If I were you, I wouldn't write guides, infact I'd delete this quick before anyone else sees it. Sorry but I seriously would. If I could tank that tank for you to do everything you think that's bad at, I would but in no way would I accept your account details. Be unafraid in seeking advice. We've all had to.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I'm trying to think if this is a little bit of a joke, too (sorry to the OP if this is not the case). Consume, potentially unskippable? Most characters in this game would love to have an endurance recovery power, and do not get it!
I also have to wonder what the OP has done with the Fighting Pool to think it does not add much to a Fiery Aura Tank. Tough is a nice add on, but layering defense on top of Fiery Aura's resists is extremely useful: even if there are a fair amount of defense debuffs in game.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
If I were you I'd try constructive criticism. I'd also learn how to write legibly. "If I could tank that tank for you to do everything you think that's bad at" huh? I'd also learn to use arguments rather than assertions. But hey, what do I know? I'd be happy to discuss and argue anything I've said. This guide comes out of two things:|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
If I were you, I wouldn't write guides, infact I'd delete this quick before anyone else sees it. Sorry but I seriously would. If I could tank that tank for you to do everything you think that's bad at, I would but in no way would I accept your account details. Be unafraid in seeking advice. We've all had to.
|
1) Fiery Aura is the worst Primary for Tanks.
2) Dual Blades might be one of the worst secondaries for Tanks.
When you combine them, did you think you were bad before? As a tank, you are terrible. The best shot you'll ever have is playing the combo as a more generalized melee fighter.
Grey Pilgrim-Consume is skippable in my mind for 4 reasons. 1) There are lots of melee fighters that don't get Endurance boosting abilities that don't have problems with endurance. 2) Even when I'm doing an /x8 mission solo, I rarely use this power more than once every 5 minutes and generally have a supply of blue inspirations dropped by mobs. It's basically a power that is convenient, not necessary. 3) If you take Energy Mastery, Physical Perfection makes it unnecessary. 4) There are multiple procs that boost endurance.
And yeah, the guide was supposed to be humorous. Unfortunately the CoX boards are well known for killing your sense of humor, mostly due to jerks.
Quote:
Feel free to pick fault with my attitude towards your post. I found that from reading it, you came across as though you not only, thought that you knew all there is needed to know but you've practically got a good reliable crystal ball sitting with you. Also did you do surveys?|
Originally Posted by ComradeCommunism
If I were you I'd try constructive criticism. I'd also learn how to write legibly. "If I could tank that tank for you to do everything you think that's bad at" huh? I'd also learn to use arguments rather than assertions. But hey, what do I know? I'd be happy to discuss and argue anything I've said. This guide comes out of two things:
1) Fiery Aura is the worst Primary for Tanks. 2) Dual Blades might be one of the worst secondaries for Tanks. When you combine them, did you think you were bad before? As a tank, you are terrible. The best shot you'll ever have is playing the combo as a more generalized melee fighter. |
Allow me to rephrase your whole post to lose all the points I've disagreed with. This is very quickly what I'd do with it.
Starting here:
Fiery Aura/Dual Blades.
So you want to make a Fiery Aura/Dual Blades tank. If you are looking for a fun and very different style of play, you may find yourself pleasantly surprised. Here are some basic things to consider if you choose to play a FA/DB Tank.
1) You CAN become a Tank NOT a Scranker. Fiery Aura is an extremely offensive power-set that trades survivability for damage. You can kill mobs faster than the vast majority of tanks and atleast find soloing to go much faster than the average tank.
2) Fiery Aura/Dual Blades is unique..or atleast rare and under rated.
On the surface it can be less survivable than most tankers but it just means it takes more brains than braun. Most of the time you may feel like you occupy a strange location in between Scrappers and Tankers but there is still a valid role to play.
Fiery Aura Overview.
Fiery Aura is the Offensive Tanker Primary. Of the 9 powers in Fiery Aura, 3 are offensive, 5 are defensive and one is a rez power, which could be defined as a mix of offensive and defensive. Burn causes enemies to run away in fear but if you time your best AoE right they will come back. Fiery Embrace is only fully effective with Fire Based attacks and this is to favour fire melee which has no secondary effects.
Dual Blades Overview.
While Fiery Aura seems like a Tanker Primary turned on its head, Dual Blades major problem is that it has no specialization at all. A jack-of-all-trades, Dual Blades allows the user to score combos that can produce Knockdown, Boost Damage, lower Defense or produce DoT. Dual Blades does not benefit from some of its secondary effects unless it can score 3 consecutive attacks. This can be a source of constant frustration that will not end until either you can properly IO your Tank or know your targets. Some targets are easier to connect with than others. On the plus side, Dual Blades does have a number of neat features. It has 3 good AoE/Cone attacks,Attack Vitals. If you can use that alot, you'll achieve great aggro control and damage output. When combined with Fiery Auras offensive capabilities, you can do some very impressive damage.
Styles of Play.
Many of these styles of play can be combined, but playing more than two strategies will be difficult.
Defense Soft-Cap Oriented.
Many Tanking enthusiasts consider this to be the most efficient, logical style of play for tanks. You can take the Fighting power pool, possibly the leadership power pool. You can buy IOs that increase your Defense bonuses. Doing this however has a price; first, you will be giving up either Dual Blade Combos, Fiery Aura Offensive Powers or your Ancillary powers. Not harsh if your very happy using Vital Strikes alot. I recommend against it for Fiery Aura/Dual Blades. Fiery Aura has no innate powers that boost Defense.
Recharge Oriented.
