Like was posted in your thread on the same subject on the Player Questions forum, you CANNOT get to Tanker level resistances on a Scrapper, the Resistance caps won't let you.
You can get to be pretty tough, especially if you go for Defense bonuses, but you can't get as tough resistance-wise.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
Here's a quick build along the lines of CMA's Defense Cap HOWTO.
Note: It's really, really rough at the moment, so take it with a grain of salt.
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
I heard you the first time dude. No need to be rude. I was simply taking the advice of someone else who suggested that I post the question in this section.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Like was posted in your thread on the same subject on the Player Questions forum, you CANNOT get to Tanker level resistances on a Scrapper, the Resistance caps won't let you.
You can get to be pretty tough, especially if you go for Defense bonuses, but you can't get as tough resistance-wise. |
Uhm... from my perspective Aett wasn't being rude, but just reiterating something you'd already been informed of.... 
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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Quote:
Resistance bonuses just aren't there, and slotting for them not efficient enough, to achieve the same level of resistance that a tanker is going to get. Defense is better for your purpose than resistance is.|
Originally Posted by troy26
How possible is it, with set bonuses and such to make an invul. scrapper reach tanker level resistance and, if it is possible, roughly how expensive would it be to do so ( I know the market fluctuates...just asking for a rough estimate)
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It is indeed possible to build a tanking scrapper. You want a defense set that is both defense-oriented and incliudes a taunt aura, and build for defense softcaps.
Shields is ideal. Invuln works, but you need defense, not resistance. I've also made a Spines/Willpower scrapper that can tank; Spines doesn't need to rely on a taunt aura for control. Picking an attack set with powers that boost your defense (Katana, Broadsword) also help.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
You can make an invuln scrapper tough, but that isn't all. You'll probably also need quite a lot of AoE to properly tank bigger spawns. I can easily survive the aggro of a large spawn or a few AVs on my Kat/Inv, but that doesn't mean I can hold the aggro of a squishier scrapper with more damage output.
Tanking spread out spawns takes some effort as I need to jump around them trying to aggro everyone. With a tank it's a lot more simple because I just need to jump in and hit taunt to get everyone who isn't in melee range focused on me.
Then there is the questions; what are you willing to sacrifice in order to get your scrapper to tanker level of survivability? If you're willing to sacrifice damage output, why not just roll a tanker in the first place? You need less defense bonuses which allows for more recharge to get you to the "gimped" scrapper level damage. Just saying.
How tough do you think "tankerish" actually is? A lot depends on that. IO'd or basic SOs tanker? I made a compromise with my Kat/Inv to get something inbetween. I went for a lot of Defense and Regen, but also got a good chunk of recharge to help me with damage dealing.
Repeating myself here, but I just don't think it's worth to roll a scrapper just to build him like a tanker and totally ignore what a scrapper is supposed to do: damage.
If you want to, there are a few good guides out there for Invuln characters. Those include for example mine and Call_Me_Awesome's guides.
- @DSorrow - alts on Union and Freedom mostly -
Currently playing as Castigation on Freedom
My Katana/Inv Guide
Anyone who doesn't take truth seriously in small matters cannot be trusted in large ones either. -Einstein
Quote:
That was the first time Aett posted on this matter. |
Originally Posted by troy26
I heard you the first time dude. No need to be rude. I was simply taking the advice of someone else who suggested that I post the question in this section.
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You already posted in the Player Questions forum and got the same/correct answer.
You re-post in the correct forum and get another correct answer.
To show that you appreciate the help...you call them rude?
What the hell?
Quote:
Wrong. Remember, Invuln is a layered armor set. You need both defense and resistance. Just, with a scrapper, you have to accept that your resists will NOT cap out like a tank's would.
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Originally Posted by Heraclea
Invuln works, but you need defense, not resistance.
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Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
Maybe he's still tense about the sacking.
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Originally Posted by Vitality
What the hell?
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
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The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Quote:
Well, I assumed she meant "because you can't add enough resistance through IO sets to spit on," you need defense. But I'm not sure why Shields is better than Invuln for that. Seems like you can get both to the soft cap (with effort) and once there, Invuln has tougher resists against stuff that does hit you.
