Bad Craziness = Good for CoH?


Acemace

 

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No links, but there is some very bad craziness over at the other superhero game. If you don't know what is happening it is entertaining for anyone who didn't go over to that game to read. There is some discussion at MMORPG.com that give a brief overview.

So will that help City if those players quit? Or are those who are still playing over there, over there because they were tired of City? Will they end up playing other MMOs instead?

Personally I think there will be a small uptick as people come back, but I think the initial blush of the new game wore off quickly and those who were coming back are already here.

What you you think?


Current favs: Champ: Frau Schmeterling-22 MM 50s: NOTW-Blaster, Cat-Girl Commando-corr, Queen of the Dawn-PB, NOTW-Def, Peterbilt-Brute, IcedTNA-Tank, Archilies-scrap, Mann Eater-stalk, Redemptive Soul-toller, Mt Fuji of A-Team-Tank, Hot Stuff Vale-Dom
My MiniCity

 

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While I try not to involve myself too heavily in predicting what players will do next, I do have some "I told you so"s to hand out to a few people.


 

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I've played it and I have to say that I thought it was pretty meh, the videos aren't from real gameplay or at least not as far as I could see, the graphics were poo and that was when I turned 'em all the way up.

I'm not a fan of the WoW mechanics and quest system, makes the pace seem slow. Then again, what would I know? I'm not 1 of the millions of illiterate and rude 9 year olds that play WoW on their parents dime.
Idk, I guess I might just be set in my ways but CoX still rules the roost for me.

Will people come back? I think that whoevers back now is all that've seen the light and returned, people seem to like that style of play, why they do is beyond my understanding though.

Another theory is that they wanna stay for the games beginning to see if it gets better, which it more then likely will but still not enough to trump CoX, imo.

So eh, good riddance i say.



Member of the Stoned Templars


{|-|} Easy Kills {|-|} A&TC {|-|}

 

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If they come back, they come back. If they don't, eh, the server has moved on without'em.


"Champion (the Community Server... or GTFO) is like a small town where everyone knows each other's names, for better or worse." -kojirodensetsu.
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." - Maslow's Hammer

 

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Many people know that I purchased two lifetime subscriptions to Champions Online, and I don't regret it.

IMO, it's a decent game, and these are just growing pains the game is going through. Is it as good as City of Heroes now? No. Was it in better shape than City of Heroes was in when it launched? Yes. It's a good secondary MMOG for me to play when I'm bored with City of Heroes, and it should only get better over time.

Anyone remember the nerdrage over Regen? The Arena? GDN? Or Heaven forbid, ED? Yeah, that's what Champions Online is going through now. It'll lose some subscribers over it, just like City of Heroes did over those changes. But, I fully expect it to be around two years from now, and the majority of the players playing it never having experienced what's going on now, much like the majority of the City of Heroes players never went through the Regen nerfs, GDN, and ED.

FWIW, most of my friends that I made playing City of Heroes with back in 2005 and 2006 left the game two or three years ago, played Champions Online with me when it launched, quit after a couple of months, and are now playing Star Trek Online. None of them have any intention of returning to City of Heroes. As far as they are concerned, the game is old and dated, and they have the feeling of been there, done that. I disagree and miss them, but I don't see them coming back.


@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too

 

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The nerdrage over those changes in CU and CoX have the same primal root. Don't know what's happening over at CU, but I will say that if I were running that show, I'd look long and hard at the effect sweeping changes I introduce into an active game have on the community, for better and for worse.

I still think ED was a good way to go... making the mechanics out and visible (and Inventions) really improved CoX wonderfully.


 

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Quote:
Anyone remember the nerdrage over Regen? The Arena? GDN? Or Heaven forbid, ED? Yeah, that's what Champions Online is going through now. It'll lose some subscribers over it, just like City of Heroes did over those changes. But, I fully expect it to be around two years from now, and the majority of the players playing it never having experienced what's going on now, much like the majority of the City of Heroes players never went through the Regen nerfs, GDN, and ED.
I think you're missing the point of the main line of complaining over there. Many of those players played CoH as well, and did go through those changes you listed. They also expected Cryptic, especially Emmert, to learn from those mistakes and not make them again in the very next game. Plus, the changes going in, and the paid expansion, are superceding filling in major gaps in launch content and bug fixes.

