Help me spend my money
By
Cade Lawson,
Posted on: 2010-04-04 10:33 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
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See the link to Father Xmas' $1200 gaming build in the sig of any of his posts.
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Originally Posted by Zubenelgenubi
All,
I know this comes up a lot, but my search-fu is weak and pathetic. I'm going to be buying a brand-new gaming rig soon. I've saved up $1200 so far and may have another $300-500 or so to spend before it's all said and done. I want a rig that will last me a long time. i.e. not become gaming obsolete any time soon. But I also want good value. (Yes, I plan to max out the RAM.) It's been... 7 years since I bought a new machine, and I just don't know what's out there. Can anyone recommend a few good options? CPU's, manufacturers, etc.? Thanks in advance!  |
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Seconded. This is an excellent place to start. If you want to customize it, let us know. For your budget, you could do a few extra things, but if you want something straight-forward and capable, just buy what's on the list.
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Originally Posted by Human_Being
See the link to Father Xmas' $1200 gaming build in the sig of any of his posts.
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So this Newegg site is where one can buy components and assemble them into a fully-functional computer, yes?
I'm very leery of trying this myself. I've never built my own computer. How difficult is it?
Or, perhaps better yet, is there a good place where I can pick components ala carte like Father Xmas does and have someone assemble them for me and test it out before shipping it?
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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Newegg is the site. Besides good shipping-and-return customer service and leading prices by virtue of their sales volume, the big thing is the accumulation of customer-rated reviews for different components. You get to learn from other people who discovered something (good or bad) about the item you're interested in. I usually follow a 75% 5-egg rating threshold for components; though I allow some flexibility for things that are normally finicky like motherboards.|
Originally Posted by Zubenelgenubi
So this Newegg site is where one can buy components and assemble them into a fully-functional computer, yes?
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| I'm very leery of trying this myself. I've never built my own computer. How difficult is it? |
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| Or, perhaps better yet, is there a good place where I can pick components ala carte like Father Xmas does and have someone assemble them for me and test it out before shipping it? |
[QUOTE=Zubenelgenubi;2753257]So this Newegg site is where one can buy components and assemble them into a fully-functional computer, yes?[quote]
Yes. And they often have free shipping and combo deals - check the bottom of the pages of the various components.
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Very simple. Here's one quick walkthrough. Actually, just google "how to build a PC," you'll find guides (admittedly of varying quality, some text, some video,) generally "if it doesnt' fit, make sure it's turned the right way. If it is and doesn't fit, it doesn't go there." | I'm very leery of trying this myself. I've never built my own computer. How difficult is it? |
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| Or, perhaps better yet, is there a good place where I can pick components ala carte like Father Xmas does and have someone assemble them for me and test it out before shipping it? |
a screw... DRIVER...? 
Point taken, though. Thanks so much to all of you. This is really, really helpful stuff. Sooooo much better than all my old, pointless discussions about the costs of base items and whether or not badge numbers should be nerfed.
My (hopefully) last question concerns the operating system. After assembling the components, do I just buy a Windows 7 box at a brick-and-mortar and install the OS myself?
(I am actually not as technically inept as I may sound here. Im just trying to be really, really careful. This is the first really big financial expenditure for my family in a very long time and I want to avoid pitfalls. Real Life comes without an undo button, after all.)
Point taken, though. Thanks so much to all of you. This is really, really helpful stuff. Sooooo much better than all my old, pointless discussions about the costs of base items and whether or not badge numbers should be nerfed.
My (hopefully) last question concerns the operating system. After assembling the components, do I just buy a Windows 7 box at a brick-and-mortar and install the OS myself?
(I am actually not as technically inept as I may sound here. Im just trying to be really, really careful. This is the first really big financial expenditure for my family in a very long time and I want to avoid pitfalls. Real Life comes without an undo button, after all.)
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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Actually... about the only things that needs screwing in, depending on case, are the power supply (if not shipped preinstalled to the case) and mainboard to the standoffs. And even then I think there are some toolless connectors (haven't seen one myself, but I believe I've seen them mentioned.) Often hard drives, CD drives, case sides, etc. are toolless. Memory clips in, the CPU clips in, fans typically clip or otherwise fasten in - it's pretty easy.|
a screw... DRIVER...?