Fiery Auras great chance of producing a survivable, long-lasting Tank is building for recharge. Rather than attempting to augment the Resistance & Defense stats of the Fire Tank, we build for recharge so that the Tank can spam his heal which adds a small amount of Toxic Res but this can stack to large amounts. By consistently regenerating 50% of his HP every 10-15 seconds the Fire Tank can survive for a very long time. This approach also makes Rise of the Phoenix a much more useful power because it will regenerate quickly for many moments of beauty made along the way. Hasten will obviously be an integral part of your build.
Combo Oriented.
Of all the mistakes made with Dual Blades, the most common is attempting to take all 4 combos. While these combos are fun and you will certainly want to try all of them to decide which ones are best for you, taking all 4 is for many, a terrible idea. Blinding Feint to Vital Strikes is pretty damn well valued for its AoE DPS and its not to shabby on a ST. With This will allow you to take only 4 primaries, 5 if you choose to take Taunt. If you choose to go for combo orientation, remember that accuracy will be of paramount importance. If you dont hit, you dont get a combo or as good aggro control.
One of the most useful approaches to Dual Blade Combos will be combining your Knockdown attacks with Fiery Auras Burn. Because Burn causes enemies to Panic, a Fire Tank may want to keep his enemies immobilized, held or knocked down. The best immobilizes and holds youll have access to will be single target and not particularly useful for this purpose. But you will have access to 3 Knockdown attacks, 2 of which are AoE. By carefully timing your Burn patch with the Sweep combo you can keep a group of enemies in the patch long enough to kill most minions and lieutenants.
Fiery Aura Power Rundown
Blazing Aura
One of the bread and butter powers of Fiery Aura. If you arent taking the offensive powers in Fiery Aura youve completely missed the point.
Fire Shield
Another unskippable power. In addition to providing you with Resists, Fire Shield provides you with Disorient protection.
Healing Flames
One of the most important powers in the Fiery Aura set. Slot it for recharge and heal as quickly as possible. In addition to providing you with most of your survivability, Healing Flames can be stacked to boost you up to 60-80% resistance to Toxic damage. While you can slot for Resist, this isnt as useful to you as healing and recharge.
Temperature Protection
If you have to skip a power, this is the one to skip. While Temperature Protection provides you with Cold Resistance and Slow Resistance and the power requires very little slotting to be effective.
Consume.
Another potentially skippable power. Some people skip this power because it has a long recharge and an accuracy check but there are many reasons to take it. First, Fire Tanks only have 3 toggles so your Endurance expense will be lower than many other tanks. In addition, Consume has impressive range, and most importantly it only costs 0.52 endurance to use! This means that you can wait until the very last second to activate the power, giving it more bang for its buck.
Plasma Shield
Unskippable. It provides you with your protection to Hold as well as the more exotic damage types. Asap take.
Burn
After Burn was given a Mag 50 Afraid effect many Fiery Aura advocates began to advocate skipping it. Burn is useful for a number of reasons; 1) when combined with knockdown, hold or immobilize, Burn becomes a painful and horrific death for your enemies (huge DPE). 2) As a Tank enemies that run away from you can turn around almost immediately due to the Gauntlet inherent power and maybe Blazing Aura. Activating Burn is a form of MITIGATION for your Fire Tank. Enemies will generally turn around and return to melee range within 2 seconds of running out of a burn. But that provides you with 3-4 seconds where they will not attack you while you continue to do serious damage to your enemies. Finally, Burn is the only power within your Primary that provides you with protection from Immobilize but most people prefer combat jump for that.
Fiery Embrace.
If you need another power to skip, Fiery Embrace is a choice. Personally Id try to find something else to drop but its not a bad choice. Fiery Embrace only provides its total 100% damage bonus for 20 seconds to Fire Based attacks, (which makes the Pyre Mastery ancillary pool a good choice) but even an 80% damage bonus for 10 seconds isnt a bad way to go.
Rise of the Phoenix.
Another power that many people think is worth skipping under the theory of if you are a tank you shouldnt be dying. Thats a cute idea if youre playing any other Primary but Fiery Aura is offensive. No matter how good you are, you will die. Taking Rise of the Phoenix and slotting it for recharge is an excellent idea. Particularly if you build for Recharge, Rise of the Phoenix is an excellent choice. Being able to explode in a fiery ball every time you die without waiting will allow you to dominate the battlefield. The good thing about is, you may foresee an unavoidable heavy alpha you have to take but be able to carry on/make a recovery immediately after despite taking one for the team!
Dual Blades Power Rundown
Rather than discuss each power individually, it makes more sense to discuss combos as a whole.
Weaken (Nimble Slash + Ablating Strike + Typhoons Edge)
1) you have to take Nimble Slash. 2) Typhoons Edge is necessary for Sweep, the best kd combo you have. 3) Typhoons Edge is an AoE attack, which is good for tanks. On the downside, Weaken is the least impressive combo of the 4. The -def isn't that great.
Empower (Nimble Slash + Ablating Strike + Empower)
Empower is one of my favorite combos. First, the buff it gives you is stackable and second, a properly slotted tank can keep this stacked bonus to very important at times, accuracy and damage permanently on his tank as long as enemies are available. Furthermore, Empower and Weaken share 2 attacks which makes taking and slotting both easier and as Tanks have no choice but to take Nimble Slash, its a great pick. Finally, if you mess up Empower you might be able to go for Weaken and if you mess up Weaken you might be able to go for Empower. When I first played my Fire Tank up to 50 I did not take this combo and I regretted it.
Attack Vitals (Ablating Strike + Vengeful Slice + Sweeping Strike)
Its attack vitals, drools. While the bonus damage is good and works great with Empower, it wasnt a good choice for my tank. First, it required 2 powers that dont show up in any other combo. This also meant that if I missed any of my attacks there was no way to revert into a different combination. Finally, it wasnt as impressive as the Sweep Combo to me and given a choice between Attack Vitals or Sweep, Sweep is the logical choice for me.
