Broadsword, Battle Axe, War Mace: Alternate Animations long overdue.
By
Angello,
Posted on: 2010-01-22 03:24 in Suggestions and Ideas
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Originally Posted by Angello
Power customizations has been one of the most amazing things to come out of this game, and believe me, I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth.
I know the developers have hinted towards adding more to Power Customization and I'd like to draw everyone's attention to one of the most stale animation sets in the whole game: The BS/Axe/Mace animations. It's hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that Martial Arts received brand new animations for a set that already used unique animations when three power sets, featuring VERY different weapons all share the same animations! I would really like to see a nice set of alternate animations for these sets, more specifically... two handed animations. A majority of the weapons look absolutely silly being flung around with one hand. The Carnival Mallet, Rikti broadsword, Lumberjack Axe, and Warhammer look particularly silly. I personally have been hoping for these alternate two-handed animations ever since Issue 2 when katana recieved completely new animations for this exact reason. |
Martial Arts and Super Strength got new animations to satisfy a demand for a "Street Fighting" set without actually having to make a new set. That was the only reason they got them. Also, they seem to have been designed specifically to look good with Shield Defense, especially the KO Blow alternate, it looks like an upward shield bash. As evidence of this, look at the alternate animations they gave Martial Arts, they are ALL right handed animations and they do not alternate, which says to me they designed them with shields in mind. The Jab alternate is the only one that doesn't seem to work with a shield, unless the idea is for it to be a quick shield smash.
A LOT of animations are shared between powers. Even the alternate animation for Eagle's Claw is a recycled one, it's the same animation as Stun from Energy Manipulation.
Thunder Strike, Total Focus, Tremor: same animation
Air Superiority, Bonesmasher, Havoc Punch, Haymaker, Seismic Smash: same animation
Most of the blast sets use a set of 10-12 animations between 7 powersets or so.
The problem you're going to find here is probably that the devs don't want to give a few more sets alternate animations, which would set a precedent and people would start clamoring for new animations for EVERYTHING, which is a crap ton of work.
Besides, we still don't know what all is going to be in Going Rogue, alternate animations for stuff may be in there somewhere.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
The big difference though is that 'blast' sets are all basically the same concept (shoot stuff out of your hands) and that most of the new custom weapons actually look BAD paired with these animations.
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No, they very much do not.|
Originally Posted by Angello
The big difference though is that 'blast' sets are all basically the same concept (shoot stuff out of your hands) and that most of the new custom weapons actually look BAD paired with these animations.
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As far as getting animation for customization for Battle Axe, Broadsword or War Mace, or indeed any weapon set, is fairly slim, since they already have customization in the form of custom weapons. That's why they got nothing with power customization when it came out.
I am most certainly not in the slightest against adding new animations for these sets, but I cannot agree with your argument as to why it's imperative.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I thought we already covered that, Sam. The proper phrase is: No, not in my opinion.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
No, they very much do not.
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That is to say, I think Battle Axe doesn't look so bad with the animations except for perhaps a select few weapons. But Broadsword just looks bad *period*, to me.
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I tend to give as much regard as I receive. And while I'm perfectly willing to agree to disagree with you (and I do |
Originally Posted by Leo_G
I thought we already covered that, Sam. The proper phrase is: No, not in my opinion.
That is to say, I think Battle Axe doesn't look so bad with the animations except for perhaps a select few weapons. But Broadsword just looks bad *period*, to me. |
), when I see a post to the effect of "this sucks" aimed towards something I like, my response tends to be "No, it does not."On Broadsword, I have to say that it is by FAR my favourite powerset in the entire game. Some powers from some sets I might like more than some powers in Broadsword, but in terms of feel and look, I would accept no substitute. Broadsword is a brutal, inelegant set that emphasises raw hitting power and explosive pillar-of-pain damage, and unlike its cousins War Mace and Battle Axe, it has by far the greatest weapon length, making the swings feel even harder. This is what I enjoy about it, and I have to say - none of the other sword, or indeed melee sets come even close to the same feel. Even Super Strength pales in comparison,
I hope it's understandable that I might not take it well to suggest that it sucks.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I'm just checking, but I think our last issue just started introducing alternate animations for two sets with the assumption we would get more down the road. Considering that this was our latest issue, it isn't 'long overdue'.| Broadsword, Battle Axe, War Mace: Alternate Animations long overdue. |
I suspect you'll see it in the future. But there are far, far more important things to add to power customization (customized APPs/PPPs). Things like those affect a lot more players than your broadsword scrapper/stalker.
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And half that equates to fancying the damage of the set, not the animations of the set. I've already mentioned before why I don't like how the set looks but I'll save it and just say it stems from the *weak* animation of its strongest attack, Headsplitter. The weapon doesn't look like it has weight, the little 'stomp out with the leading foot' is just comical and you don't swing a sword as if the counter weight is on the point of the weapon! If you're really slicing, why the 'hey' would you even stop the attack mid swing!? It's atrocious!