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Originally Posted by Zubenelgenubi
My (hopefully) last question concerns the operating system. After assembling the components, do I just buy a Windows 7 box at a brick-and-mortar and install the OS myself?
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7 Home Premium is fine for most folks. Pro is as high as I'd usually go. I don't tend to find much use for Ultimate - but even if you decide to pick up Ultimate, it's cheaper to go OEM packaging than to go with retail. (Example, newegg, Win7 Ultimate - Full package, $284, Upgrade, $194, OEM, $175.)
Only thing you lose is (a) a box (and even then, you have a regular-sized-and-shaped DVD case) and (b) support from Microsoft - though you still get patches, updates and service packs from them via windows update, as normal. (I don't think retail versions get exceptionally long support anyway before you start getting told to "check the newsgroups" or asked to pay money.)
Oh, and you do, with OEM, have to specify 64 bit if you want it (you do.) Retail comes with both 32 and 64 bit versions (two disks.)
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Sure! To relax with after you've finished putting your new computer together.|
Originally Posted by Zubenelgenubi
a screw... DRIVER...?
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Oh wait! You thought I meant a...<.<
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| My (hopefully) last question concerns the operating system. After assembling the components, do I just buy a Windows 7 box at a brick-and-mortar and install the OS myself? |
The only marginally tricky bit to building your own PC is the part where you need to hook up all the case lights and the power button to the motherboard. In my experience the cords from the case are usually labeled differently from what the motherboard manual gives you and you sometimes need to puzzle out what goes where on the 15x2 block of pins.
Man, I hated that part. You're not going to damage anything if you hook up something wrong but it's a fairly annoying process.
Only other thing to be aware of is be careful situating the CPU and make absolutely sure that it's in there correctly before strapping on the heat sink/fan. It's a delicate (and expensive part) and you want to make sure not to damage it by accident. It's much harder to screw that up now than it used to be, but it's still worth being extra careful.
[QUOTE=Frost;2754636]The only marginally tricky bit to building your own PC is the part where you need to hook up all the case lights and the power button to the motherboard. In my experience the cords from the case are usually labeled differently from what the motherboard manual gives you and you sometimes need to puzzle out what goes where on the 15x2 block of pins.[/qutoe]
One reason to look into Asus mainboards - some have an external block you plug everything in to (MUCH easier!) and then plug that block into the mainboard. It's a nice little feature.
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o.O| Only other thing to be aware of is be careful situating the CPU and make absolutely sure that it's in there correctly before strapping on the heat sink/fan. It's a delicate (and expensive part) and you want to make sure not to damage it by accident. It's much harder to screw that up now than it used to be, but it's still worth being extra careful. |
I don't think it's been possible to mis-situate a CPU for years, honestly. Intel CPUs, for instance, have a pair of notches on the sides near one end - if you try to set it in backwards or rotated, it just doesn't sit in the socket (and IIRC the 1366s are rectangular instead of square, so it'd look even more off-kilter if it were sideways.) AMD has pins missing in a non-symmetrical fashion (see the picture of Socket AM2+ here) so the CPU won't even sit in properly if it's not in correctly.
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All very true. My statement was mostly just a word of caution to make sure it's going in the way it's supposed to go and a re-iteration of your point not to try to jam anything in if it doesn't seem to fit. Note, I did mention it's MUCH harder to screw it up now than it used to be.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
o.O
I don't think it's been possible to mis-situate a CPU for years, honestly. Intel CPUs, for instance, have a pair of notches on the sides near one end - if you try to set it in backwards or rotated, it just doesn't sit in the socket (and IIRC the 1366s are rectangular instead of square, so it'd look even more off-kilter if it were sideways.) AMD has pins missing in a non-symmetrical fashion (see the picture of Socket AM2+ here) so the CPU won't even sit in properly if it's not in correctly. |
The biggest stumbling block you want to be aware of when making your own computer is compatability. Basically, don't buy an AMD-based motherboard and an Intel processor. They won't fit together. Make sure you buy the right type of RAM for your motherboard (DDR2 vs DDR3).
Make sure the video card you want will fit into your motherboard (PCI-E vs PCI-E x16 or whatever). And make sure the motherboard/video card will fit into the case! (Don't get a "micro-ATX" case if you get a full ATX Mobo)
Make sure you get a power supply capable of supporting your components. Many video cards these days require a special power conenctor and have a minimum amount of wattage that they need. Go for something that's at least 600 watts, more if you ever plan to use 2 video cards or more than one hard drive or use several ram sticks.
