Make it so
I love this idea... and would be all for it as long as you couldn't take two same tier powers. Sadly I'm sure we'll never see it but I would love to be able to make a blaster that can shoot fire OR ice... yes I know I could make a fire/ice or ice/fire but neither let's you actually blast with fire or ice.
I think it could work as long as it didn't let you choose powers from different ATs... but maybe let us choose two different primaries to pull from and when we choose the tier 4 power for instance in one the tier 4 power in the other ceases to be an option... but again... regardless of the steps they could take to make sure it didn't become the problem it apparently is in CO I'm sure we'll never see it.
Global @radubadu
Usually playing one of the following toons blueside on Virtue:
Cadler 50 WP/SS tanker
Radubadu 46 Fire/Fire blaster
Hell Runner 35 Fire/Fire brute
i get what the op is trying to say. and i agree that it would be a nice feature. the only problem i can see is that they would have to deal with redraw issues if you mixed a weapon set with a non weapon set or another weapon set. and i do agree that once a power for a tier is chosen it locks out the other same tier attack. i would limit it to 2 sets to choose from though and not make it available to armor sets or buff/debuff sets.
To quote Ramirez in Highlander:
B A L A N C E... balance
This has none. It would require re-engineering most of the game. CO was engineered with that in mind from scratch, and even it doesn't actually let you just randomly pick powers from all over.
It's also a great way to make the game almost unplayable for new players. You end up have to constantly respec to remove unplayable combinations.
Animation times become a major factor. Getting a working attack chain becomes quite a feat with mixed powers, especially mixing armed and unarmed powers. A lot of animations would probably need to be redone.
This is a glorious idea when put into a game working from scratch, but as a retrofit it's a non-starter really. CoH2 anyone?
Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.
Redraw is already something virtually every weapon set has to deal with, so I don't see that as a dealbreaker.
/signed.
I want a Necro/ Mastermind with pistol attacks.
The problem I see with this is balance. Sets of the same type don't follow identical progressions. So making a mixed set even with the rule of one power from each tier would be horrible for balance.
For example a Blaster could easily take 4 or 5 AoE attacks plus one of the crashless nukes and out AoE any other Blaster. Devices gets Targeting Drone instead of Build Up. The idea being the drone boosts your to hit all of the time while Build Up occasionally boosts damage. With this I could take both.
Buff sets are similar. Kinetics is a great set for damage boosting but is weak on mitigation. However a lot of it's damage boost is in fulcrum shift so putting that as the T9 in would be an excellent tradeoff for a lot of the buff sets. I could combine several sets to make something horribly OP pretty easily, no set has excellent powers at every tier but for every tier has at least one set with an excellent power there.
I could go on but I think you get the point.
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please go up and read what i wrote. i suggest that it be limited to attack sets only. not buff/debuff, armor/shield, or manipulation sets, except for a dom as that is their attack set. i also suggest that it limit the choices to 2 sets. now, i also agree that this is not something to do in this version of CoX, but if there are any plans for a CoX2 i give a 100% signed to at least trying this in alpha and making changes to it for balance issues and the like.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
The problem I see with this is balance. Sets of the same type don't follow identical progressions. So making a mixed set even with the rule of one power from each tier would be horrible for balance.
For example a Blaster could easily take 4 or 5 AoE attacks plus one of the crashless nukes and out AoE any other Blaster. Devices gets Targeting Drone instead of Build Up. The idea being the drone boosts your to hit all of the time while Build Up occasionally boosts damage. With this I could take both. Buff sets are similar. Kinetics is a great set for damage boosting but is weak on mitigation. However a lot of it's damage boost is in fulcrum shift so putting that as the T9 in almost any buff set would greatly increase the damage potential of the set a lot. I could combine several sets to make something horribly OP pretty easily, no set has excellent powers at every tier but for every tier at least one set has an excellent power or two. Even just Traps with Fulcrum shift would be pretty OP. I could go on but I think you get the point. |
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You did, but the OP didn't and I was responding to him. Even with the limit on Attack sets it's pretty broken. Do Fire & Assault Rifle replace Sniper Rifle, Beanbag and Ignite with Fire Breath, Aim and Blazing Bolt. You basically took AR, already the premier AoE set and upped it's AoE damage and Snipe damage significantly at the cost of a single target stun and an annoying to use single target blast. Sure it has some redraw but I could live with it for that kind of AoE power. There are other combinations (including some that are probably better) but this was the first one I thought of.
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Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
please go up and read what i wrote. i suggest that it be limited to attack sets only. not buff/debuff, armor/shield, or manipulation sets, except for a dom as that is their attack set. i also suggest that it limit the choices to 2 sets. now, i also agree that this is not something to do in this version of CoX, but if there are any plans for a CoX2 i give a 100% signed to at least trying this in alpha and making changes to it for balance issues and the like.
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Even if it's limited to just attack sets, it still doesn't work, as attack sets don't follow the same progression and aren't balanced to the same end goal. Even if you pick Blaster Blast sets, you can pick one Snipe from every set and end up with something like five, for the simple fact that they don't come at the same levels. You could grab multiple control powers in the same way. On the melee side, certain sets are designed to be single-target centric, others to be more AoE-heave, some are designed to hit hard and so on. Ignoring the fact that you could double-up on Build Ups, you can actually grab Build Up AND Rage, and you could also grab Knockout Blow, Seismic Smash and Energy Transfer in the same set.|
Originally Posted by Sharker_Quint
please go up and read what i wrote. i suggest that it be limited to attack sets only. not buff/debuff, armor/shield, or manipulation sets, except for a dom as that is their attack set. i also suggest that it limit the choices to 2 sets. now, i also agree that this is not something to do in this version of CoX, but if there are any plans for a CoX2 i give a 100% signed to at least trying this in alpha and making changes to it for balance issues and the like.