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I tend to give as much regard as I receive. And while I'm perfectly willing to agree to disagree with you (and I do
), when I see a post to the effect of "this sucks" aimed towards something I like, my response tends to be "No, it does not."On Broadsword, I have to say that it is by FAR my favourite powerset in the entire game. Some powers from some sets I might like more than some powers in Broadsword, but in terms of feel and look, I would accept no substitute. Broadsword is a brutal, inelegant set that emphasises raw hitting power and explosive pillar-of-pain damage, and unlike its cousins War Mace and Battle Axe, it has by far the greatest weapon length, making the swings feel even harder. This is what I enjoy about it, and I have to say - none of the other sword, or indeed melee sets come even close to the same feel. Even Super Strength pales in comparison, I hope it's understandable that I might not take it well to suggest that it sucks. |
According to BaBs, you can either have alternate animations for a power OR you can have alternate weapons.
So if you want alternate animations for Broadsword, et. al, you would have to give up the ability to select your Broadsword and set its color.
I don't guess this is an engine limitation, but setting it up so you could have both could take as long as Power Customization did in the first place. There was probably a reason BaBs chose not to do it that way.
Also keep in mind that while you may be given alternate animations for certain powers, those animations MUST have the same animation time as the existing one. So trading KO Blow for Jab, for example, wouldn't be possible. (And neither would be trading Energy Transfer's new animation for the old one, all you thinking it. 
)
But that's not fair 
MA and SS can customize the color of their effects AND choose animations...
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I'll state again that Katana recieved new animations because it shared the ugly BS/Axe/Mace animations in Issue 2
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Originally Posted by Tonality
Considering that this was our latest issue, it isn't 'long overdue'.
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I suppose that in issue 2 you could choose alternate animations too? It sounds to me like you are asking for something that we have only recently seen in game.|
Originally Posted by Angello
I'll state again that Katana recieved new animations because it shared the ugly BS/Axe/Mace animations in Issue 2
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The ability to choose alternate animations, unless I'm mistaken, came out in issue 16. I don't know why SS and MA were the two sets chosen for alternate animations over others, but these were the two the devs chose to prioritize.
I also suspect that more of this is in the works.
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That's not what BABs' post says at all. It's talking about the visual effects (in the case of that post, the actual point when a Spines attack hits an enemy, gives the HIT! flash and the green toxic effect). It says absolutely nothing about the animation of the attacks.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
According to BaBs, you can either have alternate animations for a power OR you can have alternate weapons.
So if you want alternate animations for Broadsword, et. al, you would have to give up the ability to select your Broadsword and set its color. |
But don't get me wrong, I'm not on the OP's side either. As has been stated, new animations for these sets are not "long overdue," simply because alternate animations were only introduced in the most recent issue. You can say they're "long overdue" when more sets start getting new animations in future issues.
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Originally Posted by Angello
I'll state again that Katana recieved new animations because it shared the ugly BS/Axe/Mace animations in Issue 2
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Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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I just disagree. Of all the powers in the game, Broadsword's animations look the strongest to my eye. I may be no expert, and the pillar of pain certainly helps, but I'll take Broadsword over Super Strength any day. In fact, I've done just that for at least one character.|
Originally Posted by Leo_G
And half that equates to fancying the damage of the set, not the animations of the set. I've already mentioned before why I don't like how the set looks but I'll save it and just say it stems from the *weak* animation of its strongest attack, Headsplitter. The weapon doesn't look like it has weight, the little 'stomp out with the leading foot' is just comical and you don't swing a sword as if the counter weight is on the point of the weapon! If you're really slicing, why the 'hey' would you even stop the attack mid swing!? It's atrocious!
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As far as Head Splitter goes, I believe the "stop" animation is intended to display it sticking into your intended target, rather than cleaving through. Personally, I'd prefer a version that swung all the way through, like what Hack does while flying, but even what we have isn't bad. And again, I love the animation when done with a long weapon. A giant woman wielding the stupidly oversized Legacy Broadsword is practically life-altering
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Alright, well fair enough. I do like some of the Broadsword animations.
The main thing that bother me about Broadsword is it looks like a 'wasted potential' type of weapon. Basically I see my character holding this ******* sword with a long hilt and think "Why doesn't he throw in a few two-handed swings for more power?". Seeing that free hand has started to bother me lately concept wise.
Eh, I'm just being anal.
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If I didn't think I'd get kicked out of the union, I'd suggest a brand new two-handed sword powerset. But you do have a point - a two-handed sword animation would be, to quote Albert Einstein, totally rockin'. However...|
Originally Posted by Angello
Alright, well fair enough. I do like some of the Broadsword animations.
