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My experience with a Fire/Rad is that the thing you need most is mez protection... I play nearly 100% melee with Hot Feet & Choking Cloud running and getting hit by a mez puts them out of action for a fair amount of time due to the long recharge. Indomitable Will makes you considerably more durable thanks to no longer loosing two of your key powers whenever something nails you with a 1 second mez.|
Originally Posted by Deep Rootz
Ok I'm on my first fire and first rad...have played both plant/kin and grav/kin to 50, but with fire/rad I'm at a loss when trying to go with defense or resistence. I figured having a self-heal would make a resistence set a better choice, but then again I could be wrong. What would be the major pro's and con's of going with one or the other? Any help is greatly appreciated...thanks in advance
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Mind over Body is a good resist armor and Psi Tornado is rather nice for some more AOE. I've recently respec'd into World of Confusion as an experiment and I have to say I'm not overly impressed so far... I'm currently looking for the Contagious Confusion proc to see if it makes up for the somewhat lackluster performance of the power. It does work, I'm just not yet convinced it works well enough to justify the power and slot investment.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
A defence armour would stack with the To Hit Debuff in Rad Infection, and make you less likely to be mezzed.
Resistance armours and -Damage from EF dont stack in the same way.
And the AoE stun in Fissure stacking with Flashfire makes Stone Mastery pretty hard to beat from a practical point of view.
I went for Primal Forces Mastery myself, but I was playing a twin duo with no Stamina, so Power Boost was handy for boosting the END Recovery from AM, as well as boosting hold durtaions. I also had Stimulant to make the mez protection in Psionic Mastery redundnant.
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Bit of bad news. Power Boost doesn't boost the recovery from AM. Conserve Power is a useful endurance management tool though.
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Originally Posted by DrMike2000
A defence armour would stack with the To Hit Debuff in Rad Infection, and make you less likely to be mezzed.
Resistance armours and -Damage from EF dont stack in the same way. And the AoE stun in Fissure stacking with Flashfire makes Stone Mastery pretty hard to beat from a practical point of view. I went for Primal Forces Mastery myself, but I was playing a twin duo with no Stamina, so Power Boost was handy for boosting the END Recovery from AM, as well as boosting hold durtaions. I also had Stimulant to make the mez protection in Psionic Mastery redundnant. |
Ok I decided to go with Earth Mastery...I like the idea being able to stack stuns on the mobs with flash fire and fissure so I'll see how this goes. With the to hit debuffs and stuns I couldn't imagine being mezzed that much, but I'll just have to give it a try and see how it goes. I've seen some builds, but noticed its debatable as to whether soft capping s/l defense is necessary so not sure If I want to invest that much into it. Can anyone tell me how much recharge is needed to get am perma? I haven't really found any clear information on it other than a lot of recharge is needed.
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Bloody hell! You're right! Of course it doesn't, it affects End Drain/Return, not +Recovery.|
Originally Posted by ketch
Bit of bad news. Power Boost doesn't boost the recovery from AM. Conserve Power is a useful endurance management tool though.
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I went through 3 levels believing that it did and kicking myself if I activated AM before Power Boost, convinced I was running into endurance problems only when I messed up that sequence. Thats a great testament to the power to see only what you want to see.
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Originally Posted by Deep Rootz
Can anyone tell me how much recharge is needed to get am perma? I haven't really found any clear information on it other than a lot of recharge is needed.
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Hasten lasts 120 sec and recharges in 450.
Assume +95% from enhancements from both, and +100% from the two powers, and a further 80% from Set Bonuses.
120 * (1 + .95 + 1 + .8) = 450
That will have Hasten just perma'd (apart from its activation time) and AM slightly more than perma. So maybe shoot for 70% or 75%, that should leave you with AM up just about all the time.
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Like CMA, I really like the Psi Pool for Indomidible Will. Getting Mezzed was my biggest problem, and IW takes care of that most of the time without having to have a max IO set build. I find that with the Hot Feet+Choking Cloud combo, having additional stun to stack with Flashfire really isn't needed -- I just need something to distract the foes long enough for Choking Cloud to settle in and hold. Bosses need stacked holds, so a Char works fine. And I find Psi Tornado to be quite effective as an AoE damage power without the range limitations of Fissure -- with AV's, I like to stay back a little.
