Well, I cannot help you on AV killing ideas, but I can offer my 2 cents on the Leadership versus Fighting pool.
The leadership toggles are more expensive to run than Tough/Weave .39/s versus .32/sec so stacking these adds up IMO. Weave is 5% defense versus 3.5% for maneuvers and you can throw Steadfast in Tough as well for nearly 11% enhanced defense and 22% s/l resist just running Tough/Weave.
As far as build considerations, going Fighting you end up with a throw-away pick (Boxing) and thats annoying for most people, but stacking Tough+Epic resist offers nearly capped s/l resist and with one Inspy it is capped. Thats pretty nice.
With enhanced Epic resist you would receive 58%(approx) incoming dmg (s/l), add in Tough and that drops to 35% incoming s/l. Thats more than a 50% improvement.
My vote is Fighting over Leadership everytime.
I only like leadership on a dedicated team that stacks it or.... if someone brought thirst for Vengeance along muah-huah-huah
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
11% defense /20% resist to all is a pretty good start with only 2 powers in my opinion.
Whats defender values for maneuvers?
6 Slotted Aim with guassions is 2.5%.
Id imagine with CJ im hitting near 20% defense to all. I hear 25% def is where players notice the payoff of this kinda thinkin.
Slot the rest of the way for recharge for perma AM+hasten.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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Defender manuevers is base 5%.
I'd suggest -not- going electric for the immobilize. You can't afford the damage output drop from using electric fence. Power build up will help more.
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Nonsense
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Originally Posted by Garent
I'd suggest -not- going electric for the immobilize. You can't afford the damage output drop from using electric fence. Power build up will help more.
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No its not. Its quite smart. PBU can enhance your AM I believe, which makes a difference.
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I don't think this is very good advice.|
Originally Posted by Garent
Defender manuevers is base 5%.
I'd suggest -not- going electric for the immobilize. You can't afford the damage output drop from using electric fence. Power build up will help more. |
shriek>scream>shriek>efense is one of the most damaging chains a sonic can produce once you factor in procs.
The immob is very nice vs AV's to prevent them from running around and/or attempting to use melee attacks which means you can just focus on ranged def. It has decent enough range that your chain keeps you out of most cone attacks they might cast, which you usually have low def too.
I dont know about AV fighting as much, but against Bosses having Hover or an Immob is a great way to leverage a High +def to ranged. And Ranged defense is far easier to cap IMO.
Also on Maneuvers, I will have to check but I dont recall the value being 5% for defenders.
I was thinking it was 3.75%, but I could be in error. Mids shows it only as 3.5%
Weave is 5% though, on that I am pretty certain.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
Forgot to add:
Pbu adds very little damage over time, which is what you are looking for when trying to take down meat sacks. It is an awesome power for bosses and lower though, you can produce some pretty crazy burst damage.
Efense has dpa on par with other sonic attacks, but you of course don't get -res from it. Sticking in a trap of hunter proc helps offset that loss though.
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You're right, it's 3.5%. I got mixed up and was thinking of the numbers for steamy mist/shadowfall.|
Originally Posted by Biospark
Also on Maneuvers, I will have to check but I dont recall the value being 5% for defenders.
I was thinking it was 3.75%, but I could be in error. Mids shows it only as 3.5% Weave is 5% though, on that I am pretty certain. |
I'm sticking to my guns on electric fence being a bad idea though. You can use movement to keep out of melee very easily.
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I think the payoff starts around 15% but that depends on your difficulty settings.|
Originally Posted by JamMasterJMS
11% defense /20% resist to all is a pretty good start with only 2 powers in my opinion.
Whats defender values for maneuvers? 6 Slotted Aim with guassions is 2.5%. Id imagine with CJ im hitting near 20% defense to all. I hear 25% def is where players notice the payoff of this kinda thinkin. Slot the rest of the way for recharge for perma AM+hasten. |
Currently my Solo Empath build is at 25% defense to ranged and around 16-19% to other types with the highest being Psi at 19%. My S/L is 65% and I also have Energy at 23% or so.
Energy defense is actually over 20% now that I think about it.
Besides IO set bonuses; I took CJ, Tough/Weave and Charged Armor to get this amount of defense.
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
You had me until the soloing AVs part.
I'm currently working on a Rad/Sonic Defender that has 48% ranged defense. On paper it seems nice, but I'm not sure how it will end up actually playing out. He's made mostly for toggle herding.
In all my time here in CoH I've yet to see this done by a defender. Controller; yes. Scrapper; yes. Blaster; maybe. I'd go as far as to say it's impossible, but I wish you all the luck in the world and hope you succeed. And if you do, please brag and post pics for all of us to enjoy!
