Thank you. Useful information.
One part I am not certain about. Please correct me if my calculations are wrong. From the pure sonics attack chain you posted:
Screech, Howl, Shriek, Scream, Shriek, Shout
(From Mids, activation time)
1.5 + 2.33 + 1 + 1.67 + 1 + 2.67 = 10.17s
So in order for Screech to recharge in time we need its recharge down to (2.33 + 1 + 1.67 + 1 + 2.67) = 8.67s we need (20/8.67 -1) +1.30 recharge?
So even with 3 SO recharge in Screech this chain would only work if Hasten is up, or did you factor in AM since this is for rad/sonic?
If we cannot get Screech down to this recharge, what about
Screech, Howl, Shriek, Scream, Shriek, Shout
Howl, Shriek, Scream, Shriek, Shout
Screech again...
This would require Howl (Shout) to recharge in 6.34s (6s), which would only require only 2SO recharge to repeat indefinitely.
But in this case, it this really the best attack chain?
"Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty." -- Plato
Playing Gods (51106) - Heroic Lvl 5-20
What Rough Beast (255143) - Villainous Lvl 40-50
thanx for the response....
this attack chain is based off of an IO'd Cold/Sonic.... originally i meant to find my Rad/Sonic's data post but couldnt find it anywhere. I had limited testing with them this morning as the server went down early for a patch, and then i kind of obligated myself to assist a friend w/ getting AV's towards her Portal Jockey badge. I did specifically test to ensure that you can pull off a Shriek, Scream, Shriek, Shout combo w/ Hasten (w/ no set bonuses) to build off the 3x -resist stack. I havent played any Sonics since May so getting re-familiarized with the nuances.
Originally, worked out the times and crunched out the calculations, but you'll find in the end, there's some subtle differences between paper calculations and ingame application when powers are clicked and also animated. Those raw damage numbers are actual "In-game" numbers, but that was with Cold/Sonics w/ around 50% recharge w/ Hasten, i think.
I think i remember being able to maintain that attack string from beginning to end and beginning again. But not many critters really stand up that long to try to make it seamless anyhow, w/ AV's and GM's as an exception. Mostly, you have to keep a few different attack strings in mind, because mobs die, and not necessarily at the end of the attack string. You definitely dont want to wait for Screech to recharge in order to attack a new mob :P
In the end, the best way to find out is to "Do-It-Yourself" and flesh it out by trial and error. During that process, you always learn much more about your powers than what you read in textbooks....
maybe later on tonight i'll get a chance to run the Rad/Sonics
validated in-game, a non-io'd Sonic Attack Defender w/ Hasten as the only recharge buff can pull off the Screech, Howl, Shriek, Scream, Shriek, Shout - w/ Shout receiving the stacked -resist bonuses from the previous 5 powers..... 5x stack
its almost hit and miss cuz a fraction of a second off and you lose 1
Quote:
It's not. You should never be using howl in a single target attack chain.
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Originally Posted by Freem
But in this case, it this really the best attack chain?
|
Quote:
1) Why not, *if* this provides the best single target damage, and you have enough endurance?|
Originally Posted by Garent
It's not. You should never be using howl in a single target attack chain.
|
2) What is the best single target attack chain you propose?
In a teaming situation it would make sense to use Howl as often as possible because even though you are attacking one mob, you are debuffing even more mobs. When soloing, I use shriek, scream, shriek, shout. But if using Howl and screech provide better results I need a better reason not to use them than "you should never use AoEs in a single target attack chain".
NB I am not IOed out to have ridiculous recharge.
"Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty." -- Plato
Playing Gods (51106) - Heroic Lvl 5-20
What Rough Beast (255143) - Villainous Lvl 40-50
I have done some attack chain calculations. Please correct me if I made a mistake in the calculations.
Assumptions:
1) Stacking all on one enemy (consider a high con, or boss)
2) 0.5s "button press reaction time", because I don't expect a player to seamlessly chain attacks non-stop like a computer.
3) Time spent using primary powers not taken into account. This can make a huge difference in more click intensive primaries.
Chain 1: Shriek-0.5s-Scream-0.5s-Shriek-0.5s-Shout-0.5s (total time 8.34s)
A# stands for the attack number in the chain
Stacks on:
A1: A2, A3
A2: A3, A4
A3: A4, A5
A5: A1, A2, A3, A4, A5
Giving (in the form of damage scalar * chained-buff)
A1: 0.84 * 1.6
A2: 1.32 * 1.4
A3: 0.84 * 1.6
A4: 2.12 * 1.6
Total scalar damage = 7.928
scalar damage per second = 0.95 (2sf)
+Recharge needed:
Shriek: 12%, Scream: 0%, Shout: 76%
Suggested slotting would be to give Shriek 1 SO, and Shout 2 SOs or recharge reduction.
This would give Shout 66% recharge, so we would actually end up having to wait 0.85s before using Shout instead of 0.5s. This does not change the stacking, only increase the chain time slightly, giving scalar damage per second = 0.91 (2sf)
Conclusion:
If you can get +10% recharge from other sources, you get 0.95/s
Otherwise, you get 0.91/s.
Chain 1: Shriek-0.5s-Howl-0.5s-Scream-0.5s-Shriek-0.5s-Shout-0.5s (total time 11.17s)
Reason for this is I want Howl's debuff to stick on the higher damage attacks.
Again,
Stacks on:
A1: A2 (, A3 exactly at 5s)
A2: A3, A4, A5
A3: A4, A5
A4: A5, A1, A2, A3, A4
Repeating the process in the previous part (I'll skip the working)
Fast shooter (A1 stacks on A3): 0.87/s
Slow shooter (A1 does not stack on A3): 0.85/s
+Recharge needed:
Shriek: 0%
Scream: 0%
Shout: 18%
Howl: 13%
This attack chain needs only 1SO in Shout and Howl.
Conclusion:
Practically, I think the slow shooter is the case. So you will get 0.85/s by incorporating Howl into your attack chain. So, if you are fighting a single enemy, it lowers your DPS to use Howl.
The next question is: how many enemies does it take to make using Howl worthwhile?
Adding enemies that are not debuffed with -res but taking damage from Howl,
2 enemies total, attacking 1: 0.92/s
3 enemies total, attacking 1: 1.00/s
So, it is worthwhile to use Howl when faced with 3 or more enemies, about the same when fighting 2 enemies, and not worth it when fighting 1 enemy only.
It's also worthwhile to use the second attack chain when one does not have enough slots in one's attacks because the second attack chain only needs 1SO rech red in Shout and Howl.
For soloing, I'd suggest starting off with Howl in the attack chain, until the number of enemies drop to 2, then finishing off the last 2 mobs with single target attacks. If your mission settings are such that you do not get 3 or more mobs per spawn, then stick to the single target chain. When fighting single AVs and bosses, also stick to the single target attack chain.
Practically,
1) This tends to be limited by how much you can stack those debuffs on a single enemy before it is defeated. So this is more applicable for big targets. How much this applies to spawns of differing cons, needs further calculation and maybe even some coding.
2) In the other thread there are suggestions to use epic attacks such as electric fence or dominate. This would add an extra attack. The idea of electric fence is quite interesting because it does its damage in ticks, which I think means the damage dealt in each tick time differs depending on the debuff state of the subject?
"Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty." -- Plato
Playing Gods (51106) - Heroic Lvl 5-20
What Rough Beast (255143) - Villainous Lvl 40-50
thanx for taking interest and helping out with some of the information. Calcations are definitely good in figuring out DPS if peeps into that. You'll have to go ingame and actually apply and ensure that it does work according to calculations. Otherwise its no good for anyone.
one thing you covered i want to re-emphasize is having 1 SO Recharge in Shriek, to ensure the recovery is seamless after Scream. Even a fraction of a second later, you may lose the stacked Shriek -resist, or other power preceeding it.
Your Chain#1 is the conventional single target attack chain most players are familiar with.
- x4 stacked res
Your Chain#2 (stated #1 again) i think you meant Screech to start with :P And if you wanted to up your DPS for that specific chain, i think sticking 2 Recharge SO's in Shout as you stated, you can swap it out w/ Howl. So w/ Hasten, a Sonic Attack Defender will be able to do
SCREECH, SHOUT, SHRIEK, SCREAM, SHRIEK, SHOUT. The key will be Shout recovering fast enough to be seamless w/ the 2nd Shriek..... This will make a x5 -res stack for Shout. I havent tested this though, but should be feasible w/ 2 SO's, or maybe 2 IO recharges in Shout.
These chains and application will be bumped and updated in OP... thanx Freem
OK I must admit to being a little lost as to how to integrate this into my new build I am working on.
I have a rad/sonic. How would the above attach chains work in that setting? I was going to take the Electric epic pool which has Electric Fence to hold AVs at bay.
Can I make a good chain out of Shriek, Scream, Electric Fence, Amplify? Or do I need to take either Shout and or Screech?
Is this thread specifically restricted to only sonic attacks and/or SO's. I ask because a lot can and will change with IO's, in particular procs.
It also looks like it is only regarding "burst" chains rather than dps chains? that's fine, you just don't find many things that die in 4-5 hits in late game.
Quote:
You answered the question yourself. Howl is inferior single target damage and debuffing.|
Originally Posted by Freem
1) Why not, *if* this provides the best single target damage, and you have enough endurance?
|
raw data:
shriek- 30.4 dam, 1s cast, 5s debuff
scream- 47.7 dam, 1.67s cast, 7s debuff
shout- 76.6 dam, 2.67s cast, 10s debuff
screech- 7.23 dam (negligible), 1.5s cast, 12s debuff
howl- 29.3 dam, 2.33s cast, 8s debuff
The two important things to consider are damage per second (damage divided by casting time) and debuffing per second (debuff duration divided by casting time). Damage per second's merit is obvious. Debuffing per second serves as a representation of how effective the powers are at increasing the -res stack. Debuffing per second is actually a really misleading name for this unit, but it's better then calling it Debuff Duration Measured in Seconds Per Second. The results are as follows.
shriek- 30.4 dam/s; 5s debuff/s
scream- 28.6 dam/s; 4.2s debuff/s
shout- 28.7 dam/s; 3.7s debuff/s
screech- 8s debuff/s
howl- 12.6 dam/s; 3.4s debuff/s
As you can see, howl is the worst power in terms of both damage output and debuffing when it comes to single targets.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Freem
2) What is the best single target attack chain you propose?
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begin fight with screech
shriek, scream, shriek
use screech if it's up. If not, use shout. If shout isn't up, use howl. If howl isn't up, use aim (amplify).
If you're solo, the best single target attack chain would be shriek, scream, shriek, shout. This attack chain requires 175% recharge combined from shout's enhancement values and from buffs/set bonuses, which isn't nearly as difficult as it looks. 70% can come from hasten and 80-95% can easily come from enhancements.
A few important considerations if this thread is to go forward.
1. You should probably start accounting for Arcanatime. It makes a difference for normal sets, and a pretty big difference for sonic.
2. Scream self buffs 8 of its 10 ticks making scream a very good attack.
3. State the intention, burst, dps, solo, team
4. Clarify the build level and possibly why. As mentioned a lot changes with sonic when you look at procs and the specific purpose of the attacks. It's probably the most dynamic blast set available.
thanx for the input....
im not very well versed in setting up or making a "Build" thread, which really needs to happen. If someone would like to gather up the information, splay it out in a more readable and functional format, and email that to me, i'd appreciate it - contributor would be recognized
If you did look at the type of Attack Chains, it IS stated whether its pure Single Target or Howl integrated for Team Debuff. I feel you breezed through w/o actually reading it.
Garent is providing very good discussion and different pov here, which is needed.
Because of that, probably the true objective is uncovered - "Debuff" per second should be the priority over Damage per second. Though DPS itself presents a flat and general average benchmark, itself is misleading in true application. Yet again, number crunching/calculations doesnt fully translate through actual gameplay.
Maybe, the calculated averaged DPS might hold itself true through an hour's worth of play. Most likely it wont. It will hold itself true vs an EB, AV, or GM on a seamless attack string. Other than that, attacks will always be broken, interrupted by either you being attacked back, or you using support powers, or the mob itself defeated.
The best application is through experience, pick the attack string suitable for the situation and mob. My attack chains are designed to load up w/ one big burst attack at the end , to maximize the debuff per second on one powerful strike, so take that into consideration when applying it.
Choosing between Damage per Second or "Debuff" per second is wholly up to the player. Why ive leaned to "Debuff" attack strings because your teams severely benefits from small windows of x4 and x5 -resist debuffed tough mob. MOST likely they will be doing more damage than you will, so this is in your best interest. If you're a soloist, you may lean towards DPS....
Referring to another question, i want all gathered information based off of an SO slotted Sonic Attack Defender. The reason behind this is to have all the information tangible to the average player. Its no fun coming across all this stuff but not able to do it right off the bat or spending a fortune to do something..... all whats needed is Hasten and a recharge enhancement or two in your power.....
Procs was mentioned somewhere in another thread too... its definitely an awsome option. The only one available would be the purple Apocalypse: Chance for Negative damage, for your single attacks. Luckily, its the most affordable out of the purple set, but still hecka expensive proposition for the average to low player, think 50-70M right now? But if you can, and that thing proc's, especially towards the end of a "Burst string"/"DebuffPS string", its gonna do some massive damage itself....
Another route, if you're going to be a Cone Sonic, is to Proc up HOWL w/ Posi's Blast: Chance for Energy damage, and SHOCKWAVE w/Posi's Blast: Chance for Energy damage and Explosive Strike: Chance for Smashing damage. Could also slot in Force Feedback's Chance for Recharge for small hits of recharge.
Lots of responses overnight. My first calculation was just a kind of demonstration. I'm hoping to do the calculations properly (when I have time).
I did some testing on screech-howl-scream-shriek-shout in game. I find that with only rech red SO, I could not get it to recharge in time, but even with one siphon speed (+20%), everything ran smoothly.
The other issue was chain breaking, which was when your target dies so the debuff doesn't carry on. This is actually a big issue...so I suspect actual DPS over a mission time will depend a lot of actual play situation.
PHIRE:
The purpose of doing these calculations is do provide a kind of "best case" scenario. It's mostly a for fun thing...because sonics DPS is interesting in that it is not a straightforward addding up. 
Practically, I only consider there to be a meaningful difference in DPS if there is a difference in the first significant figure anyway. And I only consider the calculations to be meaningful against what it's calculated for (one big target).
Garent:
The idea of debuff per second is interesting. The choice of debuff per second when teamed a good way on selecting the attack chain. However this means we would have to multiple the debuff of Howl by the number of targets it hits, in a team situation. I.e. Howl will become top priority as long as it hits 4 or more targets. I think this pretty much settles debuffing attacks in a team situation.
So using the debuff order, I think it would be more along the line of
1) Howl on the entire mob
2) Screech on the boss
3) As follows in your description, except always use Howl when it is up, until there you are unable to catch more than 3 mobs in your cone.
Frosticus: you raise very good points on what to take into account.
1) I will switch to Arcanatime.
2) I will change calculations on scream
3) Intention:
The main intention is to see what to do to gain the highest DPS solo. But to do that I want to settle the question of an optimal single target attack chain first.
=>a) Pure sonics chain against single target for a character with no recharge except SOs.
=>b) Pure sonics chain against single target with SO recharge and some recharge buff
=>c) Sonics + epic attack chain against single target, with high recharge
=>d) Consideration of chain breaking
It shouldn't be hard to include multi-target considerations if we have the single target down. It's just a matter of adding damage from Howl on undebuffed targets linearly.
"Honesty is for the most part less profitable than dishonesty." -- Plato
Playing Gods (51106) - Heroic Lvl 5-20
What Rough Beast (255143) - Villainous Lvl 40-50
Best ST chain post 41 (with elec mastery) is Shriek - Scream - Shriek - Electric Fence
Quote:
nah I'm reading it, but the only people that care enough to analyze at this level are probably playing the game beyond SO's...|
Originally Posted by PHlRE
If you did look at the type of Attack Chains, it IS stated whether its pure Single Target or Howl integrated for Team Debuff. I feel you breezed through w/o actually reading it.
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Quote:
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Garent is providing very good discussion and different pov here, which is needed. Because of that, probably the true objective is uncovered - "Debuff" per second should be the priority over Damage per second. Though DPS itself presents a flat and general average benchmark, itself is misleading in true application. Yet again, number crunching/calculations doesnt fully translate through actual gameplay. |
Quote:
|
Maybe, the calculated averaged DPS might hold itself true through an hour's worth of play. Most likely it wont. It will hold itself true vs an EB, AV, or GM on a seamless attack string. Other than that, attacks will always be broken, interrupted by either you being attacked back, or you using support powers, or the mob itself defeated. The best application is through experience, pick the attack string suitable for the situation and mob. My attack chains are designed to load up w/ one big burst attack at the end , to maximize the debuff per second on one powerful strike, so take that into consideration when applying it. |
Quote:
| Referring to another question, i want all gathered information based off of an SO slotted Sonic Attack Defender. The reason behind this is to have all the information tangible to the average player. Its no fun coming across all this stuff but not able to do it right off the bat or spending a fortune to do something..... all whats needed is Hasten and a recharge enhancement or two in your power..... |
Additionally from what I've seen you guys aren't using accurate numbers. Arcanaville put a lot of work into discovering Arcanatime. It makes a large difference in calculations. I've seen several different people perpetuating the inaccurate info in this thread. I'm not picking on Freem for implementing 0.5 sec gaps between each attack, but the system allows for attack queing so it is entirely unnecessary.
ehhh, what is Arcanatime btw?
