Immob doesn't stop knockdown. Knockback protection stops knockdown (and knockback) .
Many immobs grant knocback protection (mag 100, IIRC), but not all do. Midnight Grasp, Tenebrous Tentacles, Crush, and Crushing Field all allow knockdown (and knockback) after being used.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
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Agree on peoples urge to spam AOE immobs, I tend to ask them to play smart and hold off on the immobs if there's a patch up. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It's most lethal in the teens when Ice Patch is probably the best AOE control going and inexperienced controllers are going crazy with their new AOE "control". Tends to get them killed as well.|
Originally Posted by kojirodensetsu
I never play my ice troller anymore for this reason. The problem isn't me using immobs, it's other people spamming aoe immobs like it's going out of style.
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Don't think at this stage it'll be changed though, a chunk of characters rely on the AOE immob providing -knockback (Storm most notably, but my Claws/Elec Brute uses it too) and it's been this way for so long it's probably unlikely to change now.
I do think it's terrible design that Ice and Earths Holds provide -knockback as well though and that should be changed.*
So unless they're a Grav or Plant I ask them to hold off caging enemies on ice patches for a bit, and generally people are happy to do so. Grav it's unnecessary to ask them to stop (it doesn't give knockdown resistance) and Plants tend not to have a choice (Creepers manages to both do knockdown via vines and provide knockback protection via Immob patches, as does Fly Trap and Roots) and just live with it.
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Amusingly, the immobilize powers which confer knockback protection do not provide repel protection, so Hurricane and Force Bubble can still move immobilized enemies around |
Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
a chunk of characters rely on the AOE immob providing -knockback (Storm most notably, but my Claws/Elec Brute uses it too)
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Well, I guess bringing this up enough times in "Get rid of knockback!" threads has finally paid off
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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This is why I love my Earth Dom.
Earthquake and Quicksand have enough of a debuff to defense and ToHit that I still feel good about using my AoE Immob and canceling out the Knockdown of Earthquake.
Ice Patch needs a nice debuff attached to it... Slow? Maybe a DoT? -ToHit? SOMETHING to make it still worthwhile when using immobs, too.
-Rachel-
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I'll counter that with a Plant Controller using Seeds of Confusion and his AoE immob. I'm sorry that my set's pretty standard tactic trumps your pretty standard tactic, and when I'm on a team with an Ice, I'll try to avoid the immob. However there's no arguing that an AoE immob is one of the best sources of damage available to a Controller (Plant's in particular). I'm not about to give up that damage without a really good reason. (and I wouldnt favor removing the KB from the power, because it's already been gutted when it was made Ground Only, and I really LIKE a power that keeps things tightly grouped for AoEs)
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Originally Posted by Carnifax_NA
Agree on peoples urge to spam AOE immobs, I tend to ask them to play smart and hold off on the immobs if there's a patch up. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. It's most lethal in the teens when Ice Patch is probably the best AOE control going and inexperienced controllers are going crazy with their new AOE "control". Tends to get them killed as well.
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"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
I'll counter that with a Plant Controller using Seeds of Confusion and his AoE immob. I'm sorry that my set's pretty standard tactic trumps your pretty standard tactic, and when I'm on a team with an Ice, I'll try to avoid the immob. However there's no arguing that an AoE immob is one of the best sources of damage available to a Controller (Plant's in particular). I'm not about to give up that damage without a really good reason.
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Erm, if you'd fully quoted instead of partially you'd see I gave Plant an honourable exception to my rule specifically for the reasons you say. Plant cannot help itself, what with Creepers and Trappy doing it too, and gets a lot more out of the spammage.
Yes I see that now. I admit I was skimming because I'm bouncing through several pages of browsing and a chat convo at the same time. My bad.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Some immobilization offers knockdown and knockback protection for a reason. For example, earth or ice comes out from the ground and bind mob's legs. This immobilizes the mobs, and it makes sense that the mobs shouldn't be knocked off the ground because of the rock and ice.|
Originally Posted by kojirodensetsu
I never play my ice troller anymore for this reason. The problem isn't me using immobs, it's other people spamming aoe immobs like it's going out of style.
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Other immobilization powers are different. For example fire and electricity create a field around the target. The field confines the mob within a small space thus immobilizing them. In my opinion, such immobilization power should allow knockdown because the mechanism doesn't bind the feet to the ground. In principle, knockback should be reduced to knockdown within the confinement field (such reduction probably can't be easily implemented under the current game mechanics).
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In theory, granting knockback resistance that is less than 100% (instead of granting knockback protection) would turn knockback into knockdown.|
Originally Posted by Twilight_Snow
In principle, knockback should be reduced to knockdown within the confinement field (such reduction probably can't be easily implemented under the current game mechanics).
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In practice, it doesn't work so well simply due to the magnitudes of the KB powers players have access to.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Agreed. KB protection needs to go IMO. I lose my main source of defense when I can't KUp enemies.
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And I lose my main source of keeping things in one spot to die moar faster without it. I'll vote for more dead things any day. If that happens to mean a few extra Ice trollers get thrown under the bus too, so be it.
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Originally Posted by The_Coming_Storm
Agreed. KB protection needs to go IMO. I lose my main source of defense when I can't KUp enemies.
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"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Actually, if the immobilization changes kb to kd, then the OP is happy and the mobs can stay at the same spot. |
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
And I lose my main source of keeping things in one spot to die moar faster without it. I'll vote for more dead things any day. If that happens to mean a few extra Ice trollers get thrown under the bus too, so be it.
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As I pointed out: while technically possible to turn KB into KD, it's not feasible when you consider the KB powers that players have access to.
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Originally Posted by Twilight_Snow
Actually, if the immobilization changes kb to kd, then the OP is happy and the mobs can stay at the same spot.
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http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
I never play my ice troller anymore for this reason. The problem isn't me using immobs, it's other people spamming aoe immobs like it's going out of style.