The game's been out long enough for wise folks to realize that the tune hasn't changed, and they're voicing their concerns. Not surprised at all, and I don't blame them a bit. I'd also be surprised if something similar didn't happen during the first 6 months of Star Trek being live. Once is a fluke, twice brings doubt, but three times would be a pattern.


To answer the OP's question about that mess being good for CoH: I think all it will do is have the people that had both games play this one more. People left this game never to return, burned their bridges, and nothing this game does will make them come back.


Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.

 

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Reading some of the comments at MMORPG, several people wondered about STO and a few mentioned they were staying away from it at launch.

It will be interesting how GR is preceived. Most will see it as an update which will do little to increase participation.


Current favs: Champ: Frau Schmeterling-22 MM 50s: NOTW-Blaster, Cat-Girl Commando-corr, Queen of the Dawn-PB, NOTW-Def, Peterbilt-Brute, IcedTNA-Tank, Archilies-scrap, Mann Eater-stalk, Redemptive Soul-toller, Mt Fuji of A-Team-Tank, Hot Stuff Vale-Dom
My MiniCity

 

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I'd prefer to look at it like CoV was, an expansion. Which if you looked at the trend back when it was launched, the number o' subscribers skyrocketed.


"Champion (the Community Server... or GTFO) is like a small town where everyone knows each other's names, for better or worse." -kojirodensetsu.
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." - Maslow's Hammer

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobalt_Azurean View Post
I'd prefer to look at it like CoV was, an expansion. Which if you looked at the trend back when it was launched, the number o' subscribers skyrocketed.
Right. And like CoV was at the time, GR will bring a graphic upgrade as well, for those whose comps can handle it. There's a bunch of folks that say "Yeah, it's an ok game, but it looks old." Pushing aside that yes, this game is old, they (hopefully) won't be able to say that when they see Ultra mode.


Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.

 

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Originally Posted by White Hot Flash View Post
Right. And like CoV was at the time, GR will bring a graphic upgrade as well, for those whose comps can handle it. There's a bunch of folks that say "Yeah, it's an ok game, but it looks old." Pushing aside that yes, this game is old, they (hopefully) won't be able to say that when they see Ultra mode.
It does look pretty good, from what I saw at HeroCon. Bring it on.


"Champion (the Community Server... or GTFO) is like a small town where everyone knows each other's names, for better or worse." -kojirodensetsu.
"If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." - Maslow's Hammer

 

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Originally Posted by Peterbilt View Post

So will that help City if those players quit?

Doubtful, unless Going Rogues offers features that make this game feel like a new experience to old players who've left.

AE brought a good chunk of veteran players back, because it was innovative, but then found them turning around and leaving after Posi spazzed out over leveling.

Not shooting themselves in the foot would need to be in the mix with a very good GR expansion to get those old players to resub.

.






 

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Originally Posted by Acemace View Post
AE brought a good chunk of veteran players back, because it was innovative, but then found them turning around and leaving after Posi spazzed out over leveling.
Yeah. What the AE nerfs lost sight of is that this is a game that offers many slots on many servers. It's also a game whose appeal comes largely from experiencing the same content with different powersets and strategies. Given these factors, zero to max level in a week is not really a disaster: especially since now you get to outfit the characters you liked best with loot.

But Champions? Gaah. They couldn't keep my interest for two weeks. I haven't seen any indications that any updates address the pitiful melee play, or changed the reward structure to create incentives for social teaming while adding replayability. You can join someone's mission arc and run with it and earn your XP, inf, and drops even if you don't have the same contact active in this game. They. Didn't. Have. That. There.



<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison

 

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There have been a few posts from new accounts in Player Questions and Suggestions & Ideas from people who just came here from CO, so if not a major uptick in new subscriptions, at least it has brought in a few (and that's just since the "must buy the new filler content" announcement of late last week.)


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Originally Posted by SpyralPegacyon

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acemace View Post
Doubtful, unless Going Rogues offers features that make this game feel like a new experience to old players who've left.

AE brought a good chunk of veteran players back, because it was innovative, but then found them turning around and leaving after Posi spazzed out over leveling.

Not shooting themselves in the foot would need to be in the mix with a very good GR expansion to get those old players to resub.

.
Yep, that's exactly what happened. Most of my friends that I made playing City of Heroes in 2005 and 2006 and had left in 2007 that I referenced in a post above actually came back to the game when Issue 14 launched. They all joined the villain group I had made a couple of years ago, and we had a good time doing AE missions. Then Positron made his announcement, shot himself in the foot, and all of my friends that came back to City of Heroes with Issue 14 left that very day. I was looking through my VG member list last week, and saw so many names that haven't been on in 200+ days.