Keep the wealth of information coming - any related discussion is appreciated and will benefit all....
The Screech + Howl + Shriek + Scream + Shriek + Shout posted IS doable w/ a SO-slotted character w/ Hasten and 1 recharge in Shriek. I already tested that ingame. One of the objectives of posting certain chains is the usability by the "average" non-IO'd character.
With that, im not really worried who decides to look at this post or not. Im getting this information out there for those who are looking for this information. This may be the n00bs looking to up their damage or maybe veteran players who are looking for the same thing. Its for them to decide, not me - so why care?
I meant this to be a stand alone thread instead of this same topic getting buried under a different thread title when eventually mentioned or complained about.....
Quote:
I think that howl is so important in a team situation that it shouldn't be used in an attack chain. It should instead be used every time it's up as long as a more pressing primary power isn't needed. Though I'm of the opinion that things happen so quickly on large teams that it's not possible to get any sort of chain going except on bosses near the end of a fight.|
Originally Posted by Freem
However this means we would have to multiple the debuff of Howl by the number of targets it hits, in a team situation. I.e. Howl will become top priority as long as it hits 4 or more targets. I think this pretty much settles debuffing attacks in a team situation.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by silverado
Best ST chain post 41 (with elec mastery) is Shriek - Scream - Shriek - Electric Fence
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by frosticus
You want debuff duration per cycle time, that will indicate how well the power can layer the -res.
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Garent and I did a lot of work on this when he was trying (and succeeding) to solo AVs with his Storm/Sonic Defender a year or two ago. This was before the discovery of ArcanaTime so they're a bit suspect, but the basic gist of it was that, with a perma-Hasten build, the strongest attack chain was Screech > Shout > Scream > Shriek, mostly because your stacked -Res debuffs would hit 5 applications and with momentary spikes of 6. -120% Res is nothing to sneeze at.
I've been working on a new tool to calculate attack chains that includes Procs, and I could try and throw in -Res debuffs, but those are a lot more difficult, mostly because of trying to figure out the timing of when damage is applied (dependent on random factors like projectile travel).
Global @Diellan - 5M2M
Mids' Hero/Villain Designer Lead
Virtue Server
Redside: Lorenzo Mondavi
Blueside: Alex Rabinovich
Got a Mids suggestion? Want to report a Mids bug?
Quote:
http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Arcanatime|
Originally Posted by PHlRE
ehhh, what is Arcanatime btw?
|
Some short hand data
Code:
Power Dmg Anim Anim(AT) Rech DPA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Screech 7.240 1.5 1.716 20 4.219 Shriek 30.39 1 1.188 3 25.59 Scream 47.70 1.67 1.848 6 25.81 Howl 29.28 2.33 2.508 10 11.67 Shockwave 23.14 2.17 2.376 8 9.739 Shout 76.64 2.67 2.904 11 26.39
Global @Diellan - 5M2M
Mids' Hero/Villain Designer Lead
Virtue Server
Redside: Lorenzo Mondavi
Blueside: Alex Rabinovich
Got a Mids suggestion? Want to report a Mids bug?
Quote:
And yet the chain Silverado listed produces identical dps to shriek>scream>shriek>shout except offers more range, it less subject to dps loss due to missing, reaches peak dps sooner and inflicts a valuable status effect. Also it doesn't root/lock you out of your powerset for 2.904 seconds on a single power meaning if you need to heal/move/whatever, you can.|
Originally Posted by Garent
Electric fence is equivalent to a tier 1 blast in terms of damage and recharge, except with a longer animation time, higher endurance cost, and its damage is dealt over time. That means power bolt is better than electric fence. In fact, it barely has a higher DPA than shriek and doesn't have a resistance debuff. Shout is clearly better.
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Quote:
| I used debuff duration over animation time. Cycle time at higher levels only affects how often a power can be used in an attack chain, not how useful it is in the chain. |
Sonic at 0, 100, and 200% recharge is different in each case, but your way would never indicate that.
Quote:
Assuming you had the insane recharge necessary to repeat this chain, which would be even more difficult on a storm:|
Originally Posted by Diellan_
Garent and I did a lot of work on this when he was trying (and succeeding) to solo AVs with his Storm/Sonic Defender a year or two ago. This was before the discovery of ArcanaTime so they're a bit suspect, but the basic gist of it was that, with a perma-Hasten build, the strongest attack chain was Screech > Shout > Scream > Shriek, mostly because your stacked -Res debuffs would hit 5 applications and with momentary spikes of 6. -120% Res is nothing to sneeze at.
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+240% in screech
It would produce: (95% dam buff, only sonic's -res)
no proc / with apoc in scream
57 dps / 63.6 dps (first chain)
85.7 dps / 95.95 dps (second chain, peak -res)
That doesn't even come close to the 118 dps that both
Shriek>Scream>Shriek>Efence
and
Shriek>Scream>Shriek>Shout
produce.
Both of them do it with a heck of a lot less necessary recharge too. Not to be rude, but a chain of screech>shout>scream>shriek is one of the lowest damage ones I've personally ran the numbers on.
*What you guys were experiencing (I'm guessing based on my own storm/sonic) is that attaining high -res with LS and nado is actually more important than a high dps sonic chain. That is a whole different case that presents itself for storms damage powers because that is more akin to forcemultiplying outside damage sources than a high sonic dps chain.
However, since the nerf to LS it is no longer the primary source of damage in an AV encounter (assuming you specced LS to be awesome back then), so I'm confident once again that the sonic chain producing high dps is the main concern even for a storm/sonic now.
Edit: for the table you produced it is also missing the fact that scream self buffs 8 of its 10 ticks giving it a much more attractive DPA. Most people overlook it when talking about sonic, but it really does make quite a difference.
I created a graph. The following are the (incorrect) assumptions I made that will skew the results, but that I had to do for lack of data and for my own sanity.
1. scream's first tick hits 1/5 of the way through its animation and the final tick hits at the end
2. the damage/effects for all other powers are assumed to hit at the end of their animation.
In reality, the distance from the enemy as well as the speed of your projectiles (shout is rather slow, electric fence has no projectile) can have a large impact on your actual numbers.
I used unenhanced damage values and did not use procs. 50 pixels = 1 second.
Table here
The results are:
shriek-scream-shriek-fence = 41.19 DPS
shriek-scream-shriek-shout = 43.74 DPS
I'll try the screech-shout-scream-shriek chain sometime later.
Looks accurate enough prior to sticking procs in the chains.
*UPDATED* 10/22/09
1) Contrary to a "few" who thinks so - the effect of the Sonic Blast -Resists DO stack, its just for limited times, depending on the tier of the power....
2) Defender's Sonic Attack -Resist is @ 20%, Corruptor @ 15%, Blaster @ 13%
3) Solo artists will want to use Damage per Second attack strings
4) Team debuffers will want to use Debuff per Second attack strings
***Powers w/ -Resist***
SHRIEK - single, minor smash/nrg damage, -20% resist for 5 secs, recharge in 3 secs
SCREAM - single, moderate smash/nrg dot damage, -20% resist for 7 secs, rech in 6 secs
HOWL - cone, minor smash/nrg damage, -20% resist for 8 secs, recharge in 10 secs
SHOUT - single, high smash/nrg damage, -20% resist for 10 seconds, recharge in 10 secs
SCREECH - single, minor smash/nrg damage, -20% resist for 12 secs, recharge in 20 secs
(based off of basic SO build w/ Hasten, 1 Recharge SO in Shriek, no other recharge bonuses)
x3 -res Attack Chain (the conventional string)
SHRIEK + SCREAM + SHRIEK + SHOUT
x4 -res Attack Chain
SCREECH + SHRIEK + SCREAM + SHRIEK + SHOUT
Single target x5 -res Attack Chain
(Shout will need high recharge, this wont be a fully seamless attack string though)
SCREECH + SHOUT + SHRIEK + SCREAM + SHRIEK + SHOUT
Alternates
SCREECH + SHOUT + SHRIEK + SCREAM + SHRIEK + TOTAL FOCUS
SCREECH + SHOUT + SHRIEK + SCREAM + SHRIEK + ELECTRIC FENCE
***AMPLIFY INTEGRATION***
SCREECH + AMPLIFY + SHRIEK + SCREAM + SHRIEK + SHOUT
(this was specifically tested ingame and performable by the above build)
SCREECH + AMPLIFY + SHOUT + SHRIEK + SCREAM + SHRIEK + TOTAL FOCUS
SCREECH + AMPLIFY + SHOUT + SHRIEK + SCREAM + SHRIEK + ELECTRIC FENCE
(you may look to rotate between the x5 and x3 attack strings, allowing Screech and Shout to recover)
***Chains w/ Howl***
(for multi-mob debuffage for teammates, targeting boss)
x4 -res attack chain
HOWL + SHRIEK + SCREAM +SHRIEK + SHOUT
x5 -res attack chain
SCREECH + HOWL + SHRIEK + SCREAM + SHRIEK + SHOUT
***AMPLIFY INTEGRATION***
SCREECH + AMPLIFY + HOWL + SHRIEK + SCREAM + SHRIEK +SHOUT
(you may look to rotate between the x5 and x4 attack strings, allowing Screech to recover)
These long chains will require seamless activation - the game allows you to keep another power cued while another one
is firing/activating through its animation. Its not really tough at all...
***Procs was mentioned somewhere in another thread too... its definitely an awsome option. The only one available would be the purple Apocalypse: Chance for Negative damage,
for your single attacks. Luckily, its the most affordable out of the purple set, but still hecka expensive proposition for the average to low player, think 50-70M right
now? But if you can, and that thing proc's, especially towards the end of a "Burst string"/"DebuffPS string", its gonna do some massive damage itself....
Another route, if you're going to be a Cone Sonic, is to Proc up HOWL w/ Posi's Blast: Chance for Energy damage, and SHOCKWAVE w/Posi's Blast: Chance for Energy damage
and Explosive Strike: Chance for Smashing damage. Could also slot in Force Feedback's Chance for Recharge for small hits of recharge.
more research will be done for better Howl frequency
more research will be done for Sonic cone attack strings
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***CALCULATIONS & INGAME DATA GATHERING***
Ingame data, using Cold/Sonic/Dark IO build
**SHOUT**
build's baseline = 60.20 smash / 60.20 energy = 120.40
x1 = 72.24/72.24 = 144.48
(Shout buffed by Shriek)
x2 = 84.28/84.28 = 164.56
(Shout buffed by Scream + Shriek)
x3 = 96.33/96.33 = 192.66
(Shout buffed by Shriek + Scream + Shriek)
x4 = 115.59/115.59 = 231.18
(Shout buffed by Howl + Shriek + Scream + Shriek)
x5 = 137.72/137.72 = 275.42
(Shout buffed by Screech + Howl + Shriek + Scream + Shriek)
x5 = 151.06/151.06 = 302.12
(Shout buffed by Screech + Aim + Howl + Shriek + Scream + Shriek)
If you have PBU or Soul Drain, Start that combo w/ them first.....
My solo max Shout damage
+12% set bonus damage
+18.75% Assault damage bonus
SLEET + SOULDRAIN(1 target) + HEATLOSS + SCREECH + AIM + HOWL + SHRIEK + SCREAM + SHRIEK + SHOUT
249.58/249.58 = 499.16 damage
DUO build w/ same Assault & set bonus buff
461.14/461.14 = 922.28 damage PER defender
FREEM
1) Stacking all on one enemy (consider a high con, or boss)
2) 0.5s "button press reaction time", because I don't expect a player to seamlessly chain attacks non-stop like a computer.
3) Time spent using primary powers not taken into account. This can make a huge difference in more click intensive primaries.
Chain 1: Shriek-0.5s-Scream-0.5s-Shriek-0.5s-Shout-0.5s (total time 8.34s)
A# stands for the attack number in the chain
Stacks on:
A1: A2, A3
A2: A3, A4
A3: A4, A5
A5: A1, A2, A3, A4, A5
Giving (in the form of damage scalar * chained-buff)
A1: 0.84 * 1.6
A2: 1.32 * 1.4
A3: 0.84 * 1.6
A4: 2.12 * 1.6
Total scalar damage = 7.928
scalar damage per second = 0.95 (2sf)
+Recharge needed:
Shriek: 12%, Scream: 0%, Shout: 76%
Suggested slotting would be to give Shriek 1 SO, and Shout 2 SOs or recharge reduction.
This would give Shout 66% recharge, so we would actually end up having to wait 0.85s before using Shout instead of 0.5s. This does not change the stacking, only increase the chain time slightly, giving scalar damage per second = 0.91 (2sf)
Conclusion:
If you can get +10% recharge from other sources, you get 0.95/s
Otherwise, you get 0.91/s.
Chain 2: Screech-0.5s-Howl-0.5s-Scream-0.5s-Shriek-0.5s-Shout-0.5s (total time 11.17s)
Reason for this is I want Howl's debuff to stick on the higher damage attacks.
Again,
Stacks on:
A1: A2 (, A3 exactly at 5s)
A2: A3, A4, A5
A3: A4, A5
A4: A5, A1, A2, A3, A4
Repeating the process in the previous part (I'll skip the working)
Fast shooter (A1 stacks on A3): 0.87/s
Slow shooter (A1 does not stack on A3): 0.85/s
+Recharge needed:
Shriek: 0%
Scream: 0%
Shout: 18%
Howl: 13%
This attack chain needs only 1SO in Shout and Howl.
Conclusion:
Practically, I think the slow shooter is the case. So you will get 0.85/s by incorporating Howl into your attack chain. So, if you are fighting a single enemy, it lowers your DPS to use Howl.
The next question is: how many enemies does it take to make using Howl worthwhile?
Adding enemies that are not debuffed with -res but taking damage from Howl,
2 enemies total, attacking 1: 0.92/s
3 enemies total, attacking 1: 1.00/s
So, it is worthwhile to use Howl when faced with 3 or more enemies, about the same when fighting 2 enemies, and not worth it when fighting 1 enemy only.
DIELLAN
correction on Freem's chain 1st or 2nd set debuffed or not...
think you're calculating the -Res and the procs and such incorrectly, in that you're looking at the beginning instance of a chain and not the second instance (which is the maintainable values of -Res). For example, in Chain 1 (Shout), Garent listed the 4 attacks twice, where the first set shows what happens when you first start attacking, and the second set shows what you'll be seeing from then on. For our purposes, the second set is the only one that matters. Secondly, what we care about is how many buffs there are at the end of the Shriek's animation.
In fact, you can just look at the notation Garent used and look there to see what the -Res multiplier is for each Shriek.
Chain 1:
Shriek has 1.8 and 1.6 for the first and second hit, respectively, so the damage from Apo is: 0.33*107.1*1.8 + 0.33*107.1*1.6 = 120.1662
Additional dps is 120.1662/7.128 = 16.8583
Total dps = 43.74+16.8583 = 60.5983
Chain 2:
Shriek has 1.4 both times, so the damage from Apo is: 0.33*107.1*1.4 + 0.33*107.1*1.4 = 98.9604
I'm going to assume that Trap of the Hunter lands on Electric Fence's first tic (somebody can correct me if I'm wrong), at which case it has a 1.6 multiplier, so 0.2*71.75*1.6=22.96
Combined added damage = 121.9204
Additional dps is 121.9204/5.544 = 21.99
Total dps = 41.19 + 21.99 = 63.18
Chain 2 still edges out ahead of Chain 1, but we need to remember that this doesn't count damage enhancements. If we did that with 95% damage in all attacks, we'd get:
Chain 1: 43.74*1.95 + 16.8583 (proc) = 102.1513
Chain 2: 41.19*1.95 + 21.99 (proc) = 102.3105
Wow. Hilariously close. Close enough that I would consider them identical in this case (due to round off error and timing of -Res error). Note that since Chain 1 benefits more from damage buffs than Chain 2, if you have any method of +Damage beyond this, then Chain 1 will pull ahead.
As for chain 3, I'll wait until Garent works up a nice graph for that. It makes it so much easier.
To sum up:
Chain 1 Advantages:
Benefits more from +Dmg (Assault, Fulcrum Shift, etc)
Benefits more from other sources of damage (team, pets) due to higher -Res
Chain 2 Advantages:
Shorter chain - ramps up faster
All fast attacks - less rooting, more freedom
Damage balanced better among powers - no annoying misses with key powers
Immobilize (stacks up to mag 12 without slottage)
Requires very little Recharge investment
Arcana Time codes:
Some short hand data
Code:
Power-Dmg-Anim-Anim(AT)-Rech-DPA
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Screech-7.240-1.5-1.716-20-04.219
Shriek-30.39-1.0-1.188-3-25.59
Scream-47.70-1.67-1.848-6-25.81
Howl-29.28-2.33-2.508-10-11.67
Shockwave-23.14-2.17-2.376-8-09.739
Shout-76.64-2.67-2.904-11-26.39
(sorry, couldnt seem to repaste/convert the original table right~PHIRE)
GARENT
chain comparison
Table here
The results are:
shriek-scream-shriek-fence = 41.19 DPS
shriek-scream-shriek-shout = 43.74 DPS