Past that, it's simply a matter of "this obviously goes here, this obviously goes there... let's see, these connectors are tricky but i think I got it... Oh, and this is simple, too!" Also, sometimes parts act like they don't want to go into their slots. Don't use any tools to force a part in, but you may have to use some strength to force a memory stick into place. That's the only rough part: A component that's being stubborn but you don't want to break it. Just ease it in with as much strength as you feel comfortable with, it should go eventually.
Good luck!
-STEELE =)
Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)
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I just built my first 'from scratch rig' and it took -about- an hour and a half. The pithy comment about operating a screwdriver isn't far off the mark. Welcome to 2010.
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Originally Posted by Zubenelgenubi
So this Newegg site is where one can buy components and assemble them into a fully-functional computer, yes?
I'm very leery of trying this myself. I've never built my own computer. How difficult is it? Or, perhaps better yet, is there a good place where I can pick components ala carte like Father Xmas does and have someone assemble them for me and test it out before shipping it? |
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One other thing you can look at is barebones kits. (Or combos, often they work out much the same.) Sometimes it's as little as CPU-MB-RAM, sometimes it's everything but a monitor and a copy of Windows. |
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
The biggest stumbling block you want to be aware of when making your own computer is compatability. Basically, don't buy an AMD-based motherboard and an Intel processor. They won't fit together. Make sure you buy the right type of RAM for your motherboard (DDR2 vs DDR3).
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Expect, generally, to have to add at least a hard drive and DVD drive, often a video card (and copy of Windows) to these. But you'll know the basic parts will work together. In theory.
Of course, I ended up piecing this together for under your budget - kept my monitor, picked up an OEM Win7x64 (add another $100 to the price.) Ended up picking up a new keyboard (Logitech G110) later. It's what I'm currently running.
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Thanks, Bill.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Of course, I ended up piecing this together for under your budget - kept my monitor, picked up an OEM Win7x64 (add another $100 to the price.) Ended up picking up a new keyboard (Logitech G110) later. It's what I'm currently running.
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I compared your list to that of Father Xmas here and I have a couple of questions:
Your rig managed to come in at almost $200 cheaper than his. The cheif difference appears to be that yours has a slightly faster processor (2.8 vs. 2.66 GHz) while his has a much more expensive video card ($329 vs. $169). Would you mind terribly commenting on the differences please?
Also, his shopping list has a "heat pipe direct contact" heat sink that I think gets physically glued to the processor using the thermal bonding compound. What are your thoughts on that? Necessary? Overkill? Pain-in-the-butt to do?
Thanks in advance.
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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Originally Posted by Zubenelgenubi
Thanks, Bill.
I compared your list to that of Father Xmas here and I have a couple of questions: Your rig managed to come in at almost $200 cheaper than his. The cheif difference appears to be that yours has a slightly faster processor (2.8 vs. 2.66 GHz) while his has a much more expensive video card ($329 vs. $169). Would you mind terribly commenting on the differences please? Also, his shopping list has a "heat pipe direct contact" heat sink that I think gets physically glued to the processor using the thermal bonding compound. What are your thoughts on that? Necessary? Overkill? Pain-in-the-butt to do? Thanks in advance. |
Maybe I can help, too.
Video Cards:
What you see is a Radeon HD 5850 in one build and a Radeon HD 5770 in the other.
I could give you the technical specs, if you want to. The short version is that the HD 5850 is better, roughly giving 20% more performance in terms of fps. The HD 58xx family is a little overpriced, because ATI has difficulties to fulfill the market demand. The HD 5770 is a good mid-segment card and offers good value for its price. It is roughly on par with the nVidia GTS 250. I don't think I would buy a HD 5850 myself. For a few more dollars you can get the HD 5870 and that's a really good card. Or you buy the cheaper HD 5770 and wait a few months to buy the next generation video card. Chances aren't bad that we'll see the release of the HD 6xxx family late fall this year.
CPU:
Here we have an Intel Core i5-750 @ 2.67GHz in one build and an Intel Core i7-860 @2.8 GHz in the other. Both are LGA 1156 processors. The Core i7-860 offers roughly 10% more performance and is the better processor. The Core i5-750 is still ok.
