Tell me about firearm functions


Aisynia

 

Posted

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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect View Post
In answer to something Mr. Tow said:

A machine gun works much the same as a semi-auto (at least a submachine gun does).

The difference lies in the mechanism which restrains the firing pin until you pull the trigger. On a semi-auto handgun when you pull the trigger the hook snaps back into place as part of the process. That is why it is called "semi-automatic", because you must pull the trigger with each round fired. On a submachine gun keeping the trigger depressed keeps the hook out of line with the firing pin, allowing it to cycle repeatedly until you release the trigger, which moves the hool back into place.
More accurately, the difference between all semiautomatic and full-automatic actions is that the semi-automatic action does not have a way to keep the 'hook' retracted even if you keep the trigger pulled back. A select-fire weapon will have a dial or lever that allows you to select whether or not the hammer is released at the end of the action cycle.

But not all submachine guns work that way. Pure-blowback weapons can be fundamentally different. Take the German MP-40, which fired from an open bolt -- you draw back the bolt to **** the weapon, and pulling the trigger releases the bolt, which moves forward, strips a round out of the magazine, chambers it, and fires it with the fixed firing pin on the front face of the bolt -- if the bolt goes forward and there is a loaded magazine in the weapon, it will fire. This type of design is where the cliché of dropping a submachine gun and having it go off, spraying bullets everywhere came from; only a wedge that fits a notch in the bottom of the bolt (pulling the trigger draws back the wedge) and a notch that the cocking lever can be hooked into (the 'safety') keep the weapon from firing once cocked. They're simple to make -- most of the MP-40 could be made from metal stampings -- but they require more attention to prevent accidents. Which isn't really a consideration if what you need is maximum production of a reasonably-effective weapon during a war.


"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers

 

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Originally Posted by Panzerwaffen View Post
Full automatic pistols:

Beretta 93R

Glock 18
Add the VP-70-M, the military version, which is burst-capable.
And the Mauser M712 Schnellfeuer, a select-fire version of the C96 "broomhandle" Mauser first produced in 1932, and similar select-fire variants produced several years earlier by the Spanish arms companies Beistegui Hermanos and Astra (Mauser began production of the M712 when they discovered Astra was selling more 'Mausers' than Mauser was).


"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers

 

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Originally Posted by srmalloy View Post
Tell that to Magnum Research, the company that manufactures the Desert Eagle. They make the Desert Eagle in a number of finishes: Standard Black, Polished and Blued, Black Chrome, Matte Chrome, Brushed Chrome, Polished Chrome, Satin Nickel, Bright Nickel, 24 Carat Gold, Titanium Gold, Titanium Carbon Nitride, and Titanium Gold Tiger Stripe. Except for Standard Black and Black Chrome, the first eight finishes are also available with 24K gold appointments (pictures showing them are here, and yes, the ones incorporating gold or titanium look like you'd expect to find the owner fondling the gun rather than shooting it).
Oh, I know they make them. That doesn't mean I have to accept them. That's like getting a Jeep and slamming the suspension and putting 60 series tires on it. It's just wrong. Sure someone will buy it, and some companies will cater to that utter lack of taste, but Eww.

Just. Eww.

Guns come in two colors. Black and matte stainless. The only exception is the Colt Python which should be nickel plated.


My first short story (detective fiction) came out in Jan-2012. Other stories and books to follow, I hope. Because of "real writing". COH was a big part of that happening.

 

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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow View Post
I guess some kind of squash head explosive might be the answer, which would both punch through armour and, typically, explode what's behind it, so I don't know.
Actually, HESH (aka 'HEP') rounds do not "penetrate" armor; the round flattens against the target and detonates, causing shockwaves through the armor that reflect when they hit the inner surface of the armor, creating an interference pattern that spalls fragments off the inner surface of the armor. Because of this, spaced or composite armor significantly reduces the effectiveness of HESH warheads, and the use of Kevlar spall liners further reduces their utility. Their primary use in modern warfare is against fortifications, as HESH rounds rely on spin stabilization in flight, which means they can't be fired from the modern smoothbore tank guns.


