Eventual Hope for Power Customization
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-01-13 18:22 in Suggestions and Ideas
I, for one, would be perfectly fine losing a little bit of DPS if that meant I got to use a frickin' flamethrower with my fire blasts. 
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I pretty much agree with you, however the main reason I asked was that a while back BaBs talked about wanting to eliminate redraw but that the method he tried didn't work (or more accurately didn't work with Shield Defense). Given that he apparently wasn't concerned about balance then I was wondering why he considered it an issue here.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
It may be minimal, but it is still an impact on balance. And keep in mind that powergamers will always choose the most effective option under any given circumstances, and so they will always choose to use the no weapon option. Casual players will interpret that as them being penalized because they choose to build for concept and not gameplay.
And really, we have evidence that the redraw feature has a significant effect on balance. When it was removed from the overall cast time of the weapon sets, they became significantly stronger. To the point where Claws actually had to be nerfed to bring it back to the DPS it had before. It may depend on how fast the weapon set is, with slower weapons being effected less, but it DOES have an impact. The only argument I see would be that before the redraw was a constant thing, 100%, and now it is a smaller fraction, maybe 10-20% of the time based on your other powers and how well you manage it. Removal of that remaining 20% should be less than the original removal of 80%. Personally, I think a better option would be a separate Power Set which is balanced around the idea that you have a Staff or other item you are casting attack effects from. |
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=200797
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I think in that case it was not that he was not concerned about balance, it was that it would be an overall buff to all weapon sets.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I pretty much agree with you, however the main reason I asked was that a while back BaBs talked about wanting to eliminate redraw but that the method he tried didn't work (or more accurately didn't work with Shield Defense). Given that he apparently wasn't concerned about balance then I was wondering why he considered it an issue here.
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I mean, he removed redraw in the first place, and that was a buff to all weapon sets. Did BaBs ever say that he never expected that to effect balance, or that he didn't care if any sets (Claws) became overpowered because of the removal of the redraw?
In this case, what we are talking about is an overall NERF to all sets. Or at least, a nerf to non-weapon sets to which you choose to add a weapon.
Mind you, if he did ever manage to remove redraw, adding them to non-weapon sets would become trivial.
(Well, except for being able to customize them, as BaBs mentioned)
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Yeah, but need more fire sword animations to round out the concept.|
Originally Posted by Jade_Dragon
I have a Blaster that originally was supposed to use a beam sword, I chose Fire instead because Energy has no sword. I still can't create her as a Dominator, because Fire Assault has no sword either.
You can recolor the Fire Sword to be bright blue, to make it look like a energy sword instead of fire. It will still set foes on fire, but the sword itself can be made to look like energy. And if you want a straight one and not curved, you can select the Greater Fire Sword model. (Although its size may not perfectly fit concept either) Ice you're generally stuck with, although an alternate model that looks more like an energy field might be an option BaBs could add. In this case the "energy" would be cold and not hot. You're still doing Ice or Fire damage, though, there'll be no way to make it do Energy. Unless one of the Energy attacks could be changed to use an energy blade, and I think that bumps up against the redraw idea again. (I'm honestly not sure what the difference between Weapon Set redraw and individual powers that look like a weapon are, in terms of redraw, but I think at the least the redraw is much faster) |
Also, for ice, if it's a cryo-beam saber, there's no need for energy. If a cryo-beam can freeze enemies, a cryo-beam saber will freeze them and cut them too
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Just a guess, but it may be a bigger issue here because in weapon sets with redraw, you only need to draw once and then the rest of the attacks in your chain don't do the draw animation (unless you use a power from another set or put away your weapon, that is). So it's more of an annoyance than an actual balance concern, since the draw part usually happens before combat even starts.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I pretty much agree with you, however the main reason I asked was that a while back BaBs talked about wanting to eliminate redraw but that the method he tried didn't work (or more accurately didn't work with Shield Defense). Given that he apparently wasn't concerned about balance then I was wondering why he considered it an issue here.
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=200797 |
But with being able to change the weapon type used by the attacks, you can run into the situation where someone chooses more than one weapon to use for their power set, and actually get a noticeable performance decrease because they have so much redraw during combat.
