Stacking your ST poison with NG on targets in PVP. There is an effective hold you can stack with your Oni. CM.
You forgot Weaken's -SPecial
Yeah, my mistake. Weaken has the -special, not Envenom.
How exectly does Noxious Gas work?
If I'm reading Red Tomax right, it puts a pulsing aura on a pet of your choice for 40 seconds, and anyone within 15ft of that pet gets the -Def, -To Hit, -Dam -Res applied. These debuffs last 20s after leaving the aura, right?
There's also a massive Mag 1000 hold for 4s. Is that triggered once, or does it pulse with the aura? If the pet is holding everything in its 15ft aura for the next 40 seconds then thats pretty impressive.
"CM." - Clear Mind? You mean I get Antidote as a Clear Mind clone?
While Poison generally lacks AoE, its debuffs and buffs are hideously powerful. It really shines when you're up against bosses and elite bosses. Paired with Thugs (see Gang War), it's friggin' Godlike. Poison is a truly delicious set.
Which debuffs are hideously powerful, though?
I'd buy that statement if Weaken did more -To Hit and -Dam than Darkest Night, but it doesn't. It does the same values, only to a single target instead of a whole spawn.
If I Weaken a boss, even with it fully slotted, I don't exactly feel safe going AFK in front of him.
I havent played all the way through, so is it all down to Noxious Gas, and the increasing usefulness of the -special in Weaken as I hit the higher content?
Quote:
That. And Envenom ( Foe -DEF(All), -Res(All), -Regen, -Heal). Neurotoxic Breath is good for the Foe Hold, -Recharge, and -SPD, plus it's a cone.
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Originally Posted by DrMike2000
Which debuffs are hideously powerful, though?
I'd buy that statement if Weaken did more -To Hit and -Dam than Darkest Night, but it doesn't. It does the same values, only to a single target instead of a whole spawn. If I Weaken a boss, even with it fully slotted, I don't exactly feel safe going AFK in front of him. I havent played all the way through, so is it all down to Noxious Gas, and the increasing usefulness of the -special in Weaken as I hit the higher content? |
Quote:
You'll note that the hold in NG has a 0% chance to occur.|
Originally Posted by DrMike2000
There's also a massive Mag 1000 hold for 4s. Is that triggered once, or does it pulse with the aura? If the pet is holding everything in its 15ft aura for the next 40 seconds then thats pretty impressive.
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The most important thing about Posion that makes it stand out above the other Mastermind secondaries (against 1-3 targets) is, frankly, Weaken. Weaken's -Special doesn't just reduce their ability to heal and their mez duration. It also reduces the target's ability to buff just about everything. That includes auto-power self buffs. It's like a reverse Power Boost.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
So it does! Thanks for pointing that out, Whisper. So spell it out for me since I've never seen the power in action:
Noxious Gas has NO hold component?
Its just a AoE -Dam/-Res/-Def/-To Hit debuff then? Not that that's a bad thing 
And can you give any specific examples of what Weaken does? Sort of like people do when they're talking about how Confuse rocks when used on FF Generators and Sorcerors and so on.
eg use it on a Rikti Guardian and their AM and Force Fields are less effective?
use it on Silver Mantis and her Build Up is less effective?
auto power self buffs... does that count innate Defence bonuses? or even innate Resistance?
I am skeptical of noxious gas having no hold component. It does have an animation where the affected enemy stands there and pukes which effectively is a hold.
aha, per the wiki
Quote:
| The vomiting Hold effect is rare (less than a 1% chance of occurring per half-second), unaffected by Enhancements and buffs, and applies only to human critters and to other players in PvP, but it has enough magnitude to surpass any protection in the game and is unaffected by status resistances and PvP mez suppression. |
Triumphant Defenders Forever
Psylenz FF/Psi, ArticQuark Storm/Rad, Symon BarSisyphus Bots/psn, Max VanSydow Thugs/Dk, Cyclone Symon Bots/stm, Blue Loki Ice/Cd, Widow 46526
HelinCarnate:OMG it is so terrible. I have the option to take 3 more powers but no additional slots. Boo F'ing hoo.
Also one thing about Poison form what I've been told one can repeatedly stack the effects on baddies correct?
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The only effect that stacks is the -Regen from Envenom.|
Originally Posted by Negate
Also one thing about Poison form what I've been told one can repeatedly stack the effects on baddies correct?
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OP:
With a lvl 50 Necro/Psn MM, I have to agree that Poison is a pretty weak set for PvE. I hear it's great for PvP, but I don't do much of that. Personally, I picked it because at CoV launch it themed well with zombies. If he wasn't 50, I'd probably delete him.
Personally, I just don't see the effectiveness of Poison against hard targets. AVs resist the crap out of the debuffs, and +3 bosses are not much of an issue for any mastermind.
It's got a few other situational advantages. Between your base power and antidote, you can buff your teammates up to 30% toxic resistance without enhancing. That's always nice. Might make you a key player on some Strike Forces. It also allows you to slot procs that are usually reserved for damage resist powers very early on.