"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers

 

Posted

While the information thus provided is incredibly interesting, I'm afraid it's getting slightly out of my field to even comment on, so I'm restricting myself to just reading and trying to see if I get it. For the most part, I'm surprised to say I do

Quote:
Originally Posted by srmalloy View Post
Equally funny is the movie cliché of jamming the muzzle of the pistol into someone's back/side/armpit -- with most semiautomatics, doing that will push the action back a little, which will prevent the weapon from firing.
Yeah, that's something I noticed on the toy gun I mentioned. Since the barrel itself is somewhat below the top of the slider, shoving the gun into someone's back depresses the top of the slider and moves it ever so slightly backwards, exposing more of the barrel. I hadn't thought about it, but that might indeed block the action of the gun, which would be pretty... Counter-productive

But this cliché is silly on face value, coming from what I can only presume is a complete lack of knowhow in firearms. Like people who fire pistols from the hip for absolutely no reason. I mean, when I was a kid and had never so much as held a gun-shaped object, that seemed really cool, but when you actually try it out, you realise there is no way to aim the gun like this, even across a room. That turns accuracy into a total crapshot.

Doing a combination of the above two on James Bond is just asking for trouble.

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Actually, HESH (aka 'HEP') rounds do not "penetrate" armor; the round flattens against the target and detonates, causing shockwaves through the armor that reflect when they hit the inner surface of the armor, creating an interference pattern that spalls fragments off the inner surface of the armor. Because of this, spaced or composite armor significantly reduces the effectiveness of HESH warheads, and the use of Kevlar spall liners further reduces their utility. Their primary use in modern warfare is against fortifications, as HESH rounds rely on spin stabilization in flight, which means they can't be fired from the modern smoothbore tank guns.
That was actually in response to trying to figure out what an "armour-piercing, concussive round" might be, but Arcana proved right. Upon retrying the game, it was indeed revealed that it was "a concussion pistol firing .90 calibre armour piercing rounds," by which I assume they mean a pistol firing round by some futuristic sci-fi means, given that it's set in a space-faring future. I kind of suspected that explosive rounds can't be armour-piercing, and as it turns out, they don't have to be.

To be honest, from how the Faust sounds when it fires, I suspect it might be some sort of railgun, considering it has a 15-round magazine of .90 caibre rounds.


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Originally Posted by Arcanaville View Post
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

 

Posted

Just want to comment on a couple of things from a LE firearms instructor standpoint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by srmalloy View Post
Equally funny is the movie cliché of jamming the muzzle of the pistol into someone's back/side/armpit -- with most semiautomatics, doing that will push the action back a little, which will prevent the weapon from firing.
This can be easily prevented by the shooter wrapping their support hand over the top of the slide and physically holding it in battery while firing. Yes, you'll end up with a single shot pistol and have to step back and manually cycle the slide after the first shot, but it does allow a successful contact distance shot. I'm not sure if they still train their agents in this, but at one time the U.S. DEA taught their undercover agents this technique. I was taught this in an instructor course, and despite my initial skepticism, I found it actually works quite well.

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Double-action semiautomatics give the shooter a 'second chance' when a round fails to fire -- they can pull the trigger again to **** and drop the hammer; single-action semiautomatics with an external hammer can be recocked and fired again, but that generally takes both hands. Hammerless or internal-hammer weapons don't have that option, falling back to the same recourse as the others when the second try proves the round to be a dud -- cycle the action to eject the round and chamber a new one.
Again, speaking from a purely defensive training perspective, we never teach shooters to waste time messing around with pulling the trigger a second time if the weapon fails to fire. They are trained to perform what is commonly called an Immediate Action Drill to clear the malfunction and chamber a fresh cartridge. There are simply too many different malfunctions that could cause a weapon to not fire and even in the case of a dud cartridge, striking the primer again is highly unlikely to do anything. "Second strike" capability is a something hyped by certain manufacturers that has absolutely no relevance in the real world. In essence, it is the proverbial solution in search of a problem.