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Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Wrong. Remember, Invuln is a layered armor set. You need both defense and resistance. Just, with a scrapper, you have to accept that your resists will NOT cap out like a tank's would.
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If we are to die, let us die like men. -- Patrick Cleburne
----------------------------------------------------------
The rule is that they must be loved. --Jayne Fynes-Clinton, Death of an Abandoned Dog
Thanks for the support, all. To the OP: I was not trying to be rude, but I can see how it came off that way. I apologize for coming off that way, though, so please forgive.
All I was trying to say was that the answer here is pretty much the same as what you got in the PQ forum: that you can't get to Tanker-level resistances. However, as many have said in this thread, you can make yourself very tough. I do agree that Defense bonuses are what you're going to want to go for, over Resistance bonuses, because it's just plain easier to do.
Going for some Recharge bonuses would be good, too, in order to try to get Dull Pain to be permanently up. It's fairly easy to get to that level of Recharge, and can help a bit, especially against damage types that you won't have Defense towards, such as Psy and Toxic.
So, if you're trying to make an /Invuln Scrapper very tough, go for Defense and Recharge bonuses, and don't focus on Resistance bonuses, unless they come in sets you're already going for.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
If you could make a scrapper with tanker level resistances why would you need tanks ???
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Quote:
You can get both to the soft cap --- but it's somewhat easier to do that with Shields than with Invuln. Yes, both Shields and Invuln are mixed sets, with some reistance and defense. |
Originally Posted by Sailboat
Well, I assumed she meant "because you can't add enough resistance through IO sets to spit on," you need defense. But I'm not sure why Shields is better than Invuln for that. Seems like you can get both to the soft cap (with effort) and once there, Invuln has tougher resists against stuff that does hit you.
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But the scrapper is going to start out with defense of around 14% from the set itself (assuming 1 enemy) before you start to add pool powers and defense bonuses, while the tanker starts out from around 18% - not counting the enemies in melee bonus The tanker also gets more out of Weave. It's still going to be less expensive to get to the cap on the tanker, who starts with a small but not insurmountable advantage. The bottom line is that the scrapper is going to cost more or accept more otherwise suboptimal slotting in pursuit of bonuses.
Your shield scrapper is going to start out from a base of around 22% from the defense set alone; that's not affected by foes in range. Going on defense alone, the shield scrapper starts from a better base than the invuln tanker.
Since adding defense is the slot-efficient (if not inf-efficient) way to add survivability to a melee character, the shield scrapper starts out ahead of the invuln tanker. Invuln has other advantages, of course; but if you're building a tough scrapper you start out ahead with Shields.
<《 New Colchis / Guides / Mission Architect 》>
"At what point do we say, 'You're mucking with our myths'?" - Harlan Ellison
Quote:
I asked how "tankerish" I could make an invul. scrapper...empahsis on the "ish"...meaning how much of an approximation I could hope to achieve...I never implied that I expected to be able to completely duplicate a tank's abilities.
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Originally Posted by troy26
I heard you the first time dude. No need to be rude. I was simply taking the advice of someone else who suggested that I post the question in this section.
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Quote:
Thanks for the help
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Thanks for the support, all. To the OP: I was not trying to be rude, but I can see how it came off that way. I apologize for coming off that way, though, so please forgive.
All I was trying to say was that the answer here is pretty much the same as what you got in the PQ forum: that you can't get to Tanker-level resistances. However, as many have said in this thread, you can make yourself very tough. I do agree that Defense bonuses are what you're going to want to go for, over Resistance bonuses, because it's just plain easier to do. Going for some Recharge bonuses would be good, too, in order to try to get Dull Pain to be permanently up. It's fairly easy to get to that level of Recharge, and can help a bit, especially against damage types that you won't have Defense towards, such as Psy and Toxic. So, if you're trying to make an /Invuln Scrapper very tough, go for Defense and Recharge bonuses, and don't focus on Resistance bonuses, unless they come in sets you're already going for. |
Quote:
Same reason you need tanks even though you can make a scrapper with tanker level defense. Better aggro management tools, and easier time getting that defense/resistance, higher base HP and HP cap and the associated improvement to regeneration and click heals.
