What Archtype to make?


Adeon Hawkwood

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Sloshed View Post
What are the perks/good points of Rad/Sonic Defenders? What can/can't they do?


Bots/Traps still looking fun.

Though a Dark/Shield or Fire/Shield looks good. However I'm not ure whether Brute or Scrapper would do better for them.
A Rad/Sonic's biggest advantage is the ability to stack considerable -resistance debuff on a foe effectively multiplying your damage. They're highly effective teammates and do solo well; I'm not sure they solo well enough to take a GM though

They have the Rad debuffs for survivability and all their attacks have significant -resistance in them. Still, AV's & GM's will resist your debuffs and the character's ultimately dealing with defender level hit points. I have one in the mid-30's and it's a good character and capable. That capable though? I doubt it based on my other Rad Emission characters.

Put a group of Rad/Sonics together though and you've built a team that's capable of steamrolling most content; mine was created and leveled with my SG on a 5 man team of all Rad/Sonic defenders. We'll probably get back to that team sometime... we tend to switch concepts frequently. The 7 man Fire/Rad controller team was truly awesome.

I can't give you any real perspective on redside... I've never played a MM past level 15 and only played one villain to 50. Almost all my playtime is blueside.


COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by Sloshed View Post
If I tank an AV as my MM what abilities would be absolutely necessary for holding agro and keeping myself alive?
The main things you need to tank an AV are:
  1. A taunt (either Challenge or Provoke) that is slotted up enough to be sure you can keep it going continuously
  2. Some form of healing for both you and your pets (Triage Beacon helps but Aid Other and Aid Self are nice additions)
  3. Bodyguard mode to reduce damage
  4. As much ranged and AoE defense as possible
  5. Some way to keep the AV out of melee range, such as immobilizing him or using Hover
Theoretically you could get by with softcapped defense and extra regeneration, but Aid Other is useful to Masterminds so you may as well get Aid Self too. It will increase the range of AVs you can solo and help recover from unlucky streaks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshed View Post
What are the perks/good points of Rad/Sonic Defenders? What can/can't they do?
Rad/Sonic Defenders are experts at taking down single hard targets. Rad has a huge array of debuffs, which are very handy against AVs and GMs. In particular, you get -damage and -resist debuffs (which are not 85% resisted by AVs and GMs like most debuffs) and a very powerful -regen debuff (which is resisted heavily, but is so strong it still drops their regen to 1/4 normal). You also get an AoE heal, and a nice multi-effect AoE buff in Accelerate Metabolism. /Sonic gives you a single target focused blast set with stackable -resist debuffs, and since Defenders have the most powerful debuffs those add up fast. Combining Lingering Radiation's -regen with all the -resist you toss around a high end Rad/Sonic can solo giant monsters, provided they live long enough. Since your to-hit debuffs don't work well on AVs or higher that means softcapping ranged defense... fortunately Defenders get a lot of defense from things like Weave and Maneuvers.

In general, a Rad/Sonic will probably defeat a GM faster than an Ill/Rad, but the Ill/Rad will have a better chance of winning. Both will require insanely expensive builds though... a Bots / Traps might not defeat every AV or monster, but he'll beat quite a few with a build literally a hundred times cheaper than either a Rad/Sonic or an Ill/Rad. (10-20 million or so vs a couple billion).


Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name

[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
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Posted

Eh, I don't have any expensive stuff in my Thugs/Dark and I kill nearly any AVs without issue. Soloed Ghost Widow as an AV in the patron arc, and I don't bother with IOs before level 50 so this was on SOs. You get a pocket Brute and Fluffy, and the rest of the gang does some lovely, steady damage. With your own Dark powers, debuffing is no problem (you have one of the 'hard' regen debuffs, -res in Tar Patch, and more than one source of -damage) and keeping the pets alive is easy. Later on, your immobilization becomes a little more reliable thanks to patron pools, but earlier on Fluffy can handle this if you slot him for it.

Well, alright, I had the Achilles Heel proc in my Enforcers, but it's not like that IO is particularly rare. I find at least one on every single new villain I level.