CPU-Cooler:
Try to get a Scythe Mugen 2 Rev. B. It's cheaper and better than either of the Cooler Masters listed.
Both builds are ok. I'd change some things here and there, but it's largely about personal preferences and opinion.
Holy crap, $1200? Screw the computer, buy a motorcycle or something!
Okay that was unhelpful you should get... um... you should... get.... a... get a.... motorcycle. It's warm out, I can't help it! I'm less than convinced spending $1200 on a computer is the best option. I mean a $600 rig will run this game quite nicely. One thing though; dual monitors can be quite nice. That way you can have music/messaging/teamspeak/whatever open without needing to tab.
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Hi Zub, I was away from home all last week so I didn't see your e-mail. Sorry it's taken so long to get back.|
Originally Posted by Zubenelgenubi
Thanks, Bill.
I compared your list to that of Father Xmas here and I have a couple of questions: Your rig managed to come in at almost $200 cheaper than his. The cheif difference appears to be that yours has a slightly faster processor (2.8 vs. 2.66 GHz) while his has a much more expensive video card ($329 vs. $169). Would you mind terribly commenting on the differences please? Also, his shopping list has a "heat pipe direct contact" heat sink that I think gets physically glued to the processor using the thermal bonding compound. What are your thoughts on that? Necessary? Overkill? Pain-in-the-butt to do? Thanks in advance. |
As others pointed out, the major difference in cost between my $1200 build and Memphis_Bill's is the CPU and video card. However there is one other difference.
My $1200 build is designed around the thought that if someone is going to spend that much money on a gaming PC, they are likely going to want to go one step beyond and that is overclocking the CPU and going with multiple video cards sometime in the future. Unlike the motherboard in Memphis_Bill's build, the one in mine allows both video card slots to run at x8 PCIe V2.0 speeds while Bill's 2nd slot will only run at x4 at PCIe V1.0 speed (PCIe V2.0 is twice as fast as PCIe V1.0). You could still run Crossfire with Bill's motherboard, it's doesn't help as much. The cost of the SLi/Crossfire motherboard, the larger PSU to support two HD 5850s and an OC CPU as well as the third party CPU cooler and tube of Arctic Silver adds $100 to cost.
The cost difference between the i5-750 and the i7-860 is $80-90. I don't see that added cost helping gaming performance all that much either in chart from AnandTech's Benchmark database (games near the bottom) or the gaming benchmarks in this review of CPUs. Yes the i7-860 does have hyperthreading, a slightly faster clock speed and turbo mode speed and allows use of DDR3-1600 memory without overclocking but I think the above benchmarks show that for games, it's not worth the cost.
Yes the cost savings between the HD 5850 and the HD 5770 is $160 but the performance difference isn't a mere 20%. The HD 5850 is 45-50% faster than the HD 5770. I also figure that is someone is going to spend $1200 on a gaming PC, CoH/V isn't going to be the only game they are looking to play.
There are a few other miscellaneous differences. Bill's build goes with a 2nd smaller hard drive for what I assume is for the OS as well as the original CM 690, which is a great case, over the CM 690 II. I simply feel the refinements in the CM 690 II is worth the extra $20. Note: Before the CM 690 II came out, my $1200 build did use the CM 690.
I'll PM you the answer to your question.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
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*headdesk*|
Originally Posted by Psara
Holy crap, $1200? Screw the computer, buy a motorcycle or something!
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Dude... I'm only going to say this once:
MOTORCYCLES DO NOT GET YOU FREE PORN!!
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform
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Interesting. Here the largest gap is in Crysis Warhead and Farcry2 at roughly 32% better performance overall for the HD 5850 whereas it's only 17% in GTA4 and WoW.|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Yes the cost savings between the HD 5850 and the HD 5770 is $160 but the performance difference isn't a mere 20%. The HD 5850 is 45-50% faster than the HD 5770.
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Btw, this might be interesting if you want to buy a graphic card soon:
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Fudzilla Some ATI partners are expected to lower the prices of Radeon HD 5870 and 5850 series but this action is not something that will happen overnight. We have learned that key people at AMD are still waiting to see how many Fermi cards will be available and they will only react if Nvidia manages to have really great sales with its Geforce 400 series. Some partners might slightly adjust their 5800 series pricing, and get the prices slightly down, but this action wont be supported by AMD. The partners will simply cut down their own share of profit. This has yet to happen and only a few will make such a move, but in the meantime we still have at least one week before we see Fermi in etail / retail stores. |
Myriad, are you sure you are looking at the stock clock HD 5770 numbers and not the extreme overclocked ones on that first page. 