I'd admit I usually don't take more than a couple actual poison powers, though, preferring to use the slots for pools instead.
I just started playing a ninja/poison MM last weekend. I've been having fun at it with the high damage single targets. I took recall foe to make it even more fun. TP an enemy into my ninjas, debuff him before he gets his first shot off and he's dead in moments.
I've also notice that what poison powers I have work great against bosses/heroes at the end of missions. Once I get weaken on them, they do almost no damage to my ninjas, and when I get envenom on em too, they fall quickly
I have gone to find myself. If I get back before I return, Keep me here!
I cant deny that the debuffs are nice, just not "king of single target"
Once you get Weaken on the end of level boss, they do as much Damage as if you'd dropped Darkest Night on them.
And Envenom mmakes them fall as quickly as Freezing Rain would.
Darkest Night and Freezing rain affect a whole group rather than a single target.
Three levels till Noxious Gas now for me, it may suddenly all click then...
One thing I hear about it too is that Weaken not only does the -special, but I believe in the process that reduces mez resist.
If someone can confirm that, it'd be great. Because a side effect is increasing mez durations against enemies.
One thing I know for sure though you may take for granted is if you have those enemies that can knock you back through acrobatics... Weaken's -special does -Knockback unlike powerboost. So therefore they won't be able to do knockback to you.
Former King of PWNZ
Franziska Von Karma says you will listen to every word I say.
Weaken reduces the mez duration of enemy mezzes (and also Knockback like you say).
So if a boss normally holds you for 12 seconds, his holds will only last 3 seconds while he's weakened, or something along those lines. But I don't think it makes them more susceptible to your holds.
http://www.redtomax.com/data/powers/....Poison.Weaken
Quote:
Like Benumb which also works as a reverse Powerboost:|
Originally Posted by DrMike2000
So it does! Thanks for pointing that out, Whisper. So spell it out for me since I've never seen the power in action:
Noxious Gas has NO hold component? Its just a AoE -Dam/-Res/-Def/-To Hit debuff then? Not that that's a bad thing And can you give any specific examples of what Weaken does? Sort of like people do when they're talking about how Confuse rocks when used on FF Generators and Sorcerors and so on. eg use it on a Rikti Guardian and their AM and Force Fields are less effective? use it on Silver Mantis and her Build Up is less effective? auto power self buffs... does that count innate Defence bonuses? or even innate Resistance? |
Hit the healing Nictus with it on the ITF and it'll heal Rom for much less.
Hit any AV with a +def godmode with it before they pop the godmode and it'll give them much less defense.
Hit a green Mito with it and they'll heal for much less.
It won't affect resistances, inherent or otherwise. Hitting Statesman with it before he hits Unstoppable won't make him get less resistance from it, hitting Mynx with it before she hits Elude will reduce the defense she gets from it.
As for Silver Mantis, it'll reduce the +tohit she gets from Build Up, but not the +damage.
Bear in mind it doesn't work retroactively. For example, if you hit Mynx with it after she hits Elude, she'll still get the full benefit of Elude. Hitting Rikti Drones with it won't make them any easier to hit because their defenses are inherent, you've got to hit them with -def.
Support Guides for all Corruptor secondaries and Fortunatas
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The Melee Teaming Guide for Melee Mans
The subject of Poison came up again in this awesome thread:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=210745
and I thought I should ask here rather than derail Guy's discussion.
What's so great about Poison?
I've got a Ninja/Posion MM at 31 now, so I'm using the entire set barring Noxious Gas (and that sleep-inducing Posion Trap that everyone says not to take...) and I'm sort of less than impressed, same as I was when I looked at the set on paper. When I've asked this before the standard reply is that its the king of ST debuffs, but Im not seeing it.
The debuffs (Weaken and Envenom) are not only single target focussed but often weaker
than what other sets provide for an entire spawn on a per-spawn basis.
Weaken: -11.25% to Hit, -22.5% Damage
Darkest Night: -11.25% To Hit, -22.5% Damage in a 25ft radius
+ Fearsome Stare: -11.25% To Hit
Hurricane: -30% To Hit
Force Field Generator: 10% Defence at all times, better than -11.25% To Hit on +1s and +2s, and Mez protection
Envenom: -30% Res, -22.5% Def
Tar Patch: -30% Res perma on a group with slotting
Freezing Rain: -30% Res, -30% Def plus other effects (Knockdown, -Recharge)
Acid Mortar: -20% Res, -20% Def, draws aggro
Now, I get that Poison has two fairly special features:
-the -special in Envenom that reduces enemy healing and mez duration
-the mag 1000 hold in Noxious Gas, and that this makes it a very powerful set against AVs.
But it seems to pay very heavily for this specialisation, with no real effective per-spawn damage mitigation for the majorioty of PvE gameplay. Noxious Gas is a hefty set of debuffs that stack with the ST powers, but on a long enough timer to exclude it from bread and butter tactics.
Am I right in this assessment, or missing something? What do more experienced Posion users think?