 

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Some good places to start:

You want to be self-sufficient, but with powers that will 'happen' to benefit the team as well.

Kinda Teamish:

Tankers can survive just about anything solo. They just take a little longer alone to defeat this. Everything they do grabs enemy attention, so they are helpful on teams where delicate folks want someone tough to hide behind. The high toughness becomes more valuable (or needed) in situations with more/tougher enemies, which happens a lot on teams. For soloing, shield/ and fire/ have ways of making your ability to defeat foes go faster. It tried something damagish on a Shield/axe, but it never compares to scraps/brutes.

Controllers are odd in that some primaries/secondaries solo well, while others really are best in a group. Things like illusion/ or fire/ or plant/ can do crazy stuff solo as they have some more offense in them, and I've seen some good ones at work. While fire/kin is a favorite, I'm ambivalent about it, though this from seeing some less experience handlers of that FoTM.

Defenders are underated solo. Sure they are best at strengthening/weakening, and have lower starting damage. Solo strong debuffing abilities to make your damage higher very fast, as do damage boosts. Radiation/, dark/, and traps/ are very survivable and good at weakening foes. Kinetics/ can boost its damage, but is a bit more vulnerable. Cold/ thermal/ and sonic/ have good debuffs, but after a bunch of team buffs. Forcefield/ and empathy/ shine mostly on a team. For secondaries: /sonic, /ice and /dark offer good survivability and debuffs, and radiation and /energy have some mitigation as well. pistols/ assault rifle/ and archery/ have damage, but a bit less mitigation for a soloist. Electric blast is awesome with anything that drains endurance, *cough*Kinetics*cough* a bit less so else-wise. I'm having fun on my kin/electric sapper, rad/rad is good as ever. My traps/archery is fun, though not Uber. Dark/Dark is pretty much a debuffy dominator with a heal.

Good at both:

Masterminds do this by always carrying a team, and they can add more and help those as well. They team the entire game, really. They just have minions that they can't control and take bio breaks once in awhile at times, but you have to use the 'invite' or 'accept invite' buttons to get them. I like my bots/ff, but it's so safe it's silly at times. Like when I got drowsy killing black scorpion as an AV.

Brutes are the more teamish scrappers: They gain aggro to help them with fury, and since this pulls attention from team members, it's helpful to both. Please don't use the word 'tank' on these guys. They just wanna have fun punching things.

Dominators have good damage and can stop foes from attacking them. Consequently, the foes they stop from attacking also won't attack team members. This helps them and teams. Mind/ has crazy lockdown, but my Fire/fire has the wildest AoE, paired with damage and control. Tis fun to be a safe pyro.

Corruptors: these guys have a lot of the same tools as defenders, but have more damage and less buff/debuffs. They get fire blast, but other than that have a lot of the same defender advice to go by. You can do what a defenders does, but stuff dies faster. Oh, no empathy, /pain instead. It's a bit more debuffy, and helps you more than empathy does. I like my rad/kin, as well as my sonic/sonic and rad/rad. My bro's sonic/dark is crazy good.

Blasters live by killing most everything else. Consequently, when they kill lots of things on teams, that saves other from being hurt by said dead things. They are a bit squishy, so having team members to help them survive things made angry by getting blasted away can help them as well. Still..solo /mental heals you and gives endurance and AoE's. I like it. /Em is still nice on its stuns/kb/damage. Arch/EM is devastating at range, fire/mental is fun for AoE AND some good single target. AR/Em has a lot of good tricks too.

Kinda soloish:

Scrappers still kill bosses very well, and can survive a lot. They aren't so good at helping team members directly, except by killing stuff- particularly tough stuff. for the whole soft-caping thang, /sr is pretty easy. You know about /shield....I'v ehear the fun that spines/dark and spines fire can bring, AoE wise. Electric/ the same, but more burst-ish, and fire/ more 'over-time' ish.