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Originally Posted by Airhammer
If you could make a scrapper with tanker level resistances why would you need tanks ???
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TEH WERDZ ON SKREEN HURTZ MI BRANE!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by troy26
How possible is it, with set bonuses and such to make an invul. scrapper reach tanker level resistance and, if it is possible, roughly how expensive would it be to do so ( I know the market fluctuates...just asking for a rough estimate)
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sailboat
Well, I assumed she meant "because you can't add enough resistance through IO sets to spit on," you need defense. But I'm not sure why Shields is better than Invuln for that. Seems like you can get both to the soft cap (with effort) and once there, Invuln has tougher resists against stuff that does hit you.
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I use a spines/vuln and a fire/shield. Both are comparable and capable. The spines/vuln has a choice of aid self or tough with my build, and I chose aid self even with dull pain. the extra bit of healing, around DoT, is very helpful. I do not know which is better/faster at farming. The spines/vuln is more sturdy. When using the same AE mission, the spines/vuln does much better on +2/*8 than the fire/shield. The fire shield does get dropped from the lucky hits. It doesnt matter if the most of the spawn is defeated from shield charge if the remaining bosses each hit you....
the builds i posted are not the right way or the wrong way to build them. It is just the way I have chosen. (I have made a few adjustments to my fire/shield and my version on live is different from the build. On this I have added Aid Self, but no slotting for it... still working out the kinks for a final build. Also... the level slotting is for looking at sets, not how i would choose to go from 1 to 50....)
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Spines
Secondary Power Set: Invulnerability
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Speed
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lunge -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(11), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(13), KntkC'bat-Knock%(13), P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(15), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(33)
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ResDam-I(33)
Level 2: Spine Burst -- Erad-Dmg/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(3), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(11), Erad-Acc/Rchg(42)
Level 4: Dull Pain -- Numna-Heal/Rchg(A), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(5), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(5), Mrcl-EndRdx/Rchg(7), Mrcl-Heal(7), Numna-Heal(9)
Level 6: Temp Invulnerability -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(37), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(37), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 8: Impale -- Dev'n-Acc/Dmg(A), Dev'n-Dmg/Rchg(15), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(43)
Level 10: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 12: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 16: Unyielding -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(39), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(40), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(40)
Level 18: Quills -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(19), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(19), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(21), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx(21)
Level 20: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(23), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(23), RgnTis-Regen+(40), Heal-I(43)
Level 22: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod(25), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(25)
Level 24: Stimulant -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 26: Ripper -- Erad-Dmg/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(27), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(29), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(29), Erad-Acc/Rchg(46)
Level 28: Invincibility -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(31), HO:Cyto(31), Rec'dRet-ToHit(46), Rec'dRet-Pcptn(50)
Level 30: Flurry -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(33), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(45)
Level 32: Throw Spines -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(34), Det'tn-Dmg/Rchg(34), AirB'st-Dmg/Rchg(36), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(36)
Level 35: Tough Hide -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(39), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(43)
