buffs and your healing/buff powers do damage/debuff foes.)
Thoughts? It seems very far fetched... But it fits conceptually, and I think it could be very cool if balanced properly.
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I'd be okay with Noxious Gas just becoming ally targeted with the tier3 pet values. Toggle or click, I don't mind.
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Are there any other tier 9s that are ally-targeted?|
Originally Posted by Silas
I'd be okay with Noxious Gas just becoming ally targeted with the tier3 pet values. Toggle or click, I don't mind.
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I suspect the soloists would cry out en masse if this was done.
I believe the best course is to make it a PBAoE on the caster, using tier 3 pet values.
It could just be enemy targeted, target an enemy, he infects anyone he's near, if he's too far away, it ends up a wasted debuff on a lone enemy.
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If you have to ask, you can't afford it.
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Originally Posted by Premonitions
How much for Loveable Curmudgeon?
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I'm not sure exactly how much outcry there'd be to be honest. With the single target debuffs & mez you'd still be able to solo quite well, just maybe not to the +4/x8 level of performance. Also there is precedent for ally-only tier 9s: see Empathy and Pain Domination. Some sets just aren't the ideal soloers, and as long as those sets can still cope with base difficulty settings I think most people accept that.|
Originally Posted by konshu
Are there any other tier 9s that are ally-targeted?
I suspect the soloists would cry out en masse if this was done. I believe the best course is to make it a PBAoE on the caster, using tier 3 pet values. |
Personally, my suggestion would be a "patch" type power, similar to tar patch, liquefy, etc. Basically looking like a triggered poison trap. Presumably that'd be more work to create though, and I wouldn't mind it just changing to ally-targeted.
I would say Poison is to Radation Emission as Empathy is to Thermal Radiation.
What folks are probably looking for is more Empathy to Pain Domination. A name like "Chemicals" or "Neurotoxins" might take away some of the connotations of "Evil".
Poison hasn't even been proliferated to Corruptors yet, though. Give it time, there's still quite a few Power Sets left to go, although some Archetypes are going to be running out soon.
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