City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

Controllers vs Defenders!

AhaziRefugee

By AhaziRefugee,
Posted on: 2010-01-12 10:28 in Freedom

 

Posted

Since I've been dying to get an all-Defender team together, I thought of an idea. Wondering if anyone else thinks it is worthwhile.

A contest between an all-Defender team and an all-Controller team.

I was thinking about 3 of the quick lvl 50 TF's (on different days if needed). Say ITF, LGTF, and either STF or KTF. (STF could be interesting) Lowest total time to complete wins. I was at first thinking of just one TF, but you never know if something weird could throw one run off. (DC's and such)

I've got a million Controllers, but would really want to bring my one Defender (Dark/Dark) along for this.

Anyone interested?

 

Posted

I bet that the pirates will finish off the ninjas in the first five minutes.

J-Man- Lieran, if you were Paris Hilton, I'd be the chihuahua in your purse.

 

Posted

I'd love to help with that experiment, Jeet, but, alas, my highest level character on Freedom is level 30-ish.

 

Posted

I've done a few all defender TFs... but haven't done an all controller one.

I'd be down for either of the teams =)

I also have a friend who would probably like to join on one of her toons as well..

If there is any other interest in this, I have two controllers and one defender at lvl 50 on freedom to offer.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieran View Post
I bet that the pirates will finish off the ninjas in the first five minutes.
That sounds like an episode of Scooby-Do for some reason.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charged_Atmo View Post
I'd love to help with that experiment, Jeet, but, alas, my highest level character on Freedom is level 30-ish.
Oh you must do something about that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by tempty View Post
I've done a few all defender TFs... but haven't done an all controller one.

I'd be down for either of the teams =)

I also have a friend who would probably like to join on one of her toons as well..

If there is any other interest in this, I have two controllers and one defender at lvl 50 on freedom to offer.
Well that's a start. Charged may have plenty of time to get a toon to 50. Would be best to set it up here on the board. You never know what you are going to get with PuG's.

I've heard tales of all-Defender teams, but never got to experience one.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo View Post
Well that's a start. Charged may have plenty of time to get a toon to 50. Would be best to set it up here on the board. You never know what you are going to get with PuG's.

I've heard tales of all-Defender teams, but never got to experience one.
lol PuG's can be a bit scary >.<

I have an emp that I can offer to this and the friends I spoke of has a rad/psi defender to add =)

my work schedule is all over the place but I am generally on in the evenings during the week and it varies on the weekend.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo View Post
Since I've been dying to get an all-Defender team together, I thought of an idea. Wondering if anyone else thinks it is worthwhile.

A contest between an all-Defender team and an all-Controller team.

I was thinking about 3 of the quick lvl 50 TF's (on different days if needed). Say ITF, LGTF, and either STF or KTF. (STF could be interesting) Lowest total time to complete wins. I was at first thinking of just one TF, but you never know if something weird could throw one run off. (DC's and such)

I've got a million Controllers, but would really want to bring my one Defender (Dark/Dark) along for this.

Anyone interested?
I'd be interested. 3 TFs in a row would be murder for my schedule though; and if we get a bum team, the "quick" TFs can easily turn into a four hour ordeal.

I think a simple "race to the finish" for one TF a night is a better option (at least it is for me ). You can do 3 TFs, just do them on different nights, then tally the results at the end of the week. Doing it THAT way would give you a chance for color commentary and play-by-play discussions through the week, which makes it more of an event than just an one-night blitzkrieg.

I have one controller I can bring into the mix. My defender is only in the mid 30s, but is a viable option as well, depending on the level we roll and if a DEF is needed. My controller is my "fun fun fun" toon tho, so I'd prefer to run Dr. Turgenev for this.

Tempty: PUG teams can be a beautiful hit, or a horrifying miss. XD I appreciate the inherent horror, but PUGs tend to be better than average here.

Keep us updated, JKD. Sounds like a fun idea for a PVE version of DEF-CON (an old "defenders vs controllers" PVP challenge).

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by tempty View Post
lol PuG's can be a bit scary >.<

I have an emp that I can offer to this and the friends I spoke of has a rad/psi defender to add =)

my work schedule is all over the place but I am generally on in the evenings during the week and it varies on the weekend.
My best nights are Friday, Sat, and Sun. The other nights I have to get in bed by 8:00pm CST due to early rising*.

*would like to but willing to stay up later for special events

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turgenev View Post
I'd be interested. 3 TFs in a row would be murder for my schedule though; and if we get a bum team, the "quick" TFs can easily turn into a four hour ordeal.

I think a simple "race to the finish" for one TF a night is a better option (at least it is for me ). You can do 3 TFs, just do them on different nights, then tally the results at the end of the week. Doing it THAT way would give you a chance for color commentary and play-by-play discussions through the week, which makes it more of an event than just an one-night blitzkrieg.

