There is: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/forumdisplay.php?f=603
Teams are the number one killer of soloists.
Thats why I missed it. It should be in the Development section.
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No it shouldn't because the majority of the idea's in there are crap and should never be thought of.
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Originally Posted by MEdelen
Thats why I missed it. It should be in the Development section.
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Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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If the community hadn't decided they were more interested in treating it like forum PvP instead of coming up with a system so that good ideas got better, then it may have been. However when we tried people just really wanted a place to B.M.W. and that's what they got.|
Originally Posted by MEdelen
Thats why I missed it. It should be in the Development section.
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The devs do look at it though, never fear. However until people start making a widespread effort to promote good ideas more than argue over bad ones, the section is gonna stay where it is.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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I'm curious, was there any specific catalyst that brought it to this state or has it been like this since the beginning?
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Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
If the community hadn't decided they were more interested in treating it like forum PvP instead of coming up with a system so that good ideas got better, then it may have been.
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stupid people thinking that they're infallible and trolls. so yes, its always been like this :P
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Originally Posted by Zamuel
I'm curious, was there any specific catalyst that brought it to this state or has it been like this since the beginning?
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Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.
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It had been getting worse over time, and when concerned mods and players tried to get together to improve things (through an open process with player feedback), a bunch of people made it clear that they liked it the way it was, even if it meant less good ideas in front of the dev's eyes. So Ex Libris and Lighthouse decided it belonged in For Fun! instead of another section.|
Originally Posted by Zamuel
I'm curious, was there any specific catalyst that brought it to this state or has it been like this since the beginning?
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It's always been a bit of a free for all, but the tendency to disagree for the sake of disagreement has grown over time. There's a reason it went from the section I posted in the most to the section I almost never go to now.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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Originally Posted by MEdelen
Thats why I missed it. It should be in the Development section.
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It used to be. It got moved after S&I produced the biggest and worst flamewars these forums have ever seen before or since.
Because it was in Development, people thought that just suggesting something was going to make it happen, and other people thought that suggestions they didn't like were definitely going to happen. I'm sure you can see how that would cause flamewars.
The theory behind moving it to For Fun! seems to be the devs' way of saying "It's only a suggestion, don't take it so seriously"
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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I hate to say this, but most games are like this when it comes to suggestions... My first real encounter with the... mindset... of the ludicrous was really Planetside. It wasn't uncommon to see junk ideas like making Tanks that mimicked (the then popular game) MechAssault topping the thread list. Sadly, the development staff assigned by SOE to Planetside had a bad habit of implementing the bad ideas. |
Originally Posted by Lemur Lad
If the community hadn't decided they were more interested in treating it like forum PvP instead of coming up with a system so that good ideas got better, then it may have been. However when we tried people just really wanted a place to B.M.W. and that's what they got.
The devs do look at it though, never fear. However until people start making a widespread effort to promote good ideas more than argue over bad ones, the section is gonna stay where it is. |
I seriously doubt that the Suggestions forum has a chance of moving anywhere in the near future though. I still see horrible ideas like trying to shove martial arts into a blaster secondary, a blast / defense archtype, equalizing Mastermind Pets with the Mastermind, shoving Trick Arrow into Dual Pistols, allowing sprint to buff fly... and... and...
and I'm just literally reading off a list of what the top threads are right now in the suggestions forums. I'm not really making these bad ideas up. These Ideas and suggestions that are more likely to cause the developers behind Posi (Mr. Miller), Castle (Mr. Grubb), and Brawler (Bruce!) choking fits rather than a pause accompanied with a we should look at this more closely.
I'm also not sure that the idea of putting it into For Fun works as well as Ex Libris and Lighthouse intended. There still are quite a few players who argue about every suggestion like any of the development staff is seriously going to even think about the matter. Then there are the players who are convinced that the more they ask about a particular feature, the more likely it is the developers are going to implement that particular feature, the quote squeaky wheel gets the oil mantra.
I honestly feel sorry for Ocho and Niv... keeping tabs on the suggestions forum has got to drive both of them bonkers.
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Well, It got demoted about the time the rednames started punishing us if we just replied yes or no to ideas, or /signed or /unsigned, or /jranger.|
Originally Posted by Zamuel
I'm curious, was there any specific catalyst that brought it to this state or has it been like this since the beginning?
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The idea is that if you only saying those, you were not contributing to thoughtful discussion.
I mostly agree with that concept . . .
except for the ideas that are sooooo bad that I like the idea of a few dozen NOs, or unsigned following the OP.
Or the regular dead horse threads.
But, we live with that now,
and that seemed to be the catalyst of demoting the forum to a less serious level.
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It was in this section, Player Help, not Development. And the developers themselves had nothing to do with the decision, it was the community team, so I don't think the devs were trying to say anything.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
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*arches eyebrow*|
Originally Posted by je_saist
I still see horrible ideas like [snip]...allowing sprint to buff fly...
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This actually brings me to one of my disappointments with the disagreements is the lack of elaboration. An example was the concept of having MA authors write content for Boomtoom. It's well meaning in theory but in the thread it was noted that it won't actually speed things up since the devs have stated that the tools are still quite different. The author respecftfully conceeded. While there are still examples of authors being rude to people who give feedback, single line responses don't help anyone.
I see two key problems with the suggestions forum. First, everyone has different opinions on what they like or dislike. In itself that's not bad but an idea that may have merit but is poorly worded/conceived stands a chance of being shot down for the heck of it as opposed to being discussed. Different playstyles will both aid and hurt this. I think the second problem is the bigger one and that's the "either or" perception of content. We will get Suggestion A or Suggestion B but not both, despite the two ideas involving entirely different parts of the dev team. Thus, there seems to be an urge to shoot down an idea for fear it'll snuff out a completely different idea they want.
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That, and the people were expecting developer commentary on their ideas. And then using the lack of for more ammo on their "The developers never listen to us" rants. And by "listen", they meant "bow down before my idea and implement it."|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
It used to be. It got moved after S&I produced the biggest and worst flamewars these forums have ever seen before or since.
Because it was in Development, people thought that just suggesting something was going to make it happen, and other people thought that suggestions they didn't like were definitely going to happen. I'm sure you can see how that would cause flamewars. The theory behind moving it to For Fun! seems to be the devs' way of saying "It's only a suggestion, don't take it so seriously" |
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Originally Posted by je_saist
allowing sprint to buff fly... and... and...
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Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
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Around the time that it happened, S&I had a couple of big problems.|
Originally Posted by Zamuel
I'm curious, was there any specific catalyst that brought it to this state or has it been like this since the beginning?
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There were many posters (a few in particular, but I can't remember their names) who believed that disagreeing with their suggestions was tantamount to trolling. If you weren't going to agree unequivocally with their ideas, well then you should just not read the threads. Never mind that there were more of these threads than there really needed to be, or that you thought that most of the idea was bad but you could come up with something to salvage the rest. If your post was anything but complete approval for the ideas within, you got reported to the mods.
The problem wasn't entirely on their end, though. There were quite a few posters who did troll through negative responses to suggestions. They would respond to any suggestion, whether well thought-out or foolish, with either personal attacks or just a simple "no". It was nonconstructive and greatly hurt the signal-to-noise ratio.
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| forum PvP |
But I'd rather S&I be too harsh than not harsh enough. Good suggestions don't happen when everyone agrees. For a suggestion to reach proper merit, it needs to be beaten, raked over the coals, and torn to shreds until all the suck is pulled out. Those offering suggestions need critics to point out all the flaws so they can fix them.
It takes a thick skin to stay and argue your point. You have to understand that attacks on your idea are not attacks on you. People can disagree with your suggestion without reflecting anything onto your intelligence and character. You have to be willing to change your suggestion if someone pokes holes in it.
So if someone's feelings get hurt because their suggestion wasn't met with agreement and praise and requests to have their children, then good. It means S&I is working right.
We'll always have Paragon.
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Not true. 3 SOs caps Fly.
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Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
To be fair, this one isn't that bad. Fly has issues - while I agree with the lower speed cap, it's still the only travel power that can't be capped without other powers/set bonuses from IOs.
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Good suggestions don't get talked about when everyone is busy shredding bad ones for the umpteenth time. Trust me, part of the problem is people are too hyped to disagree, because intellectually it's easier to argue against than it is to improve when you already agree. This is the biggest reason S&I is considered broken. The 97th argument about server consolidation will get 150 responses, while several good ideas will sink out of sight with nothing but a few token agreements.|
Originally Posted by NeverDark
But I'd rather S&I be too harsh than not harsh enough. Good suggestions don't happen when everyone agrees. For a suggestion to reach proper merit, it needs to be beaten, raked over the coals, and torn to shreds until all the suck is pulled out. Those offering suggestions need critics to point out all the flaws so they can fix them.
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People need to get better at taking some time to agree and explain why they agree as opposed to looking for things that bug them.
"Null is as much an argument "for removing the cottage rule" as the moon being round is for buying tennis shoes." -Memphis Bill
Why not give us a Suggestions category in the forums. where we can suggest things on different aspects of the game, like gameplay and graphics, base, etc....
There is no place to put any ideas or suggestions right now b/c it would be out of place. All the current forums can do now is let us ask questions. And if we make a thread about an idea we have and want to give the devs, we get flamed for being off topic and not asking a question.
Like, here are some of my suggestions:__________________________________________________ ____
How about the ability to swim underwater. That would open up some new missions and mission styles along with a new water powerset. And I don't mean zoning underwater, just go in the water, and look down, and press w...and poof, your underwater.
How about (and I've mentioned this for years), make it where you can fly up, and when you hit the top of the map, your in a new zone.....SPACE!!!! make a zone a space station. for the non flyers, make a rocketship station, like a train station in 1 zone. Or teleporter somewhere in Atlas.
How about more 3 dimensional trees that the leaves actually move seperate from the trunk....and make the truck bend with the wind.
With the water, make waves happen instead of a particle splash. Make the water actually react to you, along with grass and bushes.
Weather. In the whole time this game has been up and running, there hasn't be any rain, thunderstorms, overcast without zombies or ritki showing up, snow falling. Throw some weather out there.
Moving hair is a good idea, Tired of my guys using millions of influence on extra firm hold hair gel. It's hair, not stone. It should move.
As far as costumes, I would like to address the costume creator. How about giving us more options. how about giving us more choices for the head...of course. As for the body, Can you make it more customizable. Add upper left arm, upper right are, lower left arm, lower right arm. Chest is good, but add costume selection for abdomen. Lower body, how about as for as legging, do upper left and a seperate upper right, then lower left and lower right. It will open up more costume options, and make for some interesting costumes.
Redesign the base so we can make actual mission style rooms without having to exploit stacking. And let us place rooms right next to each other....and let us have normal sized doorways.