Dual Builds and you

"If only I had more room to take THIS power!"
"I'd PVP, but I don't feel like hosing my PVE build."
"I wish I had more offense. I have so many team powers that are useless when I solo."
"I'd respec, but I don't want to make a mistake there and destroy my current build."

Have you ever thought thoughts like this? Well, congrats, your wish has been answered!

Actually, it was answered some time ago. The COH team introduced dual builds back in Issue 13, yet it seems many people still aren't aware of them. Dual builds are interesting, potentially useful things to have.

How do I unlock dual builds?

It's a long and difficult process, but I'll walk you through it. Ready?

Step 1: Get to level 10.






Yes, that's it. Dual builds become available for your character at level 10 automatically. You don't need a level 50, you don't need to run a trial or have vet rewards of any level. Just hit level ten and Bing! There they are.

Issue 19/Incarnate update!

You can now unlock, not a double, but a TRIPLE build! Once you visit Mender Ramiel and finish your Incarnate arc, you will have the option for a third build. This, so far, is the only build you need to do something to unlock.

How do I use dual builds?

When you want to use your dual build, just go to any trainer. You don't have to do it WHEN you level - if you're four bubbles in to level 23, go do it. If you're a bubble away from 11, you can do it. It doesn't matter. At the trainer, you will see an option to "Select your active build." By default, these are called "Build 1" and "Build 2." Select build 2, and confirm you want to do so.

You will be starting over from level "0," essentially - you pick a primary power, then a secondary separately. From then, it's JUST like levelling normally until you're at your main build's current level. *NOTE Yes, this means if you're doing a VEAT and hit 24, you'll be levelling 23 times, then starting over yet again. Yes, it's an annoyance.

Next - you buy enhancements.

No, enhancements are not shared between the two builds. They are, in essence, two separate characters sharing one slot. (Obviously you still have your recipes, inventory, and influence or infamy.)

You can also name the builds. One caveat, though, it's on the same timer (sort of) as switching builds (once every 15 minutes.) So if you wanted to try an "Original" and a "test" build and call them that, name the original build "Original," then switch. You won't be able to name the new build for 15 minutes, since the game won't let you into that menu. Hopefully this will change in the future.

Why would I use dual builds?

The reasons are varied. I'll go over a few possibilities, though:

1. The Pre-Respec Respec (or I don't want to nuke my build until I'm sure.)

Don't have a respec handy? Have one but you want to see how the build actually operates? Want to see how a different APP or PPP works? Use your second build! Your primary build is tucked away safely under "Build 1," so if you find the second build *just* doesn't do it for you, you can switch back. Of course, any future changes will require a respec to be used (unless we get more builds at some point,) but this is a quick and dirty way to respec without being a vet, having a recipe drop, or having to run a trial. Remember, of course, the second (or third) build needs its own enhancements.

2. Solo vs Team builds

This is a huge one for me. Some powersets are mostly useful no matter if you're teamed or solo (Radiation Emission, for one.) Others are more team oriented - Thermal, Empathy, Sonic and Force Fields come to mind. If you're solo, you can use the second build to build up a "Solo" build that drops (for instance) the shields, Clear Mind/Fortitude, or other powers you can't use on yourself in favor of more offense or other power pools. This opens up a LOT of slots in some builds (for instance, my Dark/Thermal Corruptor, in her solo build, has in essence a three power secondary - Warmth (the self heal,) Heat Exhaustion and Melt Armor. That gives me six more powers to pick to fill out her concept or build her offense -so she has the Presence pool and a full primary.)

3. Concept vs Team builds

Want to play a petless Mastermind, but want to keep your tanking ability on teams? Here's your chance! Make your petless Concept build on build 1, and your Tankermind build on build 2. When you're solo or on a concept team, stick with your concept. PUGging it? Break out the pets.

4. PVE vs PVP

Sometimes you want to ensure you have certain powers at certain levels - or "mule" powers, or certain pools and slotting for PVP. Meanwhile, you're reasonably effective already in PVE. Well, here you go - keep your PVE build, and make a PVP tuned build when you want to take on your fellow players.

5. The Exemplar build

Somewhat related to the PVE/PVP reason - Want to make sure you have certain powers when you exemp down for Positron? Even with Issue 16's SSK and extended powers availability for Exemplaring, you may still want certain powers at certain levels you skipped on the way up. Rebuild with those in mind, while keeping your current, effective, high level build intact.

6. HEATs (Kheldians) - Human vs Multiform

Kheldians are interesting creatures to play. (I know, I have several of them at 50.) Many go dual or tri form - especially with an AOE powerhouse like Nova available at level 6. Yet others choose to go "pure human" form. Well, this can give you the best of both worlds, letting you try both play styles with a simple switch of a build.

7. VEATs (SoA) - I want to be one of those!

VEATs and dual builds are... interesting. As noted earlier, using dual builds means you get hit with the forced respec at 24 with the new build again, which to me makes the process... irritating. For Widows, that's the only snag - you can switch between Widow and Fortunata without much hassle.

For Soldiers, however, there's one catch at this time. If EITHER BUILD uses ANY Crab powers, BOTH are going to end up with the Crab backpack - even if the other build goes Bane (locking them all out of that build.) So be aware of that. If you don't want the legs, don't take any crab powers in EITHER build - which limits you to bane or "huntsman."

8. Whatever other reason you want.

Do I have to use dual builds?

Nope. Not at all. Even though I'm a big fan of them, maybe 1/4 to 1/3 of my characters use them. They're a purely optional utility for your use.