Stalkers are like a more focused scrapper, with the ability to kill stuff before it can hit back. They can also spread fear and debuff accuracy with assassin strikes. They gain extra critical for nearby allies, so they function best on melee teams when teaming. Not much I can say here...these I've played less. I had a bad time with /dark in some respects, though.


 

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Thanks much Seldom!

Leaning heavily toward a MM, likely Bots/Traps (I just can't get into thugs). Shield scrappers/brutes look tempting as well. An electric/shield one could be quite a bit of fun... they have two 'teleport to target' type moves right? Would that be better as a brute or scrapper?

Keeping an eye on the demon summoning and hoping it is a fairly useful powerset. Perhaps somewhere along the lines of Thugs. Demon/Dark would be fun and thematic.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshed View Post
Thanks much Seldom!

Leaning heavily toward a MM, likely Bots/Traps (I just can't get into thugs). Shield scrappers/brutes look tempting as well. An electric/shield one could be quite a bit of fun... they have two 'teleport to target' type moves right? Would that be better as a brute or scrapper?

Keeping an eye on the demon summoning and hoping it is a fairly useful powerset. Perhaps somewhere along the lines of Thugs. Demon/Dark would be fun and thematic.
Electric/shield does indeed have two teleports, and their damage is very good. Be warned of their long recharges, however.

As far as masterminds go? I started on bots/, and have been spoiled since. They are good shooters, so they don't go running off into new spawns as much. They're all the more awesome when they get their laser 'mini-full auto' power. The protectors bubble all other pets and you, as well lobbing AoE disorients and healing other bots. Sooo good. And the big bot? Flamethrowers? Check. -Regen lasers? Check. Spawn obliterating napalm warheads? Double check. So yes. Smart pets, with good mitigation and gobs of damage. Pretty durned nice. (You do have to wait for 32 for some of this, though.)


 

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The only real drawback to Bots is that they have no AoE whatsoever before level 26 and only a small amount before 32. They are very sturdy and safe, but you won't tear through lower level missions as fast as some sets like Thugs do. Once you hit 32 though, they suddenly turn into massive AoE death machines and you can start mowing down pretty much anything.

Oh, and they clank when they walk. Some people find that annoying... I personally like it.


Cascade, level 50 Blaster (NRG/NRG since before it was cool)
Mechmeister, level 50 Bots / Traps MM
FAR too many non-50 alts to name

[u]Arcs[u]
The Scavenger Hunt: 187076
The Instant Lair Delivery Service: 206636

 

Posted

So if I wanted a nice cross-section of gameplay... the following three mgiht be good starts?

Bots/Traps MM
/shield Bruiser or Scrapper (With either electric, fire, SS, or dark as the main)
Ill/Rad Controller

Any thoughts on Bruiser vs Scrapper and the different options? I understand that Bruiser's effect works on dots (so excels with fire) and that they do dark nicely as well. But scrapper would be better with electric (Doesn't have many DoTs does it?). And would obviously be bruiser if SS.

Really curious how electric, SS, Fire, and Dark compare now. What are their upsides and downsides?


 

Posted

Fire/Shield Scrapper. It's pure win.

You can fantastic AoE damage with Fire Sword Circle and Shield Charge, plus you get top of the line single target damage. Seriously it is the best of both worlds. Plus you don't have to worry about the damn fury bar, so you high damage is a constant.

Worst case, fire/sd is second best AoE(behind elec melee) and second best single target(behind Dark Melee). That is worst case. And the sets it falls behind in each category are really really really bad at the other category(DM bad AoE, Elec bad ST).


 

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Originally Posted by MunkiLord View Post
Fire/Shield Scrapper. It's pure win.

You can fantastic AoE damage with Fire Sword Circle and Shield Charge, plus you get top of the line single target damage. Seriously it is the best of both worlds. Plus you don't have to worry about the damn fury bar, so you high damage is a constant.

Worst case, fire/sd is second best AoE(behind elec melee) and second best single target(behind Dark Melee). That is worst case. And the sets it falls behind in each category are really really really bad at the other category(DM bad AoE, Elec bad ST).

In that case with shield charge (to minimize the loss of fury) and how the bonus from bruisers effects DoT damage but not the crit from scrappers. Wouldn't bruisers be a better overall choice for Fire/SD? What does scrapper offer over it?

So DM is top single target, Elec is good AoE and Fire is about secondary in each. With the other scrapper/bruiser sets having various utility or effects added to them?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshed View Post
In that case with shield charge (to minimize the loss of fury) and how the bonus from bruisers effects DoT damage but not the crit from scrappers. Wouldn't bruisers be a better overall choice for Fire/SD? What does scrapper offer over it?

So DM is top single target, Elec is good AoE and Fire is about secondary in each. With the other scrapper/bruiser sets having various utility or effects added to them?
What are bruisers?


Words to the wise aren't necessary- it's the stupid ones that need them.

"You're right...I forgot...being constantly at or the near the damage cap is a big turn off. Definitely not worth it."
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshed View Post
In that case with shield charge (to minimize the loss of fury) and how the bonus from bruisers effects DoT damage but not the crit from scrappers. Wouldn't bruisers be a better overall choice for Fire/SD? What does scrapper offer over it?

So DM is top single target, Elec is good AoE and Fire is about secondary in each. With the other scrapper/bruiser sets having various utility or effects added to them?

Simple answer to Scrappers vs. Brutes: Scrappers don't rely on fury for their damage. Meaning a Scrapper will have a constant level of damage from the start of the fight to the end. Basically better burst damage. The longer a fight goes the better a brutes damage gets so in a long fight they pull ahead. I'm not sure the fury level brutes need to pull ahead of scrappers in damage.

Each has it's advantages, whats best for you depends on your playstyle.

Also, while DM is considered the best ST damage, Fire is not very far behind at all. I haven't checked the Rikti Pylon thread in a while, but I do know for a bit the record for best DPS actually belonged to a Fire/shield and not DM/shield. Not sure if that is still the case. I'm sure someone that knows more than me will correct me if I'm wrong.


 

Posted

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Originally Posted by MunkiLord View Post
Also, while DM is considered the best ST damage, Fire is not very far behind at all. I haven't checked the Rikti Pylon thread in a while, but I do know for a bit the record for best DPS actually belonged to a Fire/shield and not DM/shield. Not sure if that is still the case. I'm sure someone that knows more than me will correct me if I'm wrong.
Actually a DM/Shield managed to pull ahead even of MMs doing the pylon. But yeah impressed by both DM and Fire. Will have to do a bit of thinking.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshed View Post
In that case with shield charge (to minimize the loss of fury) and how the bonus from bruisers effects DoT damage but not the crit from scrappers. Wouldn't bruisers be a better overall choice for Fire/SD? What does scrapper offer over it?

So DM is top single target, Elec is good AoE and Fire is about secondary in each. With the other scrapper/bruiser sets having various utility or effects added to them?
To get this out of the way, since someone has already started being snarky about it: a Bruiser is a Thugs MM's Boss pet. A Brute is a playable AT.

For /Shield, there's simply no reason to want to make a Brute. You get a few more hit points than a Scrapper and a higher resistance and maxhp cap, but that's it.
  • Assuming that the damage is capped on the Brute Shield Charge (which isn't hard with Fury, since it has the pet +300% damage cap, not the Brute +750% one), a Scrapper needs to have Build Up and roughly 66% damage slotting to outdamage it.
  • Against All Odds on Brutes is a smaller percentage buff (due to weaker AT self-buff modifiers) of a smaller base number, that is drowned out in the overall percentage increase from Fury. Sure, it boosts damage, but compared to how much it boosts the damage on a Scrapper, it may as well not be there.
  • Both ATs have the same defense modifiers, so Scrappers will softcap with the same IO investment as Brutes. One isn't any cheaper than the other to build until you account for the market.
  • Which is the last point: IOs are more readily available in Wentworth's than the Black Market. You're more likely to find and acquire what you need earlier with a Scrapper.
As for soloing GMs... Cold Domination is another great set for doing so.


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