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Originally Posted by Deep Rootz
Ok I'm on my first fire and first rad...have played both plant/kin and grav/kin to 50, but with fire/rad I'm at a loss when trying to go with defense or resistence. I figured having a self-heal would make a resistence set a better choice, but then again I could be wrong. What would be the major pro's and con's of going with one or the other? Any help is greatly appreciated...thanks in advance
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LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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Status effects are not quite so much an issue with perma AM, as it gives you significant status effect resistance, so when you do get hit with them, they don't last very long anyway.|
Originally Posted by Deep Rootz
With the to hit debuffs and stuns I couldn't imagine being mezzed that much, but I'll just have to give it a try and see how it goes.
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| I've seen some builds, but noticed its debatable as to whether soft capping s/l defense is necessary so not sure If I want to invest that much into it. |
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| Can anyone tell me how much recharge is needed to get am perma? I haven't really found any clear information on it other than a lot of recharge is needed. |
One thing I did not see mentioned so far about Stone mastery, is the ability to have perma Earth's Embrace. Having capped HP is very nice on top of all the other mitigation you get.
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But getting mezzed at all turns off Hot Feet and Choking Cloud. Those two powers are the key to my playstyle. I don't have enough recharge for perma-AM, and certainly not enough for Perma-IW, but IW makes it so I am rarely mezzed, and those few times a mez gets past, it usually doesn't last long. My Fire/Rad controls and then kills quickly enough that the damage reduction from Mind over Body and the heal in Radiant Aura is usually enough to get me by without a max IO build.
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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Status effects are not quite so much an issue with perma AM, as it gives you significant status effect resistance, so when you do get hit with them, they don't last very long anyway.
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LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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The problem with that is that even a 1 second mez will kill Hot Feet/Choking Cloud and you'll have a lengthy wait until they're back again as I mentioned:|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
Status effects are not quite so much an issue with perma AM, as it gives you significant status effect resistance, so when you do get hit with them, they don't last very long anyway.
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| Indomitable Will makes you considerably more durable thanks to no longer loosing two of your key powers whenever something nails you with a 1 second mez. |
Loosing those two powers in a fight suddenly drastically reduces your effectiveness, and due to the recharge it will take considerable time to get them back up. Making sure they don't drop in the first place prevents that and keeps you moving at maximum speed. Oh, don't forget that a mez also drops RI & EF so you could suddenly be facing a large group of suddenly undebuffed mobs looking at you. Keeping those things from happening is more than enough reason for me to snag Psi for IW.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
I'm sure this is posted on other threads, but I'll ask since I started this one. How do I get choking cloud to work effectively? I noticed it can't be slotted for acc so I figured it would be auto-hit though I've rarely noticed it hit if at all.
The first step is to get the Lockdown: +2 mag proc. It's 8 second duration is longer than choking cloud's base duration. You'll see a notable improvement with it. To increase, CC's accuracy you can use set IO's, for example the end/acc from Ghost Widow's.
You can get some nice values with 2 end/hold, 2 acc/hold, an acc/end, and the proc. That's just using Ghost Widow's, Lockdown, and Essence of Curare. All of these should be easily attainable.
Is it possible for a Fire/Rad to get perma-IW?
I tend to be finicky about IW. Yes, when its up, and it can be up often, you dont get stunned, but if there is even a 10 second gap, and I get stunned in that gap, then I still have to restart CC and HF. So, I always found IW insufficient on my Fire/Rad, since if I have to restart once an hour or 10 times an hour, I'm equally pissed either way.
So, can you get perma-IW?
Otherwise, I'm gonna be pissed if I have to restart at all. All or nothing, otherwise, I'd personally take an epic that is more fun (YMMV). I took Fire. *shrug*
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
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Choking Cloud was effective long before IOs were around, so Ketch's advice is a little off -- not incorrect, but a little off.|
Originally Posted by Deep Rootz
I'm sure this is posted on other threads, but I'll ask since I started this one. How do I get choking cloud to work effectively? I noticed it can't be slotted for acc so I figured it would be auto-hit though I've rarely noticed it hit if at all.
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Choking Cloud has a unique way it operates. My Ill/Rad guide (linked in my sig) explains it in detail. Most important is to fully slot it for both EndRdx and Hold. Even with SO's, CC is effective with 3 EndRdx, 3 Hold, but IOs can make it more effective.
