Is there a reason we can't have Crossbows for Weapons on Archery and Trick Archery Toons?

Oldeb,

I'm not trying to be unreasonable about it. And I am trying to do exactly what you are saying mix three different new things the Dev's have put in the game: Alternate Weapons, Alternate Animations, and Power Customization.

My hope is that by doing those three things, the Devs have changed something that was "impossible" because it would take so much work to: "well actually, we have done this, and that, and that, and Talionis is right now that I think about it, we could put those three things together to make a new powerset look, animation, whatever, we can give them crossbows and its not that hard."

I could be wrong. I am mostly likely wrong. It really depends on how the code was written and how its been changed. My profession is not coding. But on the off chance what I'm saying really does make sense and the three things can be put together to give a good crossbow attack with little actual work, I think its a great idea.

If its going to take a lot more time than just cut and paste and clean. Then I wouldn't suggest worrying over it either. -- I still want the crossbows. But I'd rather have newer stuff.

But I think the best suggestion to come from this thread would be to re-examine now that all these changes have been made, what can be put into the game more quickly and easily. Does it make Power Set Proliferation easier? Maybe this will jog a Dev to think of ways to make new stuff in a simplier way.

My assuming isn't stupid, but it still may be wrong. I say that because I don't want to be as absolute as everyone that doesn't know any more than me who is saying "No it would take a really long time" with no real knowledge of that.

I think people have jumped on me like pack dogs telling me abjectlly "no, it simply can't be done." Most with no real knowledge of the actual programing. A year or two ago, I would've agreed with each of you because red names had mentioned how hard any of these things was to do. But a lot of the programing has obviously changed since then.

I'm not trying to bring any one down.

I know that what the Dev's have already done was not easy. It took a lot of work and I appreciate it.

My assumption really is that when the Dev's changed the programming to allow alternative skins for Assault Rifle, that they left the code open to add new ones much more easily than first time. So if they wanted to add a new skin for claws it would be much easier to do a new skin now.

Ironically enough, there were Crossbows in the game back in Beta. Back when Blasters were Ranged/Melee, not Ranged/Manipulation like they are today, all of the Blaster Secondaries were identical to Melee sets, except for the first power, which was always a ranged Immobilize power, just like the one we have today.

Back in those days, Broadsword (originally Medieval Weapons, but the axe, mace and possibly other weapons were removed from that set and made into their own sets) was a Blaster Secondary. So it was possible to have an Assault Rifle/Broadsword Blaster.

The first power in Blaster Broadsword was Crossbow. It drew a Crossbow and fired it.

That's ONE power, however, out of ONE Power Set. There is not a complete set of animations for the weapon, and it likely reused the animation for Assault Rifle Slug, with a different weapon model and graphic for the arrow.

Now, it's POSSIBLE that you could take a selectable weapon model, like the different models available for a Bow, and replace it with a Crossbow option. And it's POSSIBLE that you could take the animations for the Bow, like the animations for Super Strength, and replace them with different animations. And it's POSSIBLE that you could tie the two together, so that when you pick a Bow, you get the animations for a Bow, and when you pick a Crossbow, you get the animations for a Crossbow. And it's POSSIBLE that you can tie this to the stance, as well, so that when you draw the Bow, you hold it in one hand by the center, and hold your other hand to draw an arrow, and when you draw the Crossbow, you hold it by the stock like an Assault Rifle.

It's also POSSIBLE that you could take a weapon model for a Broadsword, and replace it with a Battle Axe. And it's POSSIBLE that you could make it so when you picked a Broadsword, you'd get the animations for the Broadsword, and when you picked a Battle Axe you'd get the animations for Battle Axe. And I suppose it's even POSSIBLE that you could change the activation times and effects of the powers, so if you were using a Broadsword, it would act like the Broadsword Power Set, (with Parry) and if it were a Battle Axe, it would act like the Battle Axe Power Set. (with something else instead of Parry)

It's POSSIBLE. But it ISN'T. And it isn't likely to ever be.

A crossbow simply isn't used like a bow. It isn't held like one, it isn't drawn like one, it isn't fired like one, and it doesn't have the same impact as one. (Although at least you aren't trying to turn Smashing damge into Lethal) While I suppose the devs could start considering using one Power Set for all the different types of weapons, it's more likely they will continue with their current design of separating weapons into different types. Thus, Crossbow would more likely be a new set, not a "reskinning" of Archery.

And this IS real knowledge. We know this is what the situation is because we have read the devs' description of the system, and we understand what the limitations are. This isn't like adding a new model to Claws, this is like trying to turn Claws into Katana, or Dual Blades. The Dual Blades just aren't held or swung the same way the Claws are.

Well, if they can tie animations to weapon models, I wouldn't mind Crossbows as an alternate, if they had the same cast time and effects. Another example, although further complicating things, is the idea of having a weapon drawn for another current Power Set. For instance, firing Fire Blast from a flamethrower or a magical staff. While this would add redraw time to a Set that currently doesn't have it, disrupting the balance of the set, it might be nice if a way could be found around it.

Another example is the "tricorder" used by the Medicine Pool. It would be nice if this animation could be replaced with something more suitable for a Magic user, like a spell. This isn't exactly the same thing, though, because the "tricorder" isn't really a weapon model. That's the basic idea, though, while the effect is the same, a different animation and graphical effects play.

A lot of the problem, though, is that Power Customization is per individual Power, while Weapon Customization effects the whole set. You could theoretically have a Weapon that you select, and then multiple animations to choose from that use the same Weapon. That's even more work required to do that, though, as right now you aren't given the choice to change Power Customization when you have a customizable Weapon, and vice versa. Every Power Set lets you change one or the other, but not both.

If they were going to advance the technology to allow more options like that, it would probably be for more than just putting crossbows in Archery.

I think some of the hyperbole and misunderstanding have been corrected in the thread.

When you say some of these changes may be coming in Going Rogue, that gives me hope, that all the work the Dev's have done really has made future improvements to the game easier for them to do.

I really am not so fixated on crossbows per se. I really wanted to see what has changed in the engines since the Dev's have added many of the customization features we have talked about in this thread. What are the future types of requests we can make?

I think there is merit in using the three new customization features in unique ways and I appreciate people going through the exercise of what is and is not possible.

I wantz staffs/polearms