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The powers are grouped as they are both to avoid people taking too many weak powers and gimping themselves, as well as to force people to take a fair bit of weaker powers to avoid overpowering them. Set balance has never existed on a power-to-power level of comparison. Sets are balanced as monolithic units, designed to be consistent within themselves. Swapping out powers ad-hoc is a great way to take that balance, crumple it up and toss it in the trash.
I'm not against mixing up attack sources, but I'd rather this were done by expanding Epic power pools to include weapons.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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well CO has frame works, pick "fire" and you have a list of fire powers at each level, to choose a different tab and pick from there.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Even if it's limited to just attack sets, it still doesn't work, as attack sets don't follow the same progression and aren't balanced to the same end goal. Even if you pick Blaster Blast sets, you can pick one Snipe from every set and end up with something like five, for the simple fact that they don't come at the same levels. You could grab multiple control powers in the same way. On the melee side, certain sets are designed to be single-target centric, others to be more AoE-heave, some are designed to hit hard and so on. Ignoring the fact that you could double-up on Build Ups, you can actually grab Build Up AND Rage, and you could also grab Knockout Blow, Seismic Smash and Energy Transfer in the same set.
The powers are grouped as they are both to avoid people taking too many weak powers and gimping themselves, as well as to force people to take a fair bit of weaker powers to avoid overpowering them. Set balance has never existed on a power-to-power level of comparison. Sets are balanced as monolithic units, designed to be consistent within themselves. Swapping out powers ad-hoc is a great way to take that balance, crumple it up and toss it in the trash. I'm not against mixing up attack sources, but I'd rather this were done by expanding Epic power pools to include weapons. |
So you would still defautl to say the Fire/em "framework" but could change tabs to pick a new power.
Maybe for balance something like a 5% debuff on "extra sets" and make it cumulative so if your
Fire/ice/electric
fire works at 100%
ice is 95%
elec is 90%
etc
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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The thing is that CO was designed from the keel out for this sort of power selection. Trying to add it to CoH at this point would be a balance nightmare (heck, CO is horribly unbalanced despite being designed with it from the keel out). It's the sort of feature that we might see in CoH2 but are unlikely to see in CoH.
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Originally Posted by Cuppa_LLX
well CO has frame works, pick "fire" and you have a list of fire powers at each level, to choose a different tab and pick from there.
So you would still defautl to say the Fire/em "framework" but could change tabs to pick a new power. Maybe for balance something like a 5% debuff on "extra sets" and make it cumulative so if your |
Open powerset options for the powergamer:
Tier 1: which tier 1 power does the most damage/DPS/DPE? Pick that.
Tier 2: which tier 2 power does the most damage/DPS/DPE? Pick that.
.
.
Tier 9: which tier 9 power does the most damage/DPS/DPE? Pick that.
(In case you don't catch my drift, I am firmly against this suggestion. As in "not only no, but #@!% no.")
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Open powerset options for the powergamer:
Tier 1: which tier 1 power does the most damage/DPS/DPE? Pick that. Tier 2: which tier 2 power does the most damage/DPS/DPE? Pick that. . . Tier 9: which tier 9 power does the most damage/DPS/DPE? Pick that. (In case you don't catch my drift, I am firmly against this suggestion. As in "not only no, but #@!% no.") |
tier 1:fire
tier 2:fire
tier 9:fire
Im against this idea myself but if people only wanted pure damage you would see a whole lot more fire toons running around.
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This is why I said damage/DPS/DPE, because that is NOT strictly fire each time.
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Originally Posted by Lucky666
tier 1:fire
tier 2:fire tier 9:fire Im against this idea myself but if people only wanted pure damage you would see a whole lot more fire toons running around. |
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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I like this idea.
Here's what I'd make: Claws/SR Brute
I'll skip Swipe.
I'll keep strike (good dps).
Slash is now Gash
I'll keep spin 
I'll keep follow up
I'll skip taunt
I'll swap focus for rage
Eviscerate is now soul drain or fire sword circle. I haven't decided which I like more.
Shockwave is now Foot Stomp.
I'll keep focused fighting
I'll swap Focused Senses for Battle Agility for both range AND AoE defense instead.
I'll swap agile for Dull Pain
I'll swap active defense for Entropy Shield (to keep the DDR, but a nice toggle)
I'll swap dodge for Against All Odds.
I'll swap evasion for Phalanx
I'll swap lucky for Energize
I'll swap Quickness for Shield Charge
I'll swap Elude for Granite (I'm thinking that maybe my other toggles won't drop)
Yup, I like this idea, which is why it probably shouldn't happen. 
tldr: I'm making a broot with spin, footstomp, rage, followup, soul drain, shield charge, against all odds, and dull pain.
So i was asking myself, "self with Doppleganger coming Soon(TM) what is left to seperate CO and CoX"
and 2 things came to mind "open powers" and "stances"
The stances are easy enough to add to the tailor one day but the real meat is something different.
Open Archtypes
No i'm not talking CoX's failed alpha of "free for all powers" which was put into CO
Just open up the archtypes.
Want a mixed martial artist?
Make a Scrapper and pick from Katanna AND MA powers! it would still unlock at the same teirs just more options, all the options for your AT.
Thoughts?
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM