Kinetic Combat and Super Strength
By
ClawsandEffect,
Posted on: 2009-11-04 03:16 in Archetypes and Powers General Discussion
Quote:
AFAIK, you'd just gain an extra chance of KD, not convert it to KB.
|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Just a quick question.
Punch and Haymaker have a 30% and 60% chance for knockdown built into the power. If I were to put the Kinetic Combat knockdown proc in them and they triggered at the same time, would they stack to become knockback? Just wondering because I thought it would be kinda cool to sometimes knock them down, and every so often send them flying. Seems thematically appropriate to me. |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
If both chance for KD happen, and the sum of the values is greater than 1 (possibly equal as well, not sure), then it will become KB.
|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
AFAIK, you'd just gain an extra chance of KD, not convert it to KB.
|
Quote:
Cool, if that's true my tank will be fun to play later on. |
Originally Posted by Kahlan_
If both chance for KD happen, and the sum of the values is greater than 1 (possibly equal as well, not sure), then it will become KB.
|
I'm not one of the melee players who shuns knockback. It's completely appropriate for a guy as big as my tank to knock a normal sized dude across a room with a punch. Especialy if he's strong enough to rip a chunk of concrete up and throw it 80 feet.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Cool, if that's true my tank will be fun to play later on.
I'm not one of the melee players who shuns knockback. It's completely appropriate for a guy as big as my tank to knock a normal sized dude across a room with a punch. Especialy if he's strong enough to rip a chunk of concrete up and throw it 80 feet. |
Note, that given that you only need 4 pieces of Kinetic Combat, you can use a KB set to fill out the last two slots and give you KB in your attacks now. It can be great fun. My Ice/Energy Blaster has a full set of KB enhancers (which also enhances damage, acc, etc.) and she can knock a grey mob about two blocks!
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
For a while, I used the Kin Combat procs to add KD to my MA/Regen Stalker's attacks that did not already have KB/KD, including Assassin's Strike. The result was a surprising increase in mitigation. Having the KD proc go off on a boss you just AS'd from steath was surprisingly effective, because of the amount of extra damage I could safely deliver while they stood back up. It made most fights much more of a sure thing.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Note, that given that you only need 4 pieces of Kinetic Combat, you can use a KB set to fill out the last two slots and give you KB in your attacks now. It can be great fun. My Ice/Energy Blaster has a full set of KB enhancers (which also enhances damage, acc, etc.) and she can knock a grey mob about two blocks!
|
Thing is, I'd prefer the random chance of knockback, rather than guaranteed knockback every time it triggers.
I was already planning on using Kinetic Combat for the Smashing/Lethal defense, I was asking the question to help me decide if the KD proc was going to be one of them.
It just sounded like a cool way to have a more dynamic combat experience to sometimes knock them down, sometimes knock them back, and sometimes not knock them at all. Kinda makes it feel more like a real fight in a way.
Adding KB enhancers would just turn it into KB or nothing, I like the idea of 3 possibilities instead of 2.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
It'll do two things. It'll increase the changes of knockdown for every attack, but it will add that chance that they both fire at the same time and become knockback. I actually had the plan to use these sets on my SS/WP brute.
Take punch for example: 30% chance to knockdown, +20% chance to knockdown from the proc. Roughly a 50% chance to knockdown and a 6% chance at knockback, but let me do the math.
.3*.8+.7*.2 = 0.38 That's the odds that only one chance for knockdown will happen, so I was off by a lot. 38% of the time punch will knockdown slotted this way.
.3*.2 = 0.06 This is the chance that they both fire and your target is knocked back.
Add them together for the total chance to be knocked(back/down) and you get 44%.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
You fail at statistics! NEG-REP! |
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Add them together for the total chance to be knocked(back/down) and you get 44%.
|
You don't add them together. The chance of being KB'ed is a subset of the total chance to be KD'ed.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
Wait, what? I thought I explained that better.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
You fail at statistics! NEG-REP!
You don't add them together. The chance of being KB'ed is a subset of the total chance to be KD'ed. |
The first case is the odds of getting knocked down only.
The second case is getting knocked back only.
Adding together is the total chance for some sort of knock, be it down or back.
EDIT: Perhaps better wording is this:
(.3*.8) = chance that punch does knockdown times the chance that KC does not do knockdown.
