What is your secondary?
Simply put, Chain induction is great and adds to your ability to pump out single target damage; Jacob's Ladder is good for both your AoE needs and helps your single target chain as well in a set lacking massive single target attacks. Thunderstrike takes way too long to activate for its single target damage, and is possibly the worst power you have to use against a single target. I assume by mu vet power you mean the blackwand or the mu bolts from the patron set. Chain induction, Jacob's Ladder, and Havoc Punch/Charged Brawl are your single target powers; just so happens that the first two might also hit anything else around.
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Skip them both. Lightning Rod and Thunderstrike are good enough for AoE purposes.
@macskull, @Not Mac | XBL: macskull | Steam: macskull | Skype: macskull
"One day we all may see each other elsewhere. In Tyria, in Azeroth. We may pass each other and never know it. And that's sad. But if nothing else, we'll still have Rhode Island."
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Chain induction is not a subpar power, I find it worth taking. It does decent ST damage and is fast-activating. The problem may be that you'll want to use it in a ST attack chain (because I find it good ebough for that) but it eats endurance up like an AoE attack, so slot it with some end reduction.
Oh, and if you kill the first mob you hit with CI, it won't jump, after some prctice you will know hen to switch targets to use CI on a mob that won't die thus allowing CI to jump and damage other nearby enemies.
Jacob's Ladder is your only pure Energy attack aside from Lightning Rod. A general tip for melee cones to -greatly- increase the area: Take a step back right before using it. I don't know if this is a latency abuse or something, but it treats the cone as longer and wider than it really is if you do this, allowing you to easily hit the cap of 5 targets every time with minimal aiming. It takes getting used to, but once you figure it out it'll be second nature to you with narrow melee cones like Jacob's Ladder or Sands of Mu; considering you can't enhance the latter and BU doesn't affect it, you should just use Jacob's whenever you currently use Sands, as they're very similar in reach and area. I certainly enjoy it. Only gripe with it is the slightly slowish feeling animation, but looking at the numbers it seems to be mostly a 'feel' thing than actual slowness.
Chain Induction is pretty great. I use it as often as possible. Granted, I'm Elec Armor so I don't have any endurance issues, so you might want to slot it for EndRedux as if it were an AoE. In fact, it technically is an AoE of sorts, if a 'different' one. The bouncing shock does pure Energy damage and benefits from enhancements and buffs like Build Up, while jumping a considerable amount of times (~5, give or take a few randomly). The damage on your primary target is equal to that of Havoc Punch.
The only subpar power in Elec Melee is Lightning Clap, which Stalkers don't even get due to Assassin's Strike, and maybe Charged Brawl, depending on various factors.
tl;dr I'd wouldn't skip either. Just replace Sands with Jacob's in your chain.
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Well. Except for Chain Induction. I skip Jacobs cause I find it to be too slow, but Chain being Havoc Punch on a Oldschool ET Animation, along with the bonus damage from the Lightning Jump, its a pretty excellent power.|
Originally Posted by macskull
Skip them both. Lightning Rod and Thunderstrike are good enough for AoE purposes.
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Get The Tier 1 & 2 Punches, get Chain, Thunderstrike and Lightning Rod and you wont ever really need much more.
The chain has gaps in it you can fix with some slotting, but you arent really meant to deal awesome ST DPS, more like a giant Crowd softener on everything, including Bosses.
Note: the following is only referring to single-target DPA on non-critical hits - any additional targets hit or criticals are gravy.
In order, the DPA attacks for Stalker Electric Melee after accounting for server ticks are:
Chain Induction (1.111 damage scale/sec)
Lightning Rod (0.866 - assumed near the center)
Jacob's Ladder (0.812)
Charged Brawl (0.795)
Assassin's Shock (0.789)
Havoc Punch (0.769)
Thunder Strike (0.571 to primary target)
So, as 2 of the top 3 DPA attacks in the set - and the other one is on a 90 second base recharge, how do you think they do at high levels in Electric Melee?
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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The scrapper experts say that on high recharge buils, C. Brawl is better than Havoc Punch in terms of DPS. |
Originally Posted by Col_Blitzkrieger
The only subpar power in Elec Melee is Lightning Clap, which Stalkers don't even get due to Assassin's Strike, and maybe Charged Brawl, depending on various factors.
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I'd advise getting CI, CB and HP and after SO's or some IO'ing, like level 30ish or something when you can get good recharge on your attacks, replace CB or HP with Jacob's Ladder.
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This is why I love Siolfir.|
In order, the DPA attacks for Stalker Electric Melee after accounting for server ticks are: Chain Induction (1.111 damage scale/sec) Lightning Rod (0.866 - assumed near the center) Jacob's Ladder (0.812) Charged Brawl (0.795) Assassin's Shock (0.789) Havoc Punch (0.769) Thunder Strike (0.571 to primary target) So, as 2 of the top 3 DPA attacks in the set - and the other one is on a 90 second base recharge, how do you think they do at high levels in Electric Melee? |
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| The scrapper experts say that on high recharge buils, C. Brawl is better than Havoc Punch in terms of DPS. |
Your single target attack chain, btw, not counting LRod should be: Chain Induction-->Havoc Punch-->Jacob's Ladder-->Havoc Punch, repeat.
At stupidly high recharge values replace the Havoc Punches with Charged Brawl.
So really, for optimal performance you need to get everything in your primary except one of the first or second tier punches, depending on how much recharge you have. Sorry, but that's just the way it is; try skipping a travel power maybe.
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I did mention 'various factors'.
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
The scrapper experts say that on high recharge buils, C. Brawl is better than Havoc Punch in terms of DPS.
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Or use Charged Brawl in between everything and use Assassin's Shock (which has a higher DPA than Havoc Punch even without the critical) to kill the dead time while waiting on Chain Induction if you really want to avoid taking one or the other. Especially since the CI>HP>JL>HP chain requires you to cycle Havoc Punch around Chain Induction, which puts you over the recharge cap at ~405% (albeit only needing 117% in CI due to the extra animation time on HP).|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
Your single target attack chain, btw, not counting LRod should be: Chain Induction-->Havoc Punch-->Jacob's Ladder-->Havoc Punch, repeat.
At stupidly high recharge values replace the Havoc Punches with Charged Brawl. |
The limiting factor in using Charged Brawl instead of Havoc Punch for the same chain has to do with needing ~254% recharge in Chain Induction for faster cycling - it's fairly easy (~152% recharge) to get Charged Brawl down to the ~1.19 second recharge to squeeze it around CI.
For Brutes it's even easier - Mu Lightning has higher DPA than anything below Chain Induction, and Gloom is higher DPA than anything in the whole set; they make nice attack chain fillers.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Soooo maybe (if you have the slots) Dark Blast/Mu Bolts could have a place in an attack chain as fillers? Dark Blast/Mu Bolts do 55.5 damage on a 6 sec recharge, same as Havoc Punch. Mu Lightning does 55 dmg and Gloom 73ish (of course more because of Fury), but Mu is on a 9 sec rech and Gloom, 12 sec.
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Originally Posted by Siolfir
The limiting factor in using Charged Brawl instead of Havoc Punch for the same chain has to do with needing ~254% recharge in Chain Induction for faster cycling - it's fairly easy (~152% recharge) to get Charged Brawl down to the ~1.19 second recharge to squeeze it around CI.
For Brutes it's even easier - Mu Lightning has higher DPA than anything below Chain Induction, and Gloom is higher DPA than anything in the whole set; they make nice attack chain fillers. |
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You cannot avoid taking one or the other. As the first two powers one must be chosen. Using Assassin's Shock to fill the time runs the risk of getting interrupted, which completely negates its damage; on average I don't think that's going to get you higher dps, even when softcapped. Yes, there is a pause still with Havoc Punch, but until you get very high levels of recharge for CI it's still overall better damage than the Charged Brawl version. I would definitely use Gloom for brutes though, wicked damage on that.| Or use Charged Brawl in between everything and use Assassin's Shock (which has a higher DPA than Havoc Punch even without the critical) to kill the dead time while waiting on Chain Induction if you really want to avoid taking one or the other. Especially since the CI>HP>JL>HP chain requires you to cycle Havoc Punch around Chain Induction, which puts you over the recharge cap at ~405% (albeit only needing 117% in CI due to the extra animation time on HP). |
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| Soooo maybe (if you have the slots) Dark Blast/Mu Bolts could have a place in an attack chain as fillers? Dark Blast/Mu Bolts do 55.5 damage on a 6 sec recharge, same as Havoc Punch. Mu Lightning does 55 dmg and Gloom 73ish (of course more because of Fury), but Mu is on a 9 sec rech and Gloom, 12 sec |
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I had meant avoid taking both - or, specifically, "I want to avoid Charged Brawl" or "I want to avoid Havoc Punch". As for filling in Assassin's Shock, my ElM/Nin has had surprisingly little trouble getting it off, although honestly more often than not I use Thunder Strike to fill for extra AoE - let's face it, there is definately a limited number of times that you end up with just one mob against you.|
Originally Posted by Microcosm
You cannot avoid taking one or the other.
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| Yes, there is a pause still with Havoc Punch, but until you get very high levels of recharge for CI it's still overall better damage than the Charged Brawl version. I would definitely use Gloom for brutes though, wicked damage on that. |
And yes, Mu Bolts is worse for DPA than Havoc Punch, because it's a lower damage scale attack at scale 1.0 (DS/sec of 0.758). In comparison, and going back to Brutes, for the same animation time Mu Lightning is scale 1.32 (1.0 DS/sec), and Gloom has a shorter animation for scale 1.76 damage (1.333 DS/sec). It unlocks Ball Lightning, though, which is better (0.773) and adds to an already AoE-happy attack chain, but the recharge is too long for a good chain filler.
Dark Blast, on the other hand, has a 1 second (adjusted to 1.188) animation to do scale 1.0 damage, which gives it a DS/sec of 0.842; that puts it above Jacob's Ladder for DPA and makes it a nice filler.
FWIW, with 172% recharge in CI, you could do CI->CB->DB->CB->JL->repeat seamlessly.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
it has gone from unconscionable to downright appalling that we have no way of measuring our characters' wetness.
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Originally Posted by Brillig
It's hard to beat the entertainment value of Whackjob Wednesdays.
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Well, you convinced me, so I've updated my guide 
Needed a few other changes anyway.
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Just curious how useful these are at upper lvl's. I took Jacobs ladder but more or less find myself using it as an extra attack when something else isn't charged. I do like to play more like a scrapper with AS. I am less than impressed with the Jacobs Ladder since I have to try to line them up to hit more than one target (though more often then not its just one), and the damage doesn't seem all that great. I find myself using AS, placate, thunderstrike, then havoc punch along with the mu vet power more than anything, but wondering how does chain induction fair on a stalker? I skipped it in order to pick up some of my secondaries, but wondered if this was something most stalkers found useful or just another subpar power. Any help would be great...thanks in advance.