Streamline zone travel via Ouroboros and bases
By
BlueRaptor,
Posted on: 2009-12-07 02:26 in Suggestions and Ideas
I hate to be a wet blanket... but I suspect we've probably seen the last of non-direct-travel-power locomotion improvements for CoH / CoV. The recent Natural Pack and AE release has sort of brought a problem into focus. More and more players are trying to find ways of skipping real travel powers, and ways of doing content while avoiding actually going to the content.
From a design standpoint, I can see the inherent perceived value in the lack of zone changes or actually having to go someplace that's not easily reachable.
Also from a design standpoint, that's the sort of design that tends to kill long-term interest. The game would essentially make the same mistake Planetside made. For reference, Planetside used to be a campaign based war-simulation. Commanders had to organize troop transport, armor transport, armor columns, supply chains, and other aspects of moving a large military force across a large open area. When the developers changed the Lattice Link System and the WarpGates to allow players to simply bypass entire contents with armor, supplies, or troops, interest fell off dramatically. Planetside gutted itself into a session-based game, similar to Unreal Tournament or Quake... and that caused the subscriber base to tumble.
Of the little information we have from HeroCon, we do know that Going Rogue is probably putting an emphasis back on having travel powers. We know that the zones are huge, and if I recall a post in the Going Rogue information thread, the central area in this picture could house all of Atlas Park, meaning that the buildings on the size are expect to be the literal size of Atlas Park.
Now, I know that there are probably several players who would speak up and say that further efforts to reduce actual travel time would help the game... but... looking around at other MMO's and the empirical sales evidence that is available, I think it's more likely that further modifying the travel system would do more harm to the player base. It'll just make it easier for players to avoid actually exploring the game, and that, that's a bad thing.
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There has to be a middle ground. On the one side, you've got a game with so many way to teleport you from one spot to another, you may as well just have a menu selecting what mission you want to go to, and not even have scenery. On the other side, you've got a game where travel take so long, nobody wants to do it at all.|
Originally Posted by je_saist
Now, I know that there are probably several players who would speak up and say that further efforts to reduce actual travel time would help the game... but... looking around at other MMO's and the empirical sales evidence that is available, I think it's more likely that further modifying the travel system would do more harm to the player base. It'll just make it easier for players to avoid actually exploring the game, and that, that's a bad thing.
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I think for the most part, we've got that middle ground now. Player complain about places like Independence Port and Nerva Archipelago - evidence that these zones lean too far towards "travel takes too long". But overall, I think we're pretty good as it stands.
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
There's a few inherent differences between Planetside and CoH, the most important one being that Planetside is a purely PvP game and what you describe sounds like a long stream of hauling equipment from point A to point B just so one could get to the "playing" part and if the elimination of the grind caused the playerbase to plummet, well...
Back on the topic of CoH, I'm not asking for a reduction of travel time - only loading time. Neither the base teleport nor Ouroboros drop you off at the mission door - you still have to hoof it from the drop point to the mission itself. I'm just suggesting making the middle point optional - the zone you enter, then turn around and leave as soon as it's done loading. To try a make a flowcharty representation..
Currently:
Ouroboros portal -> [Loading screen] Ouroboros -> Pick an Ouroboros-connected zone [Loading screen] -> Run from zone drop point to mission door
Proposed:
Ouroboros portal -> Pick an Ouroboros-connected zone -> [Loading screen] -> Run from zone drop point to mission door
With similar principle applied to bases. It skips not the actual travel distance, but the loading of zones you'll spend only the amount of time needed to jump to your final destination.
Personally, I'm against any and all further travel amenities, and I'm actually not even a fan of the Ninja Run. I remember a time when, if you needed to go somewhere, you had to get off your butt and actually GO there, rather than clicking a power to teleport you there while you turn on the TV. I've taken a lot of heat for saying this, but I'm not going to change my mind on the subject.
The zones we have are pretty cool, and travelling around them from time to time should be an integral part of the game. Not when someone has nothing better to do than to just fly around, either, as people would simply never do that. Right now, people complain they have to switch zones once. If a mission in Talos Island sends them to Steel Canyon, oh no! And I still remember a time when a mission in Founders' Falls sent me to Kings Row with no teleporters of any kind, and not even a Green Line In FF. I don't want a return to that time, because it really did suck, but travelling and outdoor activities need to remain an integral part of the game.