The main thing that bother me about Broadsword is it looks like a 'wasted potential' type of weapon. Basically I see my character holding this ******* sword with a long hilt and think "Why doesn't he throw in a few two-handed swings for more power?". Seeing that free hand has started to bother me lately concept wise. Eh, I'm just being anal. |
There is more than a slight problem that exists with everything that isn't the Legacy Broadsword on female characters, in that BABs designed all the custom weapons with a one-handed, short hilt. That's not a problem insomuch as the set is designed to work with a one-handed sword, but it IS a problem if we're looking at adding two-handed amimations. Most swords don't even have enough hilt to act like a ******* sword (you know what I mena), and many have a hilt that barely goes past the knuckle.
Amusingly, I have a "girl" I described as "8-feet tall, built like an anvil and carrying around a sword bigger than most men." She's basically an incredibly large woman using the Legacy Broadsword. In my mind's eye, she'd be using a two-handed sword, but such simply doesn't exist, so I squint really hard and pretend.
The problem with swirds and other melee weapons is that they're basically things you swing around, and when you have to design seven attacks with one, you run out of material fast. Look at the SwordAxeMace family - they have, in practice, three swings that double up. You have a horizontal swing left and right, a downward swing and a bigger downward swing, and an upward swing and a bigger upward swing. That, and Whirling Weapon. OK, Broadsword has Parry, but it still sort of counts. Even Dual Blades, where BABs went berserk and chased his colleges around with dual sticks, still double up a lot. You have two slices with one hand, two sliced with both hands and a stab, a stab with both hands, two slashes one after the other, two slashes at the same time... It's about as varied as swinging swords around gets, and it still reuses a lot of the same swings. It's really, really cool, sure, but the point remains
That said, I'd still like to see alternate animations for it. I just can't imagine what they'd look like.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I think we've missed the most important problem with the OP request.
Two-Handed animation would mean you couldnt also use the Shield powerset.
Cant use a shield to defend yourself while that hand is also swinging your weapon. Doesnt work.
So unless there was a "Great Sword/Great Axe/Maul" Powerset that was ONLY two-handed I dont think you'll see BS/Axe/WM ever getting two-handed animations.
While more gameplay options are great, it still needs to be somewhat realistic in some aspects :P
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Easy. Lock those custom animations if you choose Shield Defense. I figure if they can lock costume options and powersets, it wouldn't be much of a leap to think they can lock animations as well.
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Originally Posted by cybermitheral
I think we've missed the most important problem with the OP request.
Two-Handed animation would mean you couldnt also use the Shield powerset. Cant use a shield to defend yourself while that hand is also swinging your weapon. Doesnt work. So unless there was a "Great Sword/Great Axe/Maul" Powerset that was ONLY two-handed I dont think you'll see BS/Axe/WM ever getting two-handed animations. While more gameplay options are great, it still needs to be somewhat realistic in some aspects :P |
Good point - didnt think of that .
Also what do you people think of a back-spin attack where the toon spins clockwise doing a backhand-swing for a PBAoE power, rather than ANOTHER jump-slam or backflip-slash animation?
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Love it!|
Originally Posted by cybermitheral
Good point - didnt think of that
.Also what do you people think of a back-spin attack where the toon spins clockwise doing a backhand-swing for a PBAoE power, rather than ANOTHER jump-slam or backflip-slash animation? |
Broadsword could use a piercing animation set for those rapier models and a wild-style for characters who aren't trained knights.
Branching Paragon Police Department Epic Archetype, please!
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I actually think a separate set for a two-handed sword might be in order, though. The current one we have is well brutal enough, sure, but a two-handed sword would need to be even heavier and probably work in wider arcs. Not like that'll ever happen, but a guy can dream |
Originally Posted by Leo_G
Easy. Lock those custom animations if you choose Shield Defense. I figure if they can lock costume options and powersets, it wouldn't be much of a leap to think they can lock animations as well.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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As far as I know, each individual weapon model is linked to certain animations. This is why the Tsoo "katana" is for Broadsword and not the katana.
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I may be wrong but I believe that's actually due to the Tsoo "katana's" hilt being too short to be used with Katana's 2 handed grip.
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Originally Posted by MondoCool
As far as I know, each individual weapon model is linked to certain animations. This is why the Tsoo "katana" is for Broadsword and not the katana.
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Power customizations has been one of the most amazing things to come out of this game, and believe me, I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth.
I know the developers have hinted towards adding more to Power Customization and I'd like to draw everyone's attention to one of the most stale animation sets in the whole game: The BS/Axe/Mace animations.
It's hard for me to wrap my head around the fact that Martial Arts received brand new animations for a set that already used unique animations when three power sets, featuring VERY different weapons all share the same animations!
I would really like to see a nice set of alternate animations for these sets, more specifically...
two handed animations.
A majority of the weapons look absolutely silly being flung around with one hand. The Carnival Mallet, Rikti broadsword, Lumberjack Axe, and Warhammer look particularly silly.
I personally have been hoping for these alternate two-handed animations ever since Issue 2 when katana recieved completely new animations for this exact reason.