Who do I have to *&^% around here to get more Targeted AoE recipes added?
Arc Name: Tsoo In Love
Arc ID: 413575
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People already have.
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Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
And if you do, please brag and post pics for all of us to enjoy!
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Defs are the second best big game hunter blueside.|
Originally Posted by EnigmaBlack
You had me until the soloing AVs part.
I'm currently working on a Rad/Sonic Defender that has 48% ranged defense. On paper it seems nice, but I'm not sure how it will end up actually playing out. He's made mostly for toggle herding. In all my time here in CoH I've yet to see this done by a defender. Controller; yes. Scrapper; yes. Blaster; maybe. I'd go as far as to say it's impossible, but I wish you all the luck in the world and hope you succeed. And if you do, please brag and post pics for all of us to enjoy! |
Actually now that they have traps they might be the best.
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What do you fill your chain with if you don't take e fence? If shout then that massively long cast time plus short range is more than enough time for things to walk over and punch your face in.|
Originally Posted by Garent
I'm sticking to my guns on electric fence being a bad idea though. You can use movement to keep out of melee very easily.
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If you just run shriek>scream they you have some fair sized gaps.
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Not in my experience.|
Originally Posted by Frosticus
What do you fill your chain with if you don't take e fence? If shout then that massively long cast time plus short range is more than enough time for things to walk over and punch your face in.
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If not shout, you could alternatively use that gap as an opportunity to use a rad power or screech.
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If you said a cold/sonic I'd agree such gaps are good to fill with primary powers, but the only clicks in rad are LR, which is a once every 27 second thing, AM, once every 2 min, and the heal. If you need to spam your heal that much then something is wrong.|
Originally Posted by Garent
Not in my experience.
If not shout, you could alternatively use that gap as an opportunity to use a rad power or screech. |
Screech as mentioned in the other sonic thread right now is used on teams vs hard targets for more forcemultiplication. but solo the damage lost during the cast is not made up for by the extra -res debuff.
The OP is looking to specifically kill AV's and GM's. The advice you are offering seems more suited to general pve where a lower degree of efficiency is passable.
For AV's if you have high ranged def you want them only using ranged attacks, which means you want to be outside of 50ft so they don't try to use cones and rip you apart. That makes the use of shout dubious from the onset and is a large part of why e fence is prefered. Not only is it good damage, but the immob locks them in spot so they fight on your terms. the 50ft range of e fence is enough where most cones/aoes won't be cast.
Though more range like a build with enough rech to use dominate combined with hovering is even better to eliminate attacks you don't defend against as well as scaling up to GM's better.
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Except that acid mortar causes GM´s to run. You can immob AV´s but you got nothing to stop gm´s thanks to their high immob protection and resitance on top of that.
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Originally Posted by Frosticus
Defs are the second best big game hunter blueside.
Actually now that they have traps they might be the best. |
Hey great stuff so far.
I am going to go with the Fighting Pool then.
Should I skip shout all together and save the slot for something else in an Epic maybe?
The big question is for me now is Domination vs Electric? Efence is nice for holding AVs at bay but if it is not going to work then what does Domination have to offer and how is it used? I have to admit to zero clues here.
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The point I was tryin to make was... In the OP, tough/weave was used to get 11/20 res/def. I was tryin to add with takin 3 powers (aim, maneuv., cj) any defender could get to approx 20% def without really tryin. |
Originally Posted by Biospark
I think the payoff starts around 15% but that depends on your difficulty settings.
Currently my Solo Empath build is at 25% defense to ranged and around 16-19% to other types with the highest being Psi at 19%. My S/L is 65% and I also have Energy at 23% or so. Energy defense is actually over 20% now that I think about it. Besides IO set bonuses; I took CJ, Tough/Weave and Charged Armor to get this amount of defense. |
However YOU got to your defense totals is awesome.
Empathy + any secondary: and you have a kick *** heal, IH lvl's regen requently, stamina+. With the 5 original powers (tough/weave, cj, aim etc), for a good solid base to build any kinda toon you want on. Without sacrificing anything in the way of build compromises. Unless its something RP.
Defenders rock!
Now if we could only get their damage increased like in that other thread running right now.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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No attacks in the epics will be better than a /sonic attack. |
Originally Posted by DarkInvado
Hey great stuff so far.
I am going to go with the Fighting Pool then. Should I skip shout all together and save the slot for something else in an Epic maybe? The big question is for me now is Domination vs Electric? Efence is nice for holding AVs at bay but if it is not going to work then what does Domination have to offer and how is it used? I have to admit to zero clues here. |
The only power I wouldnt take outta my secondary would be the cone knockback.
And maybe my nuke if im AV solo'n.