Sweep (One Thousand Cuts + Power Slice + Typhoons Edge)
I valued this combo for a Fire Tank. Sweep will allow you to knock an entire mob off their feet while they burn alive in your Burn patch. Do not underestimate the utility of this combo. It also provides you with mitigation. Furthermore, with Weaken combo, it might make taking the other powers seem like a much better deal.
Taunt
Does a Tank always need Taunt? Probably not. I still take it on all of my builds because when I am the only tank on a team its nice for your teammates to know that you can actually make saves. It's not as good as other tanker taunts which jeopardises the potential standard of DB tankers by a certain amount.
Power Pools
Fitness. Most do, greater pace.
Fighting- If you do choose to take Fighting, dont feel like you have to take Weave as well. Limiting yourself to Tough is perfectly acceptable as Weave requires significant investments of money and slots to become useful.
Speed-Taking Hasten is a great idea for a Fire Tank. As your best option for staying alive is good rechg, Hasten is an obvious choice.
Super Jumping-If you don't want to bother with Burn (which I do not recommend) Combat Jumping will be a great idea.
Flight - Phoenix concept. A good concept.
Ancillary Pools
Arctic Mastery- One of four choices available to you. Between Chillblain, Shiver and Ice Storm you will be able to absolutely destroy your opponents movement leaving them completely vulnerable to your Burn patch. If they can barely run away, Burn becomes a much more useful option.
Earth Mastery-A great choice, versus AVs, the best choice. Quick Sand provides you with an excellent source of Slow and -fly, the slow will help make your Burn patch all the more useful.
Energy Mastery-A good choice for 3 reasons. First, Focused Accuracy will help you guarantee that your combos hit. Second, Physical Perfection will provide you with regeneration and recovery as well as making Consume a less pressing need for your build. Finally, Energy Torrent will give you one more Knockdown attack that you can use to keep enemies stuck in your burn patch. Conserve is good under end drain conditions.
Pyre Mastery- Pyre mastery is very popular. Do not take Melt Armor though, the debuff/time is terrible. Concentrate on Ring of Fire so that you can immob or char to hold in burn. Fire Blast and Fire Ball can increase damage output and pull back targets. These powers make Fiery Embrace seem like a better deal as well.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
You lost me when you first said that Fire/ has a Toxic hole, then later quoted how you can get 60-80% resist to toxic from Healing Flames. While not ideal you can easily hit 60% Toxic resists when you need it....not quite a hole IMHO.
I preferred the original version, it was actually fun to read, informative, and refreshingly honest about what it was describing.
It's OK to admit that Fire Armor for Tanks is only stronger than Fire Armor for Scrappers, and then focus on leveraging whatever strengths are available. No need to pretend like it's the Undiscovered Next Best Thing and sugar coat its wimpiness.
Commie - don't forget to post your guide in the real Guides forum, then post a link to it in the Tanker Guides thread.
Oh yeah, I'd suggest adding something about the lack of knockback protection.
Quote:
If you feel that Firetanks are only better than Fire Scrappers then your just as bad.|
Originally Posted by zeldo
Commie - don't forget to post your guide in the real Guides forum, then post a link to it in the Tanker Guides thread.
|
If I struggled with something, I wouldn't expect that of other people. I wouldn't write like that would be the result. I've tanked the STF with a Scrapper for Scrappers. I damn well know any type of Tanker can do it better. If I don't suceed with something I look at the problem deeper. OP clearly doesn't know that healing flames stacks to give good Toxic res. Better to come here with the questions than the answers.
On the plus side which I do find, a big positive, it was posted here before the guide section. I have way too much confidence in the Tanker AT than most people that's for a reason and a given.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Quote:
It is a hole. It's just a hole that you can fix. Healing Flames has a 40 second base recharge according to Mids. That's aprox. 20 seconds with full slotting for recharge (not including recharge bonuses). That means to get your 60% Toxic resist you'll have to sit around for a minute charging up. This also assumes that you are consistently hitting your heal. At least for me, I only hit Healing Flames if I need it. I think that makes it a hole. Or a vulnerability. Or whatever you want to call it.
|
Originally Posted by Calash
You lost me when you first said that Fire/ has a Toxic hole, then later quoted how you can get 60-80% resist to toxic from Healing Flames. While not ideal you can easily hit 60% Toxic resists when you need it....not quite a hole IMHO.
|
Quote:
I clearly don't know something that I mention in my original post? Some advice: your post count shows that you've been around for a while and that you're a vivacious reader and poster. But I think it has also given you a false sense of your own expertise and that has made you a sloppy reader and a rude poster.
|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
If you feel that Firetanks are only better than Fire Scrappers then your just as bad.
If I struggled with something, I wouldn't expect that of other people. I wouldn't write like that would be the result. I've tanked the STF with a Scrapper for Scrappers. I damn well know any type of Tanker can do it better. If I don't suceed with something I look at the problem deeper. OP clearly doesn't know that healing flames stacks to give good Toxic res. Better to come here with the questions than the answers. On the plus side which I do find, a big positive, it was posted here before the guide section. I have way too much confidence in the Tanker AT than most people that's for a reason and a given. |
Quote:
Worst for what? Actual tanking? It's on par with other Tanker sets in that regard, and can tank just fine. Phrasing like this is at best unclear, and at worst, misleading.|
Originally Posted by ComradeCommunism
1) Fiery Aura is the worst Primary for Tanks.
|
Quote:
| 2) Dual Blades might be one of the worst secondaries for Tanks. |
I'm honestly debating your claims with a lot of this guide, as they don't really match the numbers or actual play experience I have had: and I have had plenty with both.