Example: I decide that for my character concept, I only have a handful of "real" powers, and make up for the rest of them with gadgets and stuff. So some of my blasts have the normal from-the-hands animations, some use a high-tech-pistol, and some use a magic-wand. However, I'm a bit of a dullard and I use all three variants for powers in my main attack chain, causing me to have to draw a new weapon every other attack. And, being an MMO player, I complain about it on the forums and blame the devs.
It would actually be a problem that could be resolved by eliminating draw times. Hopefully BaB hasn't given up on that.
Perhaps it would be possible to make these powers have two versions: one with customizable colors without a weapon, and one with customizable weapons but with static colors. That way only one aspect of the power is customizable at the same time, until they get around to fixing that. I assume it's on the list to fix.
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or customizable weapons with effects related to color of the weapon,|
Originally Posted by FredrikSvanberg
Perhaps it would be possible to make these powers have two versions: one with customizable colors without a weapon, and one with customizable weapons but with static colors. That way only one aspect of the power is customizable at the same time, until they get around to fixing that. I assume it's on the list to fix.
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but still, I wasn't looking at customizable weapons for power sets, just extra themes.
So for Fire blast you could have:
flamethrower theme
fire wand theme
fire staff theme
etc....
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But that's where the rubber hits the road, isn't it? This is the big one that, from my perspective, is probably the last thing we can conceivably ask from power customization that won't boil down to "just more of the same." The ability to turn non-weapon powersets into weapon powersets and weapon powersets into non-weapon ones, that's pretty much all that's left. And, from what little I know of the animations system, that would be somewhere between "major pain" and "impossible."|
Originally Posted by BackAlleyBrawler
Adding customizeable weapons to power customization is another story.
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The questions here, as I see them in my ignorance, are can you make powers such that they have customizable activation sequences, such that they cause redraw when a weapon is chose, don't cause redraw when no weapon is chosen and don't cause redraw between the different powers (I suspect youc can force the same weapon for all and get away with it) and, most importantly, will the system even concede to play that kind of setup?
BABs, one important point I have to make here - I believe just adding a weapon prop to powers in the way that the Fire Sword or Stone Mallet are set up would be a mistake. If we're talking about transforming non-weapon powers into weapon ones, that HAS to go through weapon customization, and if it can't or won't, then better to not mess with it to begin with. In this case, the ideal solution would be idea, but the alternate solution would just not be good enough, if I understand things as well as I assume I do.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
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Truthfully I would just be happy to get Power Customization for Epic/Patron and Pools...
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Originally Posted by NarfMann
I, for one, would be perfectly fine losing a little bit of DPS if that meant I got to use a frickin' flamethrower with my fire blasts.
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I'd love to see AoE Cone flames shoot from a forearm turret built into my Fire Blaster's armor instead of looking like he just came back from eating a 4-Alarm Special at the local TexMex restaurant.
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Yes to all please!
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Originally Posted by Lycanus
Hopefully, I'd like to see alternate animations for all the powers.
Some ideas right now: some kicks in the non-martial melees so someone can do a flashy martial-artist that uses some sort of technique that creates fire or lightning or the like. Currently, most of the non-MA martials are really good punch sets already, (which I like) but one or two kicks thrown in would be great. (targeted: fire, energy, electrical, dark) more alternate weapons for earth, fire and ice (fire katana! ice axe! earth greatsword!) and don't say a greatsword doesn't deal smashing...a great frigging piece of rock shaped like a sword will probably smash more than slash alternate animations for theme-heavy powers (the tentacles and skulls of dark mainly, I don't mind them for most of my characters, but for some...yeeeah) ability to customize Ancillaries and Pools |
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I was one of the people not too excited by color customization but I have to admit that I found uses for it that I didn't foresee and now think it was a pretty cool addition. The alternate animations for SS and MA always made me happy though and any additional animation choices for melee powers gets my vote. Choice is great!
The gold standard for customization (IMO) would still be being able to use some kind of focus for powers (be it a weapon or object) or being able to tweak damage types with certain customization options. If the Vanguard broadsword actually did some energy damage, for example. I know these kinds of options would be difficult to balance correctly but it really is the kind of customization I'm hoping to see in the City someday.
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Personally, I think it'd be fine if they just made a popup warning that said something alone the lines of "Warning: Choosing weapon animations for a non-weapon set may cause a slight increase to cast time, and have a negative effect of damage per second." Or something worded a little better... then it'd be fine. If people are willing to take a slight, minor, entirely possible to overlook hit to their efficiency in order to look cool... then let them.