The power does not accept Accuracy enhancements, but you can add some accuracy by using Hold sets with accuracy -- but it is more important to ED Cap Hold duration. Why? At level 50, if CC hits on a pulse, it lasts for 7.45 seconds, and it pulses every 5 seconds. However, the unique "chance for" formula for CC means that it has a good chance to miss any one pulse, but your odds go up a lot over multiple pulses. If it hits once, then it will only last through one more pulse before it drops. But fully slotted, that hold lasts a little less than 15 seconds, or almost through THREE pulses. (Hot Feet helps here . . . the Slow in Hot Feet keeps foes in the area of CC longer, allowing more pulses. But Hot Feet also causes the foes to try to run away, so they don't try to attack you.) Because Hold duration allows the hold to last through more pulses, it substantially increases the chances of the hold continuing -- in a way, slotting for Hold duration increases your accuracy.
You want to slot for EndRdx because CC is so endurance-heavy, especially if you are also running Hot Feet. Then you want to slot for Hold. The +2 Mag proc is wonderful in this power, due to the way Choking Cloud stacks mag . . . it makes CC more likely to stack enough mag to hold. I would suggest that CC gets more use out of this proc than any other power. But I would suggest you slot up for EndRdx and Hold first. If you are doing IO slotting, you will hopefully have some global Accuracy from other sets, so just a small amount of accuracy in CC will be enough.
Before level 50, one way to do this is to "frankenslot" for EndRdx/Hold from Neuronic Shutdown, Essense of Curae and Ghost Widow, then add the Lockdown triple, Lockdown quad and the Lockdown +2 Mag proc. That's only 18% Accuracy, but it should be effective. At level 50, You can replace the Neuronic Shutdown EndRdx/Hold with one from Unbreakable Constraint, and then replace either the Lockdown triple or one of the other EndRdx/Holds with the Unbreakable Contstraint damage proc. (The 2.5% buff to Hold Duration in Lockdown makes up for the small loss in Hold duration in the power if you replace the Essence of Curae or Ghost Widow.)
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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Ideal slotting for CC would ED cap endurance and hold duration with anything leftover for procs... of which the Lockdown is an excellent choice. The power ticks every 5 seconds and has a chance for a MAG 1, 2 or 3 hold to occur each tic. Here's how Local Man explained the power in his Ill/Rad guide:|
Originally Posted by Deep Rootz
I'm sure this is posted on other threads, but I'll ask since I started this one. How do I get choking cloud to work effectively? I noticed it can't be slotted for acc so I figured it would be auto-hit though I've rarely noticed it hit if at all.
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CC is a PB AoE hold power with pulses every 5 seconds. How it works is that your character runs/jumps into the middle of a gang of bad guys. After anywhere from 0 to 5 seconds, the power makes a ToHit check for each foe. If the god of averages is with you and the power hits, then it makes a second check. 80% of the foes will be hit with a Mag 1 hold, which does nothing, and 50% of the foes will be hit with Mag 2, which holds minions. These two types of hold stack, resulting in a combined percentage chance of: 10% chance of no hold at all, 40% chance of only Mag 1 that will not hold anything (other than maybe Rikti monkeys), 10% chance of Mag 2 that will hold minions only, and 40% chance of Mag 3 that will hold Lieutenants or Minions. Any foe actually held will have a green puff of gas show up at their face, showing that they are choking and held. Any foes not held have another 5 seconds to attack you or do whatever before another pulse. All foes in the area will make the check again, where some new ones will get caught by the hold, and others previously held will then not be re-held in the next tick, so when the hold runs out, they will be free. It draws aggro, which can result in a faceplant. It uses a HUGE amount of endurance, substantially reducing other things you can do. |
The Lockdown proc will have a 20% chance to apply a MAG 2 hold on each mob in the area every 10 seconds which will also enhance the ability of CC to stack and hold the group. A damage proc in the power would likewise have a chance to deal damage every 10 seconds so that's another good thing to slot.
Whew, with all of this we're running into severe slot crunch here; 3 slots for endurance so you can run the power at all, 3 slots for hold duration so it can be more effective at stacking holds and then a slot or two for procs... slotting is getting tight.