Ouroboros too cumbersome to travel? Then don't use it. There are inter-zone links dispersed everywhere. Granted, you'll probably still load just as much, but in less of a big clump.
Look, I'm the last person to tell other people how they should play and what they should do, but as long as we have outdoor zones, we need to have some tasks that take us through them.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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If loading screens bug you that much, it sounds like you need to upgrade your PC, in all seriousness.
I know how bad it can get, too. My old dino PC back home used to take...ooo, upwards of six-seven minutes to load a mission? Sometimes longer fo a zone. Back then, as soon as anyone said 'Faultline' my heart fell.
My laptop improved on that, although it was still a tad slow zoning at times.
My NEW Rig devours load times like they dont exist, and the difference to enjoyment is massive.
Travel isn't so much a problem. My one travel gripe is how Blueside has such a clunky system, with the two tram lines and things like flipping Faultline getting left off the map all together. But hey, that may just be me.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Originally Posted by je_saist
Now, I know that there are probably several players who would speak up and say that further efforts to reduce actual travel time would help the game... but... looking around at other MMO's and the empirical sales evidence that is available, I think it's more likely that further modifying the travel system would do more harm to the player base. It'll just make it easier for players to avoid actually exploring the game, and that, that's a bad thing.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Personally, I'm against any and all further travel amenities, and I'm actually not even a fan of the Ninja Run. I remember a time when, if you needed to go somewhere, you had to get off your butt and actually GO there, rather than clicking a power to teleport you there while you turn on the TV. I've taken a lot of heat for saying this, but I'm not going to change my mind on the subject.
The zones we have are pretty cool, and travelling around them from time to time should be an integral part of the game. Not when someone has nothing better to do than to just fly around, either, as people would simply never do that. Right now, people complain they have to switch zones once. If a mission in Talos Island sends them to Steel Canyon, oh no! And I still remember a time when a mission in Founders' Falls sent me to Kings Row with no teleporters of any kind, and not even a Green Line In FF. I don't want a return to that time, because it really did suck, but travelling and outdoor activities need to remain an integral part of the game. Ouroboros too cumbersome to travel? Then don't use it. There are inter-zone links dispersed everywhere. Granted, you'll probably still load just as much, but in less of a big clump. Look, I'm the last person to tell other people how they should play and what they should do, but as long as we have outdoor zones, we need to have some tasks that take us through them. |
Moving through zones IS part of playing the game. There is a world where those missions take place in and there's a flair and a story it tells you and other players to meet there.
If you (in general, not you in person) think that is too boring or annoying or takes too long, you should maybe look for another MMO that has faster travel. Good luck trying to find one.
As far as I am concerned, I see the ability to choose a destination from Orouboros as something stupid that shouldnt be there. It made people use Orouboros as a nifty method of travel, which is clearly NOT what the place is meant for. I'd be very happy if said swirl just teleported you back to the zone you came from like the base portal.
And yes, instead they could put up more train stations per zone, and a yellow and green one closer together. And open up that tunnel between Port Oaks and Cap. That'd make much more sense than using a time-travel quest hub as a zone teleporter, reachable from any location, with convenient onboard store.
If you want people to actually travel then you shouldn't complain about Ninja Run, since it makes travelling more fun and is slower than most other travel powers (usually), so people will spend more time travelling and have more fun doing it.
I still support Quinch's suggestion since it removes a zoning, which must be better for everyone: the server, the network, our clients and the players who don't have to wait for no good reason, or suffer a potential crash if they have a spotty connection/slow computer.
Winner of Players' Choice Best Villainous Arc 2010: Fear and Loathing on Striga; ID #350522
A simple {in concept, anyway, SCR applies} suggestion - considering how much use Ouroboros and bases see purely for the sake of inter-zone travel, it might be useful to simply skip the middleman and allow for direct travel to connecting zones.
For example, clicking on the Ouroboros portal, instead of automatically transporting you to Ouroboros could provide a train-style list of Ouroboros and the zones it connects to {Atlas, Indy, Talos etc.}, thus eliminating the middleman and the attached loading times. Ditto for bases - if a base a player can enter has teleport pads, the available zones are attached to the list of bases one can enter without having to load and navigate said base to reach the teleport pad to where you want to go.
Thoughts?