Incarnate Power update:
Added 5/29/2011

With I19/I20 and Incarnate slots and powers, you may be wondering how they and dual builds interact.

Incarnate powers are exempt from the "Nothing is shared between builds" statement. If you have (say) Nerve slotted in alpha, the Reactive proc, War Works pets, etc. slotted while playing build 1, they're all *still* slotted in build 2 and 3. They don't care what build you're on (mostly because you can slot/unslot them independently without a respec.)

So, in a nutshell:
ENHANCEMENTS - must be purchased/crafted/slotted for each build on their own. (Yes, that means they can expire on one build you don't use much while you level the other.)

TEMP POWERS - are unaffected. If you have time/charges/whatever, that's maintained regardless of build.

INCARNATE POWERS - are unaffected. If you've unlocked one, it stays unlocked. Anything slotted stays slotted, anything crafted stays crafted. It does not need re-unlocking or re-crafting per build.

See my Guides and Tutorials

As always, very informative.

I'm a huge fan of "dual builds" myself, especially with my Khelds. In fact, I'm hoping that Devs will allow for a 3rd (and possibly 4th) build in the future. I've respec'd some of my guys so much both on live and test that I'd love the ability to have some of the builds I've put together for specific situations/TFs/AV fights, without destroying my "main" builds.

Anyway, again, great guide.

"Alien"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernus_Hades The way you play changes your IO slotting..

Thanks! I've been wondering what that feature was all about.

Since I happen to be working on a character that uses these, I thought I'd use her as an example of dual builds.

The character's meant to be sort of a "dimensional cop/detective." It's also a "I should really try dual pistols, and I'd like a paired set I'll have wiggle room with." I'd played Force Fields before (50 Earth/FF controller, for one,) and the set fit the bill. (Concept wise, I wanted to fit stealth in somewhere.)

So, reasons for dual builds on her?
Solo vs Team - Leaning towards more "me" powers and damage slotting solo versus team buffs, utility and secondary effects on the team build.
Concept vs Team - Some power selections (stealth, detention field) that I can now pick or use more freely than I would on a team build.

I'm sure the min-max crowd are going to look at these and have convulsions but these are work-it-out-for-fun builds, not uber, "the one true way" type builds. (And they'll likely be changed as I level, anyway.) I'm putting them here just as examples.

The solo build - solo, of course, not having team shields and the like (and snagging stealth for concept,) team sacrificing some attacks for team utility.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.707
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Cosmique (Solo): Level 50 Technology Defender
Primary Power Set: Force Field
Secondary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Personal Force Field -- DefBuff(A), Krma-ResKB(15)
Level 1: Pistols -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Dmg(7), Dmg(9), Dmg(33), EndRdx(34)
Level 2: Dual Wield -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Dmg(7), Dmg(9), Dmg(34), EndRdx(34)
Level 4: Empty Clips -- Acc(A), Acc(5), Dmg(5), Dmg(11), DefDeb(11), Range(50)
Level 6: Fly -- Flight(A), EndRdx(42)
Level 8: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 10: Swap Ammo
Level 12: Dispersion Bubble -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(13), EndRdx(13), DefBuff(37), DefBuff(37), DefBuff(50)
Level 14: Health -- Heal(A), Heal(15)
Level 16: Bullet Rain -- Acc(A), Acc(17), Dmg(17), Dmg(40), Dmg(40), EndRdx(46)
Level 18: Repulsion Field -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(19), FrcFbk-Rechg%(19)
Level 20: Suppressive Fire -- Acc(A), Acc(21), Dmg(21), Dmg(31), Dmg(31), Hold(42)
Level 22: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(23), EndMod(23)
Level 24: Force Bolt -- Acc(A), Acc(25), Dmg(25), Dmg(33), KBDist(43)
Level 26: Repulsion Bomb -- Acc(A), Acc(27), Dmg(27), Dmg(43), Dsrnt(43)
Level 28: Executioner's Shot -- Acc(A), Acc(29), Dmg(29), Dmg(31), Dmg(33), DefDeb(50)
Level 30: Detention Field -- Acc(A)
Level 32: Stealth -- EndRdx(A)
Level 35: Piercing Rounds -- Acc(A), Acc(36), Dmg(36), Dmg(36), Dmg(37), Range(46)
Level 38: Hail of Bullets -- Acc(A), Acc(39), Dmg(39), Dmg(39), Dmg(40), EndRdx(46)
Level 41: Power Build Up -- RechRdx(A), ToHit(42)
Level 44: Force of Nature -- EndRdx(A), ResDam(45), ResDam(45), EndMod(45)
Level 47: Temp Invulnerability -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(48), ResDam(48), ResDam(48)
Level 49: Conserve Power -- RechRdx(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 6: Ninja Run
Level 10: Chemical Ammunition
Level 10: Cryo Ammunition
Level 10: Incendiary Ammunition

And then there's the team build -

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.707
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Cosmique (Team): Level 50 Technology Defender
Primary Power Set: Force Field
Secondary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Personal Force Field -- DefBuff(A)
Level 1: Pistols -- Acc(A), Dmg(3), Dmg(5), DefDeb(15), EndRdx(33)
Level 2: Dual Wield -- Acc(A), Dmg(3), Dmg(9), Slow(15), EndRdx(34)
Level 4: Deflection Shield -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(5), EndRdx(7), DefBuff(17), DefBuff(34), DefBuff(40)
Level 6: Insulation Shield -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(7), EndRdx(9), DefBuff(17), DefBuff(40), DefBuff(40)
Level 8: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 10: Empty Clips -- Acc(A), Dmg(11), Dmg(11