What I did leveling up was to slot every End/Hold IO I could find into the cloud, the Ghost Widow End/Hold, the Paralytic End/Hold, the Neuronic Shutdown End/Hold and the Essence of Curare End/Hold, the Lockdown proc and the Lockdown Acc/Hold. All of these are very inexpensive. Once I hit 50 I changed the slotting by replacing one of the level 30 End/Hold IO's and the common hold IO with the (purple set) Unbreakable Constraint End/Hold and the Unbreakable Constraint damage proc.
I've also slotted the Gravitational Anchor purple chance to hold proc into Fire Cages... this is a fantastic proc to have on anything with an AOE immobilize. My typical strategy is to run in with Hot Feet/Choking Cloud running and hit Cinders. With the 90% chance of CC hitting everything with a MAG 1 or better hold that usually holds everything in the group. I hit Cages which typically (due to the Grav Anchor proc) holds a couple or three more... toss Char on anything that's been missed and allow Hot Feet and the monkeys to kill the group. Toss EF on any boss or likely LT... it's fairly rare that there's time on a team for RI.
COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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You need 300% recharge in IW to make it permanent. Slotting it with 3x level 50 common Rech IOs, you still need +201% global recharge.|
Originally Posted by UnicyclePeon
So, can you get perma-IW?
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Doable, especially on a /Rad, but not cheap or easy to build for.
Thanks, CMA. However, that description was written with an eye towards DISCOURAGING an Ill/Rad from getting Choking Cloud, so the tone I used was a little more cynical than I would if I was writing a Fire/Rad guide. Fire/Rad and Ice/Rad are the two best builds in the game IMHO to make use of Choking Cloud. The combination with Hot Feet or Arctic Air are what make Choking Cloud work in those builds.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
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Yep, I know that, re-reading it I think I didn't snip it quite soon enough, I was just looking for the mechanics of it since I didn't have them off the top of my head. Sorry if I mis-quoted you.|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
Thanks, CMA. However, that description was written with an eye towards DISCOURAGING an Ill/Rad from getting Choking Cloud, so the tone I used was a little more cynical than I would if I was writing a Fire/Rad guide. Fire/Rad and Ice/Rad are the two best builds in the game IMHO to make use of Choking Cloud. The combination with Hot Feet or Arctic Air are what make Choking Cloud work in those builds.
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COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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You are correct, of course, that any mez will drop your offensive toggles. However, I personally never found that to be a significant issue. Please keep in mind though, that I am basing my responses on an IO'd build, which the OP seemed to be asking about as he mentioned possibly soft-capping defense and perma-AM.|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
The problem with that is that even a 1 second mez will kill Hot Feet/Choking Cloud and you'll have a lengthy wait until they're back again as I mentioned:
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| The base recharge of both of these powers (Hot Feet & Choking Cloud) is 20 seconds; because they're toggles with high end cost and also need slotting for their primary purposes most Fire/Rads won't have them slotted for recharge. |
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The combination of those two powers is what gives a Fire/Rad a large chunk of it's effectiveness; Choking Cloud slotted to ED capped hold duration does an excellent job of stacking holds on mobs while Hot Feet deals the damage and Fire Cages holds them in place. With luck the monkeys are managing to attack the same group you're fighting Loosing those two powers in a fight suddenly drastically reduces your effectiveness, and due to the recharge it will take considerable time to get them back up. Making sure they don't drop in the first place prevents that and keeps you moving at maximum speed. |
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| Oh, don't forget that a mez also drops RI & EF so you could suddenly be facing a large group of suddenly undebuffed mobs looking at you. Keeping those things from happening is more than enough reason for me to snag Psi for IW. |
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Yeah, I'm around there too, at 175% or so. I've never really noticed it being terribly annoying on my Fire/Rad, unlike the annoyance it causes on my set-less Fire/Kin. If I get mezzed there, I'm going to be waiting a long while before getting back into the fight.|
Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen
With nearly 170% recharge from perma AM, nearly perma Hasten and set bonuses, my fire/rad's CC & HF recharge in just under 7.5 seconds with no recharge slotting at all.
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I personally chose Fire for the lovely combination of theme and Fireball. Flashfire>Fire Cages>Enervating Field>Fireball is just wonderful.
Ok I'm on my first fire and first rad...have played both plant/kin and grav/kin to 50, but with fire/rad I'm at a loss when trying to go with defense or resistence. I figured having a self-heal would make a resistence set a better choice, but then again I could be wrong. What would be the major pro's and con's of going with one or the other? Any help is greatly appreciated...thanks in advance