Crysis Warhead
1280x1024, 4xAA, 16xAF - HD 5770 20.8fps - HD 5850 30.5fps - +46%
1680x1050, 4xAA, 16xAF - HD 5770 16.6fps - HD 5850 24.6fps - +48%
1920x1200, 4xAA, 16xAF - HD 5770 14.4fps - HD 5850 20.6fps - +43%
Farcry 2
1280x1024, 4xAA, 16xAF - HD 5770 51.4fps - HD 5850 75.3fps - +46%
1680x1050, 4xAA, 16xAF - HD 5770 43.5fps - HD 5850 65.2fps - +49%
1920x1200, 4xAA, 16xAF - HD 5770 39.0fps - HD 5850 56.5fps - +44%
GTA4
1280x1024, 0xAA, 16xAF - HD 5770 42.8fps - HD 5850 48.7fps - +13%
1680x1050, 0xAA, 16xAF - HD 5770 37.8fps - HD 5850 45.1fps - +19%
1920x1200, 0xAA, 16xAF - HD 5770 34.2fps - HD 5850 41.4fps - +21%
WoW
1280x1024, 4xAA, 16xAF - HD 5770 58.7fps - HD 5850 70.7fps - +20%
1680x1050, 4xAA, 16xAF - HD 5770 51.0fps - HD 5850 60.8fps - +19%
1920x1200, 4xAA, 16xAF - HD 5770 48.4fps - HD 5850 56.9fps - +17%
Looking at the remaining games benchmarked at PCGamesHardware, only at the 1920x1200 resolution.
Call of Duty: World at War - 22%
Fallout 3 - 28%
Half Life 2: Ep 2 - 45%
Race Driver: Grid - 37%
Stalker: Clear Sky - 47%
So surprise, some games scale better to graphics hardware than others. I simply object to saying the card only gives 20%, which may be true in some games, isn't true in all.
Where the new UM engine for CoV/H falls, we won't know until I17 open beta when everyone can take a crack at playing with the new game settings. But I have a sneaking suspicion, well not so sneaky if you check out Positron's post on UM hardware, that heftier hardware the better and the HD 5770 gives you mid range UM settings.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Just thought in my own two cents when I read in one of the posts about something called "Cyberpowerpc".
Do NOT shop from them if your going to have someone build it. Do NOT. They are HORRIBLE. The computer I am using right now was about that price range. Got it from them. I could not use it for about half a year do to all the problems and lack of customer service they provide.
I could rant for hours, but I don't want to go off topic.
50's (Only most important)
Zuraq (53 EM/SR Brute)
Stagmalite (50 Granite/Fire TanK)
(Couple of other's I don't care about.)
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Hmm... no, I was looking at the stock clock HD 5770 but I made another mistake ... to save time I used a small spreadsheet and I made a stupid typo in the formula that was copied into each calculation ... sorry about that. |
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Myriad, are you sure you are looking at the stock clock HD 5770 numbers and not the extreme overclocked ones on that first page.
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Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Where the new UM engine for CoV/H falls, we won't know until I17 open beta when everyone can take a crack at playing with the new game settings. But I have a sneaking suspicion, well not so sneaky if you check out Positron's post on UM hardware, that heftier hardware the better and the HD 5770 gives you mid range UM settings.
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All,
I know this comes up a lot, but my search-fu is weak and pathetic.
I'm going to be buying a brand-new gaming rig soon. I've saved up $1200 so far and may have another $300-500 or so to spend before it's all said and done.
I want a rig that will last me a long time. i.e. not become gaming obsolete any time soon. But I also want good value. (Yes, I plan to max out the RAM.) It's been... 7 years since I bought a new machine, and I just don't know what's out there. Can anyone recommend a few good options? CPU's, manufacturers, etc.?
Thanks in advance!
"OK, first of all... Shut Up." - My 13-Year-Old Daughter
29973 "The Running of the Bulls" [SFMA] - WINNER of the Mighty Big Story Arc Contest !
- The Stellar Wind Orbital Space Platform