Level 38: Aid Self -- Numna-Heal/Rchg(A), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(39), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(42), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 41: Resist Energies -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(45), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(45), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 44: Super Speed -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 47: Resist Elements -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam(48), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(48), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(42), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1401;729;1458;HEX;| |78DAA5534B4F135114BED30E4CE9BB16288FD2178F5228852E4C54147C208AA149A| |1801B959472D5499A696D0B022B7F802B4DDC18C24371E3C28531C6F88F447F433D| |8FDB6ADC3A49BF6FCEB9DF777BE69C7B737B0B6E215ECC0BCD7BAB5CACD7370BA55| |AB15A9535476EA7516C98154B1842889E567A3327CB52665676CC72B91E6B6717E4| |6369D56566C9DADD295BB256DC32CB66633FB0643D9535693532AD1777BE5229679| |665B16A5A4F3858341B96ACD73D14E4E4B659322DE9A4A85095723B78BB6A9632F7| |C152B13673C57A43D6F6FBA0A614FC8EB0387A9A1D220F9410CE1522F72AD31A91F| |72E5058C4EE010D89597469E4D24448C3542C0D51561C1B6A01F6D3CE6DE8B1FDB4| |A1C0F68BC871006B31E1DC234AFDA0E43570D995CB5ED07045BF039414FA2A50547| |42E52D4B944E45827C95570757015F68E08AD8C2498A24C71A253D0196A77E31D95| |E93D23F29F5015FE538A868F299A3822EA054B17EF2EBA2224E884944BA55CE3940| |A41CAC37B0B0FA7E621E55365F9B8AC312E2BC96525B9ACF7A00BB04E0F1C90F5C2| |2E5383A8FB39D3332203E441250F6E6898EA5D675A234ACED120264648EE00790FC| |B6D3DAF6D98EA7BC5F48628028290AA3C34499E3348F5AB46F59FD364067878033C| |BC304F2DBC4B34C5C3BB01AE414DA3C2062F02E97611F987A7DE823428B28744710| |37DDCA1213E749102518C0F5D9A8FE0070367CF9F1CFD4C25C6BF307DE2897D64FA| |4A7413E409F5C9896EEAC9989F6822401405C1A8FADFD1020BF898A5721465B993D| |74137AE2638CE134CF304D33CC1699EE030E826550B2707ED689D83544659336C9D| |4EFCEDC9F20E27A09B51D619EE7E586F5F45BBBA8A71EE4A8ADB31C5CD59D6DB970| |F6E0DCD32AFB76F9DD09AF088E81FD17F3DDFDCAD7DBA569D806B0879006D03DF1E| |203CC4F011BE15F16D0BA18461F3BBBBF549BE4B58D065842B08B3082F5164B8005| |C086E040F8217C187E0470822F4220C201C22347F034F33ED3C| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Secondary Power Set: Shield Defense
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Medicine
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Sword -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(5), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(5), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), T'Death-Dam%(9)
Level 1: Deflection -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(3), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(3), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39), RedFtn-Def(42), RedFtn-EndRdx(42)
Level 2: Cremate -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(9), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(11), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(13), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), T'Death-Dam%(15)
Level 4: True Grit -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ResDam-I(15), Numna-Heal(17), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(17), Numna-Heal/Rchg(19), RgnTis-Regen+(19)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(40), Zephyr-ResKB(40)
Level 8: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 10: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Battle Agility -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(29), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39), RedFtn-Def(42), RedFtn-EndRdx(43)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(39)
Level 16: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(21), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(21), Heal-I(48)
Level 18: Fire Sword Circle -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(23), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(25), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(27), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(29), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(40), P'Shift-End%(50), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 22: Against All Odds -- Taunt-I(A)
Level 24: Phalanx Fighting -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 26: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(46), RechRdx-I(48)
Level 28: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(31), Aegis-Psi/Status(31), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Aegis-ResDam(34)
Level 32: Greater Fire Sword -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(33), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(33), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), T'Death-Dam%(34)
Level 35: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(36), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Oblit-%Dam(37)
Level 38: Weave -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(43), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(43), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), RedFtn-Def(45), RedFtn-EndRdx(45)
Level 41: Incinerate -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(46), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 44: One with the Shield -- ResDam-I(A)
Level 47: Stimulant -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Aid Self -- Heal-I(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Code:
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YMMV---IMO
Ice Ember
You should be able to build both a Invuln and a Shield that can survive pretty much anything.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Quote:
spines/vuln is more survivable. the fire/shield kills faster. used +2/*8 with Bobcat followers. Both are absolute beasts.
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Originally Posted by Airhammer
You should be able to build both a Invuln and a Shield that can survive pretty much anything.
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YMMV---IMOIce Ember
How possible is it, with set bonuses and such to make an invul. scrapper reach tanker level resistance and, if it is possible, roughly how expensive would it be to do so ( I know the market fluctuates...just asking for a rough estimate)