Quote:
| When you combine them, did you think you were bad before? As a tank, you are terrible. The best shot you'll ever have is playing the combo as a more generalized melee fighter. |
Quote:
| Grey Pilgrim-Consume is skippable in my mind for 4 reasons. 3) If you take Energy Mastery, Physical Perfection makes it unnecessary. 4) There are multiple procs that boost endurance. |
Also, Consume is excellent for those times when you are hit with end drains, and it does happen plenty for Fiery Aura.
Quote:
| And yeah, the guide was supposed to be humorous. Unfortunately the CoX boards are well known for killing your sense of humor, mostly due to jerks. |
I did get the lightheartedness in the rest, which is just fine. I went for that in my Fire/Fire guide, and it's a good thing.
New Dawn was perhaps a little too blunt, but neither of us were being jerks. We were warning you of some shortcomings in your advice, not your tone (though your tone is getting worse the more you respond... do be willing to take criticism without taking it too personally).
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
If you had issues on a FA/DB Tanker, which would seem like a solid Tank for my playing style, it doesnt work for yours.
Id say youd be happier with a WP/ build, which isnt uncommon for 75% of people who play Tankers.
If youv had a bad experiance with a Tanker, dont make others look down on it by cutting it down.By doing this, you push other people who would acctually like, and enjoy, as well as properly play a FA/ Tanker to play WP/ or Invln/ Type builds, that they may or, may not like at all.
Im learning to not put down things, because it does no one any good.
My Red bars under my Name and Picture attest to this.Not that I mind, Red matches my Picture and Name.
Quote:
She, is someone who you get to by insulting Tankers "for sure". Sensitive... For good reason, and unfortunately you've done that.|
Originally Posted by ComradeCommunism
I clearly don't know something that I mention in my original post? Some advice: your post count shows that you've been around for a while and that you're a vivacious reader and poster. But I think it has also given you a false sense of your own expertise and that has made you a sloppy reader and a rude poster.
|
You're an insult to the Russian Motherland, my friends in Petersburg, Moscow and Krasnoyarsk don't want to know you
Russians imo, are a whats' the word, no words to describe but win my respect...
Open up alittle, have some air about you, she was hoping you might pull your post then she will of pulled hers.
Not many, I would say would of read your guide as correct because it isn't. However it's funny. More funny posts may come which'll be funny, she'll laugh at them and learn to like you because despite your standpoint you've started a trend.
If it came out on April the 1st then, then she would of said, "good guide".
I am being rude. Do you value what new people percieve or not?
She'll only Firetank the STF with a Fire/Fire Scrapper at somepoint anyway.
Quote:
I uprepped you. |
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
If you had issues on a FA/DB Tanker, which would seem like a solid Tank for my playing style, it doesnt work for yours.
Id say youd be happier with a WP/ build, which isnt uncommon for 75% of people who play Tankers. If youv had a bad experiance with a Tanker, dont make others look down on it by cutting it down.By doing this, you push other people who would acctually like, and enjoy, as well as properly play a FA/ Tanker to play WP/ or Invln/ Type builds, that they may or, may not like at all. Im learning to not put down things, because it does no one any good. My Red bars under my Name and Picture attest to this.Not that I mind, Red matches my Picture and Name. |
Quote:
Cool, thank you.|
Originally Posted by kokuryu_EU
I uprepped you.
|
Quote:
You weren't rude at all. But don't apologize for someone who didn't bother to even explain their position in the first post.
|
Originally Posted by Grey Pilgrim
Worst for what? Actual tanking? It's on par with other Tanker sets in that regard, and can tank just fine. Phrasing like this is at best unclear, and at worst, misleading.
Again, for what? Dual Blades is capable of being quite vicious in the AOE department, and my WP/DB Tanker soloed and teamed through a variety of content and AVs. I found it to be a little slower before level picking up the last three attacks in the set, but it's on par with other Tanker sets, if not better for some things, like AOE. I'm honestly debating your claims with a lot of this guide, as they don't really match the numbers or actual play experience I have had: and I have had plenty with both. This is completely off the mark. I have tanked everything in game with my Fire/Fire, and changing up for DB makes Fiery Aura tougher than it normally is by using knockdowns and debuffing mob's to hit if needed. Your AOE damage will also be quite good, due to Blazing Aura and the AOEs in Dual Blades. These two are part of why Consume is a good idea. You don't have to get locked into Physical Perfection, or wait until the 40s to have your endurance "easy." You save power picks as well, and unneeded slotting of procs that boost your endurance. I'd rather slot for higher recharge or damage than endurance. Also, Consume is excellent for those times when you are hit with end drains, and it does happen plenty for Fiery Aura. By humorous, I meant some of your advice, because some of it is flat out the opposite of what most Tank players would advise, and I thought perhaps you were being tongue in cheek. Guess I was wrong, but I did apologize in advance in my first post, just in case. I did get the lightheartedness in the rest, which is just fine. I went for that in my Fire/Fire guide, and it's a good thing. New Dawn was perhaps a little too blunt, but neither of us were being jerks. We were warning you of some shortcomings in your advice, not your tone (though your tone is getting worse the more you respond... do be willing to take criticism without taking it too personally). |
Quote:
I plus repped ya too (I don't down rep). I did use to look for those down repped for bull reasons and uprep them out of it using search, but I been playing CO and STO alot lately, with a little bit of Aion. Paragon Studios is a Studio of Devs etc I believe strongly in so still sub.|
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
Cool, thank you.
|
Right Mr Communist. I apologise for my wording but I was trying to get you to pull it, then I pull mine and for maybe you then to gather more understanding.
If it's what you want to keep then keep it. I'll bookmark it to log in to make sure it gets plenty of views as a sign of support.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Quote:
That strikes me as terrible advice. If you find a particular combination of powers to be troublesome or no fun to play, why wouldn't you want to tell people? The alternative strikes me as the worst kind of fanboyism; only tell people things you like and never EVER mention that something wasn't fun, of poor quality or just lousy. What you do in those circumstances is create an echo chamber where everything is awesome and nothing is ever bad. That's a terrible idea. I have 3 level 50 tanks, I loved my SD/WM tank and my WP/DM tank. I would recommend playing a SD/WM or a WP/DM tank to anyone. |
Originally Posted by Fire_Minded
If you had issues on a FA/DB Tanker, which would seem like a solid Tank for my playing style, it doesnt work for yours.
Id say youd be happier with a WP/ build, which isnt uncommon for 75% of people who play Tankers. If youv had a bad experiance with a Tanker, dont make others look down on it by cutting it down.By doing this, you push other people who would acctually like, and enjoy, as well as properly play a FA/ Tanker to play WP/ or Invln/ Type builds, that they may or, may not like at all. Im learning to not put down things, because it does no one any good. My Red bars under my Name and Picture attest to this.Not that I mind, Red matches my Picture and Name. |
I played my FA/DB up to 50 shortly after DB became available. While I found soloing easy and enjoyable, I struggled while teaming, particularly when doing "traditional" tank duties, like holding off AV's. I tried to compensate and tried multiple builds to address the problem, including building purely for survival. No matter what build I used I still struggled on every single TF I played. After dying in 3 seconds for the 9th or 10th time on the STF, I finally realized that the problem was my FA/DB tank, it just didn't have the powers no matter what combination I used to survive the experience. So I found a nice way of dealing with it. I stopped worrying about the traditional duties of tanking and instead built my FA/DB tank as a generic melee specialist: more survival than a scrapper, more damage than a tank.
Quote:
It's actually perfectly okay to say what your preferences were, but to say things like "you will" is abit over the top. I for one was going "What? No I wouldn't, sod that". It's best replaced with "you might" or "going by other peoples opinions..".|
Originally Posted by ComradeCommunism
That strikes me as terrible advice. If you find a particular combination of powers to be troublesome or no fun to play, why wouldn't you want to tell people? The alternative strikes me as the worst kind of fanboyism; only tell people things you like and never EVER mention that something wasn't fun, of poor quality or just lousy. What you do in those circumstances is create an echo chamber where everything is awesome and nothing is ever bad. That's a terrible idea. I have 3 level 50 tanks, I loved my SD/WM tank and my WP/DM tank. I would recommend playing a SD/WM or a WP/DM tank to anyone.
I played my FA/DB up to 50 shortly after DB became available. While I found soloing easy and enjoyable, I struggled while teaming, particularly when doing "traditional" tank duties, like holding off AV's. I tried to compensate and tried multiple builds to address the problem, including building purely for survival. After dying in 3 seconds for the 9th or 10th time on the STF, I finally realized that the problem was that my FA/DB tank |
You done something right bringing it here first, because I am a big believer in the best guides being built up by the community that are "fanbois"
Every tanker type is different, so alternative ways need to be found. If I never second looked at things because it wasn't doing what a stonetank could then I'd be one of them numb nuts thinking you'll need a stonetank and an empath with CM for the STF. I could probably go with a firetank and a good "I'd qualify them" stormie or trick archer.
This Tanker section is full of people who have pretty much ate, drank and slept tanks the difference being that we all have different regards as to what is real tanking. If I taunt controlled it and no one else is getting hurt, I am tanking to me.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Quote:
That's why I tried to use words like "might", "potentially" and "personally". For a guide I built in about an hour, I'd be an idiot to say that it's perfect. It only reflects my opinion for one thing and clearly the language I used was too strong.|
Originally Posted by New Dawn
It's actually perfectly okay to say what your preferences were, but to say things like "you will" is abit over the top. I for one was going "What? No I wouldn't, sod that". It's best replaced with "you might" or "going by other peoples opinions..".
You done something right bringing it here first, because I am a big believer in the best guides being built up by the community that are "fanbois" Every tanker type is different, so alternative ways need to be found. If I never second looked at things because it wasn't doing what a stonetank could then I'd be one of them numb nuts thinking you'll need a stonetank and an empath with CM for the STF. I could probably go with a firetank and a good "I'd qualify them" stormie or trick archer. This Tanker section is full of people who have pretty much ate, drank and slept tanks the difference being that we all have different regards as to what is real tanking. If I taunt controlled it and no one else is getting hurt, I am tanking to me. |
You also seem to be under the impression that I am unaware that there are different ways to play different combinations of powers. I am painfully aware of this, so much so that I argue if you wish to play this particular combination (FA/DB) you should plan on building your Tank as a generic melee specialist.
I see what your saying but there was not enough of that type of thing. There was too much pessimism and as such it looked to me like you put the combo down, other people down by limiting others with your limitations as I regard these quotes.
Quote:
Stuff like this doesn't make sense:|
Originally Posted by ComradeCommunism
1) You are not really a Tank, you are a Scranker.
If you are looking for a Tank that will be able to headline ITFs, STFs or LGTFs you should probably look elsewhere, you will find yourself constantly disappointed. A FA/DB tank will do more damage than a normal Tank, have more trouble holding aggro and be less survivable. You will occupy a strange location in between Scrappers and Tankers. Enjoy your new role. Fiery Aura has giant holes to Psionic damage and smaller, but significant problems in resisting Toxic and Cold damage. You will take the Fighting power pool, possibly the leadership power pool. You will buy IOs that increase your Defense bonuses. 1) no matter how much money you throw into this Tank it will still be on the bottom of the list when compared to other tanks, and 2) you wont really even be that survivable. While these combos are fun and you will certainly want to try all of them to decide which ones are best for you, taking all 4 is a terrible idea. You will not have enough slots to make this an effective strategy. Taunt Does a Tank thats not really a tank need Taunt? Probably not. I still take it on all of my builds because when I am the only tank on a team its nice for your teammates to know that you can actually take some aggro but the power is totally skippable. Fighting-Fighting might seem like a good idea, but having run the raw numbers time and time again, I can assure you that it is not nearly as useful as you would think it is. Speed-Taking Hasten is a great idea for a Fire Tank. As your best option for staying alive is continuously hitting Healing Flames, Hasten is an obvious choice. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ComradeCommunism
"If you combine Fiery Aura with some power-sets such as Dark Melee, you can use the mitigation provided by the secondary set to offset any weaknesses in the Primary."
|
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I would agree with that assessment. That was what triggered my posts: the pessimism, and some of the comments on the powers.