@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too

 

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The AE change was bad, but still didnt curb power leveling at all. It doesnt take any real thought on how to manipulate the system in AE or regular missions to maximize XP gain (for PL) or get faster drops when solo. It may not be as fast as before the change, but it is faster than anything post aggro cap.

I have not tried CO. I am letting my second CoX account lapse. I will use repecs to get IO's off of toons and the server transfer feature to keep names on my primary account.

hamfisted implementation and stuffing it in to the elbow is not a good practice, especially when repeated over and over.


YMMV---IMO
Ice Ember

 

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I say let it play out.. See where CO goes, see if survives for acouple of years.


 

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Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord View Post
Anyone remember the nerdrage over Regen? The Arena? GDN? Or Heaven forbid, ED? Yeah, that's what Champions Online is going through now.

Could that be, perhaps, because the same "vision" that nearly broke this game is the same "vision" that is driving that one? Where there is Emmert, there is ruin.


 

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Except Jack Emmert hasn't had much to do with Champions Online since November 2008, when he handed off the reigns to Bill Roper, for better or worse.


@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too

 

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<QR>

This is bad for CoH, competition is good for the customers and keeps the devs and marketing motivated. Oh well, on to DCUO conspiracy theories.


Infinity and Victory mostly
dUmb, etc.
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I think you're missing the point of the main line of complaining over there. Many of those players played CoH as well, and did go through those changes you listed. They also expected Cryptic, especially Emmert, to learn from those mistakes and not make them again in the very next game. Plus, the changes going in, and the paid expansion, are superceding filling in major gaps in launch content and bug fixes.
I kinda figured Emmert would pull something that would get the players in a tizzy. Hence the desire to avoid That Other Hero Game at all costs...

Quote:
The game's been out long enough for wise folks to realize that the tune hasn't changed, and they're voicing their concerns. Not surprised at all, and I don't blame them a bit. I'd also be surprised if something similar didn't happen during the first 6 months of Star Trek being live. Once is a fluke, twice brings doubt, but three times would be a pattern.
Wait. What? Emmert is involved with Star Trek Online?!

...seriously...?

(much wailing and gnashing of teeth)


MA Author: Look for my eight arcs under @Witty Librarian!
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Originally Posted by WittyLibrarian View Post
I kinda figured Emmert would pull something that would get the players in a tizzy. Hence the desire to avoid That Other Hero Game at all costs...

Wait. What? Emmert is involved with Star Trek Online?!

...seriously...?

(much wailing and gnashing of teeth)
... Uh... yeah. He handed Champions Online over to Bill Roper a year and a half ago so he could concentrate on Star Trek Online.


@Celestial Lord and @Celestial Lord Too

 

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Originally Posted by Celestial_Lord View Post
... Uh... yeah. He handed Champions Online over to Bill Roper a year and a half ago so he could concentrate on Star Trek Online.
Emmert's taint is difficult to remove. As he is the Chief Creative Officer, he will still have plenty of input (wanted or no) in Champions Online. I can only pity Bill Roper; he has dealt with difficult higher-ups before, during his time at Blizzard.


 

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Originally Posted by The_White_Shadow View Post
Emmert's taint is difficult to remove. As he is the Chief Creative Officer, he will still have plenty of input (wanted or no) in Champions Online. I can only pity Bill Roper; he has dealt with difficult higher-ups before, during his time at Blizzard.
Ah, yes, but however so difficult to remove.. We're getting rid of it.. Someone get the Oxyclean.

What? It gets even the toughest stains out.


 

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Originally Posted by Slax View Post
<QR>

This is bad for CoH, competition is good for the customers and keeps the devs and marketing motivated. Oh well, on to DCUO conspiracy theories.
I don't know...CoH made it 5 years without another super-hero MMO on the market. Didn't seem to hurt too much. If anything, competition hurt us, cause Cryptic split the dev team to go work on the Marvel game that went thud, and we were left with the Freem 15 for a couple of years. We might have had a lot more in this game if they'd had more help during that time, and we still had quite a bit from just that group, all things considered.


Loose --> not tight.
Lose --> Did not win, misplace, cannot find, subtract.
One extra 'o' makes a big difference.