You will not hold an AV with dominate. At least as a defender.
Id dip into psi epics to get MoB so my toggles wont drop and take the resist shield on the way.
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Originally Posted by Shadow Ravenwolf
My favorite combo is Faceplant/DebtCap with the TeamWipe Ancillary
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Originally Posted by Dispari
Yeah, I like Blasters too.
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Originally Posted by JamMasterJMS
No attacks in the epics will be better than a /sonic attack.
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I agree with this statement. I have Thunderstrike on my solo build and to be honest, when I dont use it, I dont miss it. The animation time is just Loooooonnnnng !
To the OP, JamMaster is correct /*any defender blast offers more than the epic attacks... sadly
BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF
EFence and Dominate are BOTH just as good as any /sonic attack. They have decent recharge times, quick casting times, and do decent damage. Dam/Mez Hami-O's are fairly cheap, and the hold sets are fairly common, so slotting them isn't difficult. Both are fairly effective ways to get things to stay put.
You WILL be able to solo AV's and GM's, just don't expect to do it QUICKLY. With Rad Infection added on, any defense becomes a significant number.
If you can manage end well enough to get to the point where you can run Choking Cloud and take Dominate, if you slot a Lockdown +2 Mag in CC and stack up the hold duration as well as damage in dominate, you can manage to get MASSIVE magnitudes of hold on a single target; you could theoretically keep an AV perma-held so long as the PToD aren't flipped on.
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shriek dpa = 27.19|
Originally Posted by JamMasterJMS
No attacks in the epics will be better than a /sonic attack.
The only power I wouldnt take outta my secondary would be the cone knockback. And maybe my nuke if im AV solo'n. You will not hold an AV with dominate. At least as a defender. Id dip into psi epics to get MoB so my toggles wont drop and take the resist shield on the way. |
shout dpa = 26.37
efence dpa= 27.35
dom dpa = 27.35
*scream dpa - scream self buffs with the -res so I don't list it (2 ticks unbuffed, 8 ticks buffed), but it ends up being the best dpa attack by a small margin.
When you factor in procs the epic attacks are indeed as good or better choice than shout from a damage standpoint even with the extra -res. When you factor in secondary effects efence and dominate* are both better vs AV's
Just to clarify there is no epic choice that will prevent a defender from getting mezzed and having their offensive toggles drop.
*Under high recharge (which is the only way you should take dominate) you'll always have it double stacked so AV's will be mezzed for the entire time the PToD are down.
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I know traps is new to blueside, but surely redside players can't be that much smarter can they?|
Originally Posted by TRTerror
Except that acid mortar causes GM´s to run. You can immob AV´s but you got nothing to stop gm´s thanks to their high immob protection and resitance on top of that.
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It's nothing powerpool taunt can't easily solve. Some seem more affected by the flee factor of mortar too.
Hey all,
I am in the process of leveling up a new defender, just my second one, to 50. The sole purpose of this toon is to solo AVs and GMs. With 9 or 10 50s under my belt soloing some of the harder AVs and even one GM has eluded me. I do have 2-3 toons capable of soloing the random AV but a GM solo would be the next step. I chose a rad/sonic (I have two rads and they were both very capable) and I thought the sonic, with its stacking -damage resistance, would be a great fit. I have her up to level 44 now and at 47 I will use my 2nd build to create what I hope is a GM killer.
I have looked for a posted build, with set slotting, designed with a similar purpose but I have been unable to locate one. I know I am NOT the only person to have done this and I would like to avoid the predictable - design, test, fail, respec, test, fail, respec... process if possible.
Right now I think my two biggest design questions are:
1) What are the relative merits between; Leadership- Maneuvers and Assault for the damage buff and Fighting- Boxing, Tough, Weave for the damage resistance. That is assuming Weave and Maneuvers are similar in effect.
and
2)Which Epic Secondary to take, So far I have settled on Electric for the Immobilize, Damage Resistance and the End Sink. If I take this set does that mean I should take the Leadership pool?
Having only fully set slotted out a tank, scrapper, blaster and a controller (all to varying degrees of success) I am totally in the dark about the finer points of slotting a defender. As a side note I will respec my original build to be more of a team player but I am pretty sure I have a better handle on that design and slotting.
Some quick notes on the build so far from off the top of my head but I will post a Mids of the current build when I get back to my laptop. I took RI, EF, AM, EM Pulse, LR and skipped the rez, FO, CC. I took the ranged attacks in sonic and skipped the T9 and knockdown. Power pool choices are Leaping (CJ/SJ), Fitness (Hurdle, Health, Recovery) Speed (Hasten) and Leadership (Maneuvers/Assault).
Help?