If you don't mind posting your build, would you? My Fire/Fire Tank has main-tanked for pretty much all the content in CoX and been fine (think the only thing I haven't really touched with him for PvE is the Shadow Shard), so I do wonder if your issues were build related.
Do realize that the Statesman TF is going to be a challenge for any Tanker. The four patrons each present their own challenge (though Scorpion isn't really bad), and Recluse with the towers up is just... ouch. You pretty much want to be at 75% defense to all with the towers up, and capped resists. Even then, Recluse will hit you, and you will need to heal. In some regards, Fiery Aura could be in a better boat there than Stone, as its heal will be up so much more.
You just have to prepare well for it. Have a good makeup of Tier 3 inspirations to get to those defense and resist levels for good chunk of time, have a buffer to help you out with Ghost Widow's hold, and have someone help heal and buff you while you're keeping Recluse's attention.
My first STF run went great with an Empath hanging out with me. My latest run... wasn't as good. I just had a Rad healing me tiny amounts (thanks Hera, heh), and a Kin tossing me SB when they remembered to. That didn't go so well, and I had some bad luck there. We still completed fine, but we did have a fair amount of defeats in that last mission, partially from team makeup, partially from bad preparation on my part.
Guide: Tanking, Wall of Fire Style (Updated for I19!), and the Four Rules of Tanking
Story Arc: Belated Justice, #88003
Synopsis: Explore the fine line between justice and vengeance as you help a hero of Talos Island bring his friend's murderer to justice.
Grey Pilgrim: Fire/Fire Tanker (50), Victory
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ComradeCommunism
It is a hole. It's just a hole that you can fix. Healing Flames has a 40 second base recharge according to Mids. That's aprox. 20 seconds with full slotting for recharge (not including recharge bonuses). That means to get your 60% Toxic resist you'll have to sit around for a minute charging up. This also assumes that you are consistently hitting your heal. At least for me, I only hit Healing Flames if I need it. I think that makes it a hole. Or a vulnerability. Or whatever you want to call it.
|
That is like saying S/L damage is a hole you can fix....by using one of your powers to plug it. Fire is close to the top in Toxic resistance thanks to Healing Flames. 60% is very nice when running Vaz...much nicer than 20% offered by several other sets
I'm clearly in the minority here, but I enjoyed the original post. I felt the OP was trying to use humor to entice readers into trying a quirky build. I never got the sense that he hated fire tanks or dual blades tanks, only that he personally found the combo to work best in a different way.
Thanks to the OP for taking the time to write down his experiences!
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
In my experience, a fiery aura tanker beats many other sets in certain categories. I read this with interest, if only because I am currently levelling a Fire/DB tanker.
"Squishiness" is relative. I would agree that Fiery Aura probably is not the toughest tanker versus late game content. Fire is preeminent in the early game, though. Every single power that you can get from your primary that contributes generally to keeping you alive is available by level 12.
Now, Invulnerability, Willpower, and Dark can offer comparable performance; but Invuln can't get one of its key defensive powers until level 26. And none of them will be as active as Fire, or offer much in the way of toxic damage. Fire is the best tanker to take to Positron. Try doing Posi on a shield or ice tanker sometime. You will suffer, suffer, suffer. Defense starts to outstrip Resistance in the mid to late game, it is true. But now those low level TFs are quite rewarding, and you come to them with advantages.
The other key thing that Fire offers is freedom to build. Because so many of its powers are optional, it works well with demanding attack sets like /DB.
You absolutely do want Weave, though. Defense and resistance are different. Adding 5% resistance is a joke; adding 5% defense is quite noticeable even if you are starting from zero.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Fiery Aura/Dual Blades
So you want to make a Fiery Aura/Dual Blades tank.
Well, first off, Im very, very sorry. You have just chosen to take two of the wonkiest, weirdest power sets available to melee characters and put them together into one, weirder, wonkier build. Odds are if you have any experience playing Tanks you have only decided to play this power combo because it sounds challenging. Most probably however, this is one of the first Tanks you have ever built and you have arrived at this power choice because it sounds cool or because of a character concept. This was how I made the terrible decision to play this Tank. However, if you are looking for a fun and very different style of play, you may find yourself pleasantly surprised. Here are some basic things to consider if you choose to play a FA/DB Tank.
1) You are not really a Tank, you are a Scranker.
If you are looking for a Tank that will be able to headline ITFs, STFs or LGTFs you should probably look elsewhere, you will find yourself constantly disappointed. Fiery Aura is an extremely offensive power-set that trades survivability for damage. If you combine Fiery Aura with some power-sets such as Dark Melee, you can use the mitigation provided by the secondary set to offset any weaknesses in the Primary. Dual Blades will not allow you to do this effectively. While the knockdown effects available in the Sweep and Attack Vitals combos can provide your Tank with a few seconds of mitigation it will not be enough in the long-run. Where Fiery Aura/Dual Blades shine is in killing stuff. You will kill mobs faster than the vast majority of tanks and find soloing to go much faster than the average tank.
2) Fiery Aura/Dual Blades is unique enough that the standard style of play for Tanks is completely inapplicable.
