Defender Inherit

Heh....I think it's a bit too late for wide-sweeping changes like what I proposed. I was saying what I said if I was making CoH from the start not changing everything now.

Right now like the one poster said above...if you have good controllers (people who know how to play them and have the right/good combinations of powersets) there is almost 0 reason to have a Defender on the team. Multiple controllers can hold the whole mobs/extra aggro and buff/debuff to boot. Defenders can do damage after their buffs/debuffs....and not very high damage (yes I know some powers/builds can do decent dmg but if you want damage (hero side) you get a Blaster or Scrapper (heck some Controller builds do decent damage)).

I think what they did with the villains (AT wise) is about right. You have the Brute which is your 'tank/scrapper' (yes I know maybe it wasn't designed to be the 'tanker' class but....), stalker for burst damage (I was surprised I liked playing my MA/EA stalker), Dominators are control and decent damage (depending on secondary), MMs are...well, they're "easy mode" and Corruptors are damage with some buffs/debuffs. I just think that at the beginning that Controllers should not have had the same powersets as secondaries as what Defenders got as primaries.

Tbh, I'd really like to see a more free-form power selection and do away with the 'trinity' of tank, damage-dealer, healer/support.

If I was designing from scratch, I'd have made inherents better and designed the classes around them from the start. Gauntlet and Vigilance suck and are un-inspired/bland, Containment was a good call, new Defiance is a joke compared to the other inherent powers (i can replace and out-perform Defiance with one medium Red insp and one Break Free, but need 3-4 of the best Reds to surpass Fury), and scrapper critical damage inherent is basically a much worse version of the stalker inherent. Scraps get 5-10% crit chance, but stalkers get 10-34% PLUS stealth crits guaranteed PLUS 50% crit chance on held/sleeping enemies (unless they got rid of that last part, I'll have to check again).

Personally, I'd revamp inherents for heroes to be on par with villains. I'd give blasters a damage debuff to their primary target (when using AoEs it would have to only apply the debuff to the target selected for the hit) that increases as the enemy's HP decrease, so instead of a crit chance like Scourge gets, it would be a half damage chance (or perhaps just a debuff) to the ENEMY's powers. This would be beneficial teaming or solo if you ask me, would help make them more survivable, and not give a non-armor class mez protection.

I'd give defenders the idea I suggested in an earlier post so that they can get a bit more damage, a bit more power in their primaries, but just in small fluid bursts.

I'd give Tankers an increasing chance, magnitude, or duration to their secondary effects of their attack powers (depending on the secondary effect of the power) as they take damage. That way a fire tank gets more powerful DoTs the longer he tanks; axe tanks would knock people over more often, mace tanks would stun more often, dual blades would get stronger combos, etc. This would help solo and teaming (unlike the solo-specific purpose of the current Gauntlet), plus it would make more sense for a power named Gauntlet to make them better at "running the gauntlet". The name implies they are going to be exposed to tons of punishment but still need to pull through.

I'd give Scrappers a better crit chance, or make their crit chance increase as their HP gets lower, since they are meant to be sturdier than blasters, so a better version of old defiance would be nice. Make the bonus start the moment they lose any health, rather than after half health like old defiance did, that way it doesn't encourage low health, just helps you in the event that the battle starts going downhill. Even half a percent per 1% HP lost. That would make for a total of 49% bonus crit chance if you were at 1 HP, but who could manage to linger there so long? Perhaps a tad smaller bonus, but something. Scrappers can handle the beating, but unlike blasters are intended to get at least a little bit of a beating, even on a team. Why not help them out a little there in addition to their 5% base?

Containment... I can't find anything wrong with it really. Guaranteed on single target moves, 50% chance on AoEs, and their damage is lame to begin with, so like brutes, it rewards them for doing their job by letting them actually get some kills in.

As for controllers having defender primaries as secondaries, I like it. That's like being mad that defenders have the same secondary as blaster primaries. Ever see a kinetics defender FS+nuke+catch a breath+transference? It will put a blaster aim+buildup+nuke to shame. Not to mention the blaster has no heals or recharge/speed buff. Granted I'm going on the basis that they are soloing and not buffed or helped by anyone but themselves in this scenario. The few controllers who can output good damage are outdone in damage by the defender equivalents, and especially by blasters. Fire/Kin can do some great damage, but it has no nuke, weaker moves, and fewer offensive powers in general, than a kin defender. I'll admit that controllers played well can replace Defenders, but my controller played well can replace a tanker, but it doesn't mean that there aren't other support classes that can't pull rank and kick ***. There are tanks that can scrap, scrappers that can tank, defenders that can control, controllers that can defend... this is normal to have a little overlap. It keeps the game dynamic so that not everyone is a carbon copy with a different color suit.

As for free-form power selection, that's what led to the first round of nerfing in Champions Online, from what I've heard. If you break out of the individual classes with generally planned roles, you are left with a few overpowered overused builds taking over the game. You'd have the Regen/Fire Blast tankers and SR/Empathy healers... it would be chaos. :-/

Personally, I've never felt the need for the pure Tank-n-spank team concept. Not every team needs a Main Tank + Healer + Damage Dealers to be successful. One of the strongest, fastest, most efficient teams I have ever been on was 3 Controllers, 1 Defender, and 4 Blasters. We had no tank, no healer, and needed no real plan. We would debuff/control to such an extent that the enemies were useless; there's no need to have a person to take the hits when the enemies aren't even attacking, lol. Villains see this even more. A team with a few buff or debuff corruptors or maybe MMs would give even non-tanking brutes tanker status, and would make everyone durable enough to practically just "group solo" the mission... take off killing and not even need to say a word or plan a fight, lol. I'm not saying planning is bad, just that a skilled team can just flow through missions like a tsunami with little effort. Even without the typical Tanker + Healer + DPS structure. It works, you just need a good balance of support. That's kinda where defenders come in anyway.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see defenders improved, but I feel controllers have a similar but less specific purpose. Defenders need a better inherent to pull them out from the pack to make them more acceptable to recruit to a team as well as more useful solo.

This made me LOL

You make defenders look good, giggles, sadly your eloquebt description of how good it can get, is pretty much limited to Kins, and perhaps Rads and Sonics. The other ALT choices, don't have it as nice. That is the main reason for a need for a change on the inherent. The tough part is the duality of the Defender powers, either I buff myself as I debuff you (Kin), or I just debuff something such as ACC, and lamely hit you. Balancing the two specialties is kinda tough.

Hugs

Stormy

Thanks, Kel.

That was my first thought when I saw the thread title as well.

Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.

I would hope for an improvement where the Defender could benefit in either a solo or group mode.

I like the concept of anti-domination, as the Defender does their thing, they build anti-domination. Once its build up, just like domination does for dominators, the defender at their choice can engage it. It should last as long as the dominator's domination lasts, and should for ""on and off"" purposes have the same time attributes. Once the defender has their anti-domination go off, they receive MAG 12 status resistance (same as a tank), they have a haste go off; and their buff/debuff effects are doubled in potency and duration is doubled as well. Don't really see a need to improve their healing or endurance; my experience when I play a defender has not been I am too low in endurance to heal, and having larger heals in general provide little benefit; after all if a blaster suddenly has 4 bosses turn on him, he is dead in one instant; having a larger heal is pointless.

Hugs

Stormy