(.7*.2) = chance that punch does not do knockdown times the chance that KC does knockdown.
Adding those together is the total chance for knockdown ONLY. 38%
The chance that they both fire is not a subset of that because I include in the calculation the chance that the other does not fire. The chance that they both fire at the same time is (.3*.2), or 6%. Add that to the 38% for the total chance that some form of mitigation happens.
I do not fail at statistics. I spent enough time in the gambling industry to know my odds.
EDIT AGAIN: I don't want to come across as arrogant or egotistical, but I did feel the need to be a bit defensive. I am very sure in my mathematical knowledge.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
Okay, went back and re-read it. It turns out I fail at read english total bad!|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
Wait, what? I thought I explained that better.
|
PAY NO ATTENTION TO THAT MAN BEHIND THE FACEPALM!
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
Knock is a very underestimated mitigation tool, that's for sure.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
For a while, I used the Kin Combat procs to add KD to my MA/Regen Stalker's attacks that did not already have KB/KD, including Assassin's Strike. The result was a surprising increase in mitigation. Having the KD proc go off on a boss you just AS'd from steath was surprisingly effective, because of the amount of extra damage I could safely deliver while they stood back up. It made most fights much more of a sure thing.
|
For all the flak it catches, Energy Blast is a very survivable set because of all the knock it's got. If you really think about it, knocking a foe down is pretty much equivalent to a very short (1-2s) mez. And the fun thing about knock is that relatively few foes actively resist it, compared to actual mezzes, that is.
Head of TRICK, the all Trick Arrow and Traps SG
Part of the Repeat Offenders
Still waiting for his Official BackAlleyBrawler No-Prize
Quote:
Totally made my day, right here.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Okay, went back and re-read it. It turns out I fail at read english total bad!
|
I R EN-GUH-NEER! I R know maths but not good explain things for other persons read them right.
Er, what I mean is I probably didn't write it well enough.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Rush_Bolt
Knock is a very underestimated mitigation tool, that's for sure.
For all the flak it catches, Energy Blast is a very survivable set because of all the knock it's got. If you really think about it, knocking a foe down is pretty much equivalent to a very short (1-2s) mez. And the fun thing about knock is that relatively few foes actively resist it, compared to actual mezzes, that is. |
True. My beef is with AoE KB, not ST knock attacks. Even in a melee set, KB isn't so bad. But it annoys me that every character OTHER than my Energy Blaster who has access to Energy Torrent has it.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
Does Jab take disorient sets? There is also a chance for knockback proc in Stupefy, which could be humorous on a quick-jab.
The Bacon Compels You.
Very few people I know of slot that proc, because it's actually knockback, where the KinCombat is knockdown. Visually, that would indeed be amusing on a quick jab. It's also pretty silly looking on Oppressive Gloom. (It's pretty silly in that power tactically, too but it does look funny.)
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
I've done the same thing for added mitigation for my elec/elec scrapper as well. Makes things flat-out stupid easy, especially when it's firing off in succession via Chain Induction in a group. Can be amusing to see a few of them suddenly flail around and flip onto their backs while I'm launching other attacks in mishes spawned for 8.
|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
For a while, I used the Kin Combat procs to add KD to my MA/Regen Stalker's attacks that did not already have KB/KD, including Assassin's Strike. The result was a surprising increase in mitigation. Having the KD proc go off on a boss you just AS'd from steath was surprisingly effective, because of the amount of extra damage I could safely deliver while they stood back up. It made most fights much more of a sure thing.
|
Quote:
|
Daemonchilde: ((fluffy thinks he's a tank)) Demon . Hunter: (( I think mine is >.> Daemonchilde: ((Yours is no longer fluffy, it is Obliteron, destroyer of worlds)) |
Quote:
Friend of mine did that with their DM/DA scrapper.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
It's also pretty silly looking on Oppressive Gloom. (It's pretty silly in that power tactically, too but it does look funny.)
|
Called it the Jedi Mind Trick ... since when it proc-ed, it sent almost everything flying (away...).
It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...
Just a quick question.
Punch and Haymaker have a 30% and 60% chance for knockdown built into the power.
If I were to put the Kinetic Combat knockdown proc in them and they triggered at the same time, would they stack to become knockback?
Just wondering because I thought it would be kinda cool to sometimes knock them down, and every so often send them flying. Seems thematically appropriate to me.
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.