Due to the weird nature of Dual Blades and the weird nature of Fiery Aura you will have to learn how to play this power combo almost as if it is its own unique archetype. Sorry. A FA/DB tank will do more damage than a normal Tank, have more trouble holding aggro and be less survivable. You will occupy a strange location in between Scrappers and Tankers. Enjoy your new role.
Fiery Aura Overview
Fiery Aura is the anti-tank Tanker Primary. Of the 9 powers in Fiery Aura, 3 are offensive, 5 are defensive and one is a rez power, which could be defined as either offensive or defensive. Although it is officially a Resistance based set, Fiery Aura has giant holes to Psionic damage and smaller, but significant problems in resisting Toxic and Cold damage. Furthermore, Fiery Auras offensive abilities have strange caveats. Burn causes enemies to panic. Fiery Embrace is only fully effective with Fire Based attacks. On the plus-side, Fiery Aura has the potential of producing Tanks that do more damage than any other primary with the possible exception of Shield Defense.
Finally, Fiery Aura has one major advantage; it has only 3 toggles. In addition to lowering endurance use, Fiery Aura is unique in that Status Resistance powers are shared across the two defensive toggles. This is a small perk, but a nice one nonetheless.
Dual Blades Overview
While Fiery Aura seems like a Tanker Primary turned on its head, Dual Blades major problem is that it has no specialization at all. A bizarre jack-of-all-trades, Dual Blades allows the user to score combos that can produce Knockdown, Boost Damage, lower Defense or produce DoT. Unlike other jack-of-all-trades power sets, such as Archery or Assault Rifle, Dual Blades does not benefit from its multiple gimmicks unless it can score 3 consecutive attacks. This can be a source of constant frustration that will not end until you can properly IO your Tank. On the plus side, Dual Blades does have a number of neat features. It has 3 good AoE/Cone attacks, and the Empower Combo can be repeated ad-nauseum for a constant bonus to damage. When combined with Fiery Auras offensive capabilities, you can do some very impressive things.
Styles of Play
Many of these styles of play can be combined, but playing more than two strategies will be difficult.
Defense Soft-Cap Oriented
Many Tanking enthusiasts consider this to be the most efficient, logical style of play for tanks. You will take the Fighting power pool, possibly the leadership power pool. You will buy IOs that increase your Defense bonuses. Doing this however has a price; first, you will either be giving up Dual Blade Combos, Fiery Aura Offensive Powers or your Ancillary powers. Having tried this method of play, I recommend against it for Fiery Aura/Dual Blades. There are a few reasons: 1) no matter how much money you throw into this Tank it will still be on the bottom of the list when compared to other tanks, and 2) you wont really even be that survivable. Fiery Aura has no innate powers that boost Defense and furthermore has less Resistance and Healing to fall back on in comparison with other power pools. All in all, I dont recommend it.
Recharge Oriented
Fiery Auras best chance of producing a survivable, long-lasting Tank is building for recharge. Rather than attempting to augment the Resistance & Defense stats of the Fire Tank, we build for recharge so that the Tank can spam his heal. By consistently regenerating 50% of his HP every 10-15 seconds the Fire Tank can survive for a very long time. This approach also makes Rise of the Phoenix a much more useful power because it will regenerate quickly and fill in for any mistakes made along the way. Hasten will obviously be an integral part of your build.
Combo Oriented
Of all the mistakes made with Dual Blades, the most common is attempting to take all 4 combos. While these combos are fun and you will certainly want to try all of them to decide which ones are best for you, taking all 4 is a terrible idea. You will not have enough slots to make this an effective strategy. 2 or 3 combos is best. If you build for only 2 combos, Weaken and Empower are the logical choice. This will allow you to take only 4 attacks, 5 if you choose to take Taunt. Adding Sweep is relatively easy as well. Attack Vitals will be the most difficult combo to add to your attack chain although there are excellent reasons for doing so; primarily because Vengeful Slice provides you with knockdown. If you choose to go for combo orientation, remember that accuracy will be of paramount importance. If you dont hit, you dont get a combo.
One of the most useful approaches to Dual Blade Combos will be combining your Knockdown attacks with Fiery Auras Burn. Because Burn causes enemies to Panic, a smart Fire Tank will want to keep his enemies immobilized, held or knocked down. The best immobilizes and holds youll have access to will be single target and not particularly useful for this purpose. But you will have access to 3 Knockdown attacks, 2 of which are AoE. By carefully timing your Burn patch with the Sweep combo you can keep a group of enemies in the patch long enough to kill most minions and lieutenants.
Fiery Aura Power Rundown
Blazing Aura
One of the bread and butter powers of Fiery Aura. Youd have to be an idiot to skip it, because if you arent taking the offensive powers in Fiery Aura youve completely missed the point.
Fire Shield
Another unskippable power. In addition to providing you with Resists, Fire Shield provides you with Disorient protection.
Healing Flames
One of the most important powers in the Fiery Aura set. Slot it for recharge and heal as quickly as possible. In addition to providing you with most of your survivability, Healing Flames can be stacked to boost you up to 60-80% resistance to Toxic damage. While you can slot for Resist, this isnt as useful to you as healing and recharge.
Temperature Protection
If you have to skip a power, this is the one to skip. While Temperature Protection provides you with Cold Resistance and Slow Resistance and the power requires very little slotting to be effective, the bonuses it provides are exotic enough that they can be avoided.
Consume
Another potentially skippable power. Many people despise this power because it has a ludicrously long recharge and an accuracy check but there are many reasons to take it. First, Fire Tanks only have 3 toggles so your Endurance expense will be lower than many other tanks. In addition, Consume has impressive range, and most importantly it only costs 0.52 endurance to use! This means that you can wait until the very last second to activate the power, giving it more bang for its buck.