I have one controller I can bring into the mix. My defender is only in the mid 30s, but is a viable option as well, depending on the level we roll and if a DEF is needed. My controller is my "fun fun fun" toon tho, so I'd prefer to run Dr. Turgenev for this.

Tempty: PUG teams can be a beautiful hit, or a horrifying miss. XD I appreciate the inherent horror, but PUGs tend to be better than average here.

Keep us updated, JKD. Sounds like a fun idea for a PVE version of DEF-CON (an old "defenders vs controllers" PVP challenge).
I like your "one a night" idea. Indeed that fosters drama and passion due to one team being in the lead, time-wise. I wonder what is the best way to determine the time? Just the time that pops up at the end (requiring honesty) or a race back to the contact? Probably easier to just use the TF official timer. Would need a neutral party to watch the contact for the latter method.

So how did that Def-Con thing turn out?

Sounds like we have 4 peeps out of 16 needed. I'm willing to PuG...I do it everyday, but wouldn't want to give one team an unfair advantage by throwing a Leeroy Jenkins at them. May not be a big deal unless we decided to get cocky and include the STF. I suppose a little interview prior to invite would be warranted.

 

Posted

I'd be game for this I got a 50 controller sounds like fun, when do you plan to do it around?

 

Posted

Quote:
I wonder what is the best way to determine the time? Just the time that pops up at the end (requiring honesty) or a race back to the contact? Probably easier to just use the TF official timer. Would need a neutral party to watch the contact for the latter method.
Take a look at one of E-Man's TF threads. He usually posts a screenshot of the TF Mission Complete window, which displays the time taken. Anyone participating could email you their screenshots, for you to put up in a post-run analysis.

Quote:
So how did that Def-Con thing turn out?
Heh. It was a seriously skewed kill count. DEFs won the match, but 99% of their kills were done by one person who was getting all the DAM/DEF buffs. Going by headcount ratio, the controllers got the most kills per capita, but overall the DEFs won cuz of their debuff sniperboy.

It was an interesting demonstration of how you have varying tactics in a PVP group: The "turtle" setup, which is how I ran the controller team, for stacked AOE buffs/debuffs; and what they did, which for some reason I want to call the "Jesus Save Us" mode, where it's one person doing all the work, and everyone else just buffs the snot outta him.

Quote:
Sounds like we have 4 peeps out of 16 needed. I'm willing to PuG...I do it everyday, but wouldn't want to give one team an unfair advantage by throwing a Leeroy Jenkins at them.
I don't think you need to PUG this. Just set up a signup sheet with your event presented clearly for everyone to read, offer the cemented date/time for it (and make sure it doesn't conflict with anything else posted), and I think you'll have a good time of it. Mind you, it's not important for the teams to START at the same time, since the TF counter does the time calc for you; it's just important they get you the screenshot + results before, say, noon the next day.

Consider coordinating this the Freedom Horde (who gets together regularly for TF runs, typically commanded by E-Man and Luna), and with PERC as well. Lieran has recently taken the reins of resurrecting this player-centric entertainment group, and she may have resources available to her (banner making, advertisements via rednames, etc) that would lend considerable weight to your post. This is Freedom. The more you lay down ham, the more we'll scream "ZOMG BACON".

-T.

 

Posted

You would also want to make sure you notate if speed runs and stealthing are legit, or if you want a full on fighting TF each time. I know time wise that makes a lot of them longer, but if you're doing a contest to see who is better, my opinion would be to actually fight through it all. That requires honesty from both teams obviously, but if they know it going in, I don't think it would be that much hassle.


@The Omega Elementress
Currently playing Project Willow lvl 50 DB/WP Incarnate Shifted Scrapper

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky666 View Post
I'd be game for this I got a 50 controller sounds like fun, when do you plan to do it around?
I wanted to find out if anyone else was interested first. I would think weekend would be the best time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turgenev View Post
Take a look at one of E-Man's TF threads. He usually posts a screenshot of the TF Mission Complete window, which displays the time taken. Anyone participating could email you their screenshots, for you to put up in a post-run analysis.
I didn't even think of that. Perfect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky666
Heh. It was a seriously skewed kill count. DEFs won the match, but 99% of their kills were done by one person who was getting all the DAM/DEF buffs. Going by headcount ratio, the controllers got the most kills per capita, but overall the DEFs won cuz of their debuff sniperboy.

