Melee Henchmen and Secondary pondering...

Have I mentioned I'm a masochistic altaholic? That's the only explaination I can come up with for this...

So... I've got a hankering for something I've never really tried before - a mastermind with primarily melee henchmen. In other words, unleashing hoards of Zombies, or commanding a group of Ninja.

Similarly, I wish to dip into a secondary set I've never really tried before... so that means /Pain, /Poison, or /Thermal. (I've got plenty of /Traps, I will never again try /Force Fields, and understand that /Trick Arrow is counter productive with these pets...)

So, does anyone have a recomendation as to which of these work together well? Perhaps with more detail than "They Do" or "Well"?

Thanks, all.

/Thermal of /Pain will work well.

They both have buffs and heals which are needed to keep the pets alive. /Thermal has resistance shields which I think work best with Zombies, and I don't know /Pain well enough to say much about that.

But /Poison doesn't have enough of a heal to be much use, though I think when you get Noxious Gas (I think thats the name) it might bloom, but I think it works best with Thugs since you only have one melee pet to heal with that set.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aggelakis PrincessDarkstar: "RAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHHH SOMEONE IS *WRONG* ON THE INTERNET!"

poisons heal is quite enough for zombies because they have thier own heal and after getting your last pet its more than needed because there will be enough tohit-debuff
(dont know how good it works with ninjas)

/Poison is fine with Necro against small groups, especially once you get the Lich; the Lich is good at taking alphas, makes the best ghost, and debuffs & controls the spawn. Plan for Stamina at 20 for any /Poison by the way.

I understand that Ninja/Thermal works well.

My Necro/Pain and Necro/Thermal seem to work well; neither is higher than 28 yet though.

/Pain on Ninjas only really works up until about level 28ish in my experience. My first MM was NIN/Pain as I tried to learn the AT. I decided to abandon it as the Ninjas were just a bit too squishy for /Pain to keep up. I've found /Storms to be much more useful. The slows and -DEF of /Storms gives the Ninjas the breathing room to outdamage most critters with relative ease. I have little trouble with most EB's at this point (level 43), and it's rare that I need a full resummon to finish a battle. You can reasonably expect to have a couple of your Genin get eaten rather quickly during an EB fight, but I would imagine that to be a common occurrence with all MM AT's. AV's are still a bit rough, but I'm waiting for closer to level 50 before dropping a load of infamy on the 'big' IO sets.

My wife has a Necro/Pain at level 48 that I duo my NIN/Storms with. From outside observation the Necro/Pain combo seems to work rather well as her pets last significantly longer on the front lines then my Genin did at the same level.

Necromancy goes well with either /pain or /thermal. In each case you have the ability to stack the pets base resistances with resistance buffs from the secondary (World of Pain for /pain and the shields for /thermal) and you can slot both the +res pet aura IO's as soul extraction can slot the recharge intensive pet sets. Both secondaries also give you good healing, some debuffs and single target buffs to speed up killing.

I would say which secondary you pick depends on concept and play style preferences. Thermal is probably a bit stronger as you have more resistances and nearly as much healing but you are going to be constantly buffing your pets - putting up 12 shields every 4 minutes and forge every 45-60 seconds was more than I was willing to do, which is why I have a necro/pain instead of necro/thermal. If you can handle the buffing and/or find the idea of flaming zombies amusing, go with necro/thermal, if not go with necro/pain.

/pain to me is the only thing that will keep the ninjas alive lol.
I rock a nin/pain MM, he's at lvl 36 right now, first toon I ever made. Stil play him, still love him. World of pain is win.

I've gotten two necro MMs to 50 thus far: necro/storm and a necro/poison. Both were very smooth rides, overall. I've got a necro/FF at 42 and that build is close to indestructible in (non-extreme) PvE gameplay, now that both unique +5% defense IOs have been slotted into Soul Extraction. I've gotten a necro/TA to 35 (and another newer one to 22); like all TA characters, the necro/TA blends control and debuffs to steamroll stuff (and burst damage gets a very nice bump after getting to OSA). I got a necro/pain to 28 before deleting because of boredom. I have a necro/traps to 25, and I'm looking forward to the Lich and to seeker drones to help improve zombie survivability. My necro/traps is fun, and the easiest character to play. Finally, I've brought both a necro/thermal and a necro/dark to 10; neither are very interesting to me, though, and they're stalled at 10.

My experience is that there isn't a poorly performing necro MM out there, regardless of the grumbling you hear on the forums about this or that secondary. I'm not into the "reactive" healing sets, but you may be so don't let my boredom with them slow you down. Pick the concept and playstyle you'd have the most fun playing, and then go forth and have fun.

I don't have enough experience with ninjas to have well informed opinions about them.

I like my Thugs/Pain right now. It's level 22, and I just got Soothing Aura. I just put my pets on defensive and wander through missions, healing as needed while they drop enemies. It feels pretty sinister to just walk around while your minions go berserk around you, just healing them when they're on the verge of running out of steam so that they can go back out in a frenzy and maim themselves all over again.

My Necro/Storm is pretty cool, especially after getting the Lich and adding its control and mez power to my own. Enemy groups lose so much Tohit that they're basically blind while my pets walk in and destroy them.

I don't really have the patience for ninjas. Their AI is kind of stupid for assassins who wander in the shadows.

/Storm is all about the lock down with the melee pets, and it works quite well. Necros can add their own debuffs to help more, while Ninjas bring their own tricks to the table that stack well with storm's lock down capabilities. The Ninja's passive defense is a little lacking, given what the other pets get, but combined with Hurricane it is very tough to hit the little buggers.

The hidden gem with storm masterminds is T-Clap. Combine that with Oppressive Gloom in the late game and everything officially hates you.

Group TP works very well, or you can bind a goto command to a mouse button. With the Ninjas, in particular, they get where you're going very fast. With practice you can send them on a goto at the same time you drop a freezing rain on that spot and they'll get there right as the foes are flopping.

Or, you can Smoke Flash the Oni and send him in with the Jounin, who are already hidden for a stealth attack! Often times I'll do this and just keep the Genin on defensive. They're pretty good about staying back and throwing their shurikens, which do decent damage and their exploding variety provides more AOE.

Lots of versatility with /Storm and masterminds, which is a big part of what makes the combination fun.