Plasma Shield
Unskippable. It provides you with your protection to Hold as well as the more exotic damage types.
Burn
After Burn was nerfed with Panic many Fiery Aura advocates began to advocate skipping it. Do not listen to these people. Burn is useful for a number of reasons; 1) when combined with knockdown, hold or immobilize, Burn becomes a painful and horrific death for your enemies. 2) As a Tank enemies that run away from you Panicked will turn around almost immediately due to the Gauntlet inherent power and Blazing Aura. What does this mean? Activating Burn is a form of MITIGATION for your Fire Tank. Enemies will generally turn around and return to melee range within 2 seconds of running out of a burn. But that provides you with 3-4 seconds where they will not attack you while you continue to do serious damage to your enemies. Finally, Burn is the only power within your Primary that provides you with protection from Immobilize.
Fiery Embrace
If you need a power to skip, Fiery Embrace is a decent choice. Personally Id try to find something else to drop but its not a bad choice. Fiery Embrace only provides its total 100% damage bonus for 20 seconds to Fire Based attacks, (which makes the Pyre Mastery ancillary pool a good choice) but even an 80% damage bonus for 10 seconds isnt a bad way to go.
Rise of the Phoenix
Another power that many people think is worth skipping under the theory of if you are a tank you shouldnt be dying. Thats a cute idea if youre playing any other Primary but Fiery Aura is offensive. No matter how good you are, you will die. Taking Rise of the Phoenix and slotting it for recharge is an excellent idea. Particularly if you build for Recharge, Rise of the Phoenix is an excellent choice. Being able to explode in a fiery ball every time you die without waiting will allow you to dominate the battlefield. Of course, youll have debt and make less money, but that isnt nearly the same kind of horror story it used to be. Debt is honestly not that big of a deal, and the fact that the Rez comes with a Mag 4 stun and high damage makes it a worthwhile investment.
Dual Blades Power Rundown
Rather than discuss each power individually, it makes more sense to discuss combos as a whole.
Weaken (Nimble Slash + Ablating Strike + Typhoons Edge)
Odds are you are going to take weaken. There are a few reasons for this 1) you have to take Nimble Slash. 2) Typhoons Edge is necessary for Sweep, the best combo you have. 3) Typhoons Edge is an AoE attack, so you would want it anyhow. On the downside, Weaken is the least impressive combo of the 4.
Empower (Nimble Slash + Ablating Strike + Empower)
Empower is one of my favorite combos. First, the buff it gives you is stackable and second, a properly slotted tank can keep this stacked bonus to accuracy and damage permanently on his tank as long as enemies are available. Furthermore, Empower and Weaken share 2 attacks which makes taking and slotting both easier and as Tanks have no choice but to take Nimble Slash, its a great pick. Finally, if you mess up Empower you can segue into Weaken and if you mess up Weaken you can segue into Empower. Take this combo. When I first played my Fire Tank up to 50 I did not take this combo and I still regret it.
Attack Vitals (Ablating Strike + Vengeful Slice + Sweeping Strike)
If theres a combo you can skip, its attack vitals. While the bonus damage is good and works great with Empower, it isnt a good choice for tanks. First, it requires 2 powers that dont show up in any other combo. This also means that if you miss any of your attacks there is no way to segue into a different combination. Finally, it isnt as impressive as the Sweep Combo and given a choice between Attack Vitals or Sweep (which you will probably need to make) Sweep is the logical choice.
Sweep (One Thousand Cuts + Power Slice + Typhoons Edge)
The best combo for a Fire Tank. Sweep will allow you to knock an entire mob off their feet while they burn alive in your Burn patch. Do not underestimate the utility of this combo. It also provides you with your best mitigation in the entire set. Furthermore, as Tankers are basically destined to take the Weaken combo, it will make taking the other powers seem like a much better deal.
Taunt
Does a Tank thats not really a tank need Taunt? Probably not. I still take it on all of my builds because when I am the only tank on a team its nice for your teammates to know that you can actually take some aggro but the power is totally skippable.
Power Pools
Fitness-Obviously, youll be taking Fitness.
Fighting-Fighting might seem like a good idea, but having run the raw numbers time and time again, I can assure you that it is not nearly as useful as you would think it is. If you do choose to take Fighting, dont feel like you have to take Weave as well. Limiting yourself to Tough is perfectly acceptable as Weave requires significant investments of money and slots to become useful.
Speed-Taking Hasten is a great idea for a Fire Tank. As your best option for staying alive is continuously hitting Healing Flames, Hasten is an obvious choice.
Super Jumping-If you don't want to bother with Burn (which I do not recommend) Combat Jumping will be necessary.
Ancillary Pools
Arctic Mastery-One of the best choices available to you. Between Chillblain, Shiver and Ice Storm you will be able to absolutely destroy your opponents movement leaving them completely vulnerable to your Burn patch. If they can barely run away, Burn becomes a much more useful option.
Earth Mastery-Another great choice. Quick Sand provides you with an excellent source of Slow which will help make your Burn patch all the more useful. Stalagmites may look like a good choice, but I would advise against it. The chance of Disorient is a pitiful 10%. Slot for damage.
Energy Mastery-A good choice for 3 reasons. First, Focused Accuracy will help you guarantee that your combos hit. Second, Physical Perfection will provide you with desperately needed regeneration and recovery as well as making Consume a less pressing need for your build. Finally, Energy Torrent will give you one more Knockdown attack that you can use to keep enemies stuck in your burn patch.
Pyre Mastery-Ironically, Pyre mastery is the worst of the 4 ancillaries. Do not take Melt Armor, the debuff is terrible. Concentrate on Ring of Fire so that you can hold enemies in your burn patch and Fire Blast and Fire Ball. These powers make Fiery Embrace seem like a better deal as well.