It was an interesting demonstration of how you have varying tactics in a PVP group: The "turtle" setup, which is how I ran the controller team, for stacked AOE buffs/debuffs; and what they did, which for some reason I want to call the "Jesus Save Us" mode, where it's one person doing all the work, and everyone else just buffs the snot outta him.
That's an innovative idea, gotta give them credit for that one. They created an unbeatable god, eh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky666
I don't think you need to PUG this. Just set up a signup sheet with your event presented clearly for everyone to read, offer the cemented date/time for it (and make sure it doesn't conflict with anything else posted), and I think you'll have a good time of it. Mind you, it's not important for the teams to START at the same time, since the TF counter does the time calc for you; it's just important they get you the screenshot + results before, say, noon the next day.
Another option. I hadn't considered that it really isn't mandatory to run them at the same time. We could even have the same 8 players switch AT's and run it again. That would put it more into "experiment" mode than "competition" mode though. Perhaps less fun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky666
Consider coordinating this the Freedom Horde (who gets together regularly for TF runs, typically commanded by E-Man and Luna), and with PERC as well. Lieran has recently taken the reins of resurrecting this player-centric entertainment group, and she may have resources available to her (banner making, advertisements via rednames, etc) that would lend considerable weight to your post. This is Freedom. The more you lay down ham, the more we'll scream "ZOMG BACON".

-T.
I'll look into this more. I don't have a relationship with those you mentioned. Never too late though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaElementress View Post
You would also want to make sure you notate if speed runs and stealthing are legit, or if you want a full on fighting TF each time. I know time wise that makes a lot of them longer, but if you're doing a contest to see who is better, my opinion would be to actually fight through it all. That requires honesty from both teams obviously, but if they know it going in, I don't think it would be that much hassle.
Good thoughts. I was assuming speed runs would be allowed. It's really the "hard stuff" that would be most interesting to compare. (I may be wrong about that) What your point brings up is whether one team will be better equipped for speed runs due to things like having a stealther/tper...which doesn't necessarily illustrate the strengths and weaknesses between the two AT's. So that's one to ponder.

 

Posted

That was my thought process. I mean, to see how the AT's compare, it would be good to judge their ability to melt through different masses of foes. I don't see it as much of a challenge or test if it's just "stealth, TP, debuff, kill"

But again, just my opinion! However, if you DO decide to run all fighting or at least abridged versions of TF's, I have a Defender or a Troller I can volunteer for this. I just personally hate speed runs. I like getting dirty in my TF's! :-)


@The Omega Elementress
Currently playing Project Willow lvl 50 DB/WP Incarnate Shifted Scrapper

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by OmegaElementress View Post
That was my thought process. I mean, to see how the AT's compare, it would be good to judge their ability to melt through different masses of foes. I don't see it as much of a challenge or test if it's just "stealth, TP, debuff, kill"

But again, just my opinion! However, if you DO decide to run all fighting or at least abridged versions of TF's, I have a Defender or a Troller I can volunteer for this. I just personally hate speed runs. I like getting dirty in my TF's! :-)
After 10 seconds of hard pondering, I'm seeing problems already. It would almost be necessary to require a "kill all". Would even skipping ambushes in the ITF 2nd mish be a form of "speeding"?

I would be agreeable to a majority opinion on that one.

 

Posted

Here's what we have so far:

Jeet-Defender (Controller 2nd choice)
Tempty-Defender or Controller
Tempty's friend-Defender
Turgenev-Controller (Defender 2nd choice)
Lucky666-Controller
OmegaElementress-Defender or Controller

That's:

Defenders-potential 4
Controllers-potential 5

I'm leaning toward a Saturday since that could be the largest window of time to allow most to participate. Perhaps a combo with a Sunday to get 3 TF's in. Or even one a week for 3 weeks could work. Might risk losing passion if stretched that long though.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo View Post
After 10 seconds of hard pondering, I'm seeing problems already. It would almost be necessary to require a "kill all". Would even skipping ambushes in the ITF 2nd mish be a form of "speeding"?

I would be agreeable to a majority opinion on that one.
Let me make an alternative suggestion here that suits a few needs.

Instead of a TF that everyone knows and runs to death, pick a random MA arc (that you pre-tested). Go for something that doesn't have a measurable "speed" feel to it (look for one or two kill-alls, an AV fight, etc). I'd recommend an arc with 3+ stars and under 20 ratings for a few reasons. 1.) The arc will be relatively unknown, so no "speed" racing is likely; and 2.) it'll serve as a nice present for the arc author to suddenly get a flurry of votes.

Good candidates for these are recent Dev Choice submissions, or the contestants in Bubbawheat's "Player's Choice Awards" for 2009.

 

Posted

I could manage a back to back on a Saturday or Sunday. Probably not both days in a row though. heh


@The Omega Elementress
Currently playing Project Willow lvl 50 DB/WP Incarnate Shifted Scrapper

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turgenev View Post
Let me make an alternative suggestion here that suits a few needs.

Instead of a TF that everyone knows and runs to death, pick a random MA arc (that you pre-tested). Go for something that doesn't have a measurable "speed" feel to it (look for one or two kill-alls, an AV fight, etc). I'd recommend an arc with 3+ stars and under 20 ratings for a few reasons. 1.) The arc will be relatively unknown, so no "speed" racing is likely; and 2.) it'll serve as a nice present for the arc author to suddenly get a flurry of votes.

Good candidates for these are recent Dev Choice submissions, or the contestants in Bubbawheat's "Player's Choice Awards" for 2009.
I kinda love this idea... I love the MA and a lot of the arcs can be quite challenging... If we're running 50's, xp wouldn't be a focus at all anyway so we could pretty much do any arc we wanted!


@The Omega Elementress
Currently playing Project Willow lvl 50 DB/WP Incarnate Shifted Scrapper

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turgenev View Post
Let me make an alternative suggestion here that suits a few needs.

Instead of a TF that everyone knows and runs to death, pick a random MA arc (that you pre-tested). Go for something that doesn't have a measurable "speed" feel to it (look for one or two kill-alls, an AV fight, etc). I'd recommend an arc with 3+ stars and under 20 ratings for a few reasons. 1.) The arc will be relatively unknown, so no "speed" racing is likely; and 2.) it'll serve as a nice present for the arc author to suddenly get a flurry of votes.

Good candidates for these are recent Dev Choice submissions, or the contestants in Bubbawheat's "Player's Choice Awards" for 2009.
That's not bad. More options...makes it tough to pick the "best" here. Do the AE arcs have a timer? I honestly haven't paid attention to that.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo View Post
That's not bad. More options...makes it tough to pick the "best" here. Do the AE arcs have a timer? I honestly haven't paid attention to that.
Oooh, that's a sticking point. There's no "control" features for the MA run like a TF has, including a timer limit. =/ So, IF you went with that idea, you'd have to have someone /tell the contest leader to record a date/time when complete, and who can snapshot the Mission Success outgoing dialogue (as proof they finished it, with the /tell on screen to show "proof" of the time finish).

That's messier. TFs and Ouro arcs are the better option for simplicity's sakes. IF you wanted to throw MA in, you could do it as the "final run" arc, i.e., give people two stock TFs, then an MA arc, so you only have to do the messy work once.

(BTW, the Mender Silos TF is pretty rockin', and has a nice "zomg kill Nazis" motif.)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lieran View Post
I bet that the pirates will finish off the ninjas in the first five minutes.
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

 

Posted

My defender's level 17 -- help me powerlevel him and I'm in!

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeetKuneDo View Post
Since I've been dying to get an all-Defender team together, I thought of an idea. Wondering if anyone else thinks it is worthwhile.

A contest between an all-Defender team and an all-Controller team.
I remember doing this a few years back....Called it DEFCON but it was PVP and it was great fun, way before inventions though.
I can beat the drum in RO and see who comes to the call. We have Def/Cons up the ying yang there

I'll check here to see what TF you decide, I wouldn't mind putting together an RO Defender or Controller team for this.



 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by AhaziRefugee View Post
My defender's level 17 -- help me powerlevel him and I'm in!
I would probably get you to lvl 20 and lose interest. I've farmed a bit, but one or two runs is my limit...I gotta do something else after that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altoholic_Monkey View Post
I remember doing this a few years back....Called it DEFCON but it was PVP and it was great fun, way before inventions though.
I can beat the drum in RO and see who comes to the call. We have Def/Cons up the ying yang there

I'll check here to see what TF you decide, I wouldn't mind putting together an RO Defender or Controller team for this.
Awesome.

I'm thinking ITF, LGTF, and KTF. I actually would love to see what would happen with the STF, but not sure if that would be popular. (And Illusion Controllers could tilt the scales too far one way with PA.)

I'm starting to doubt we can ban "speed runs" in an event where we are trying to go as fast as possible. Sounds complicated. I'll take suggestions on that.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turgenev View Post
(BTW, the Mender Silos TF is pretty rockin', and has a nice "zomg kill Nazis" motif.)
RO did this TF for 2008/09 ROlympics, which is SG vs SG. The winners of 2009 was our all corruptor SG, Repeat Offenders. The team finished with a time of 0:18:45. Which is faster than the times from last year, all around 30 mins.

It is one of the more interesting TF that isn't run often (available on both sides) but its short and caps at 39 so you get a nuke but no APP. It's a great racing Task Force because of that and also a lot of those lovely set bonuses won't be working, depending on the levels of the set IOs you have.

Could always run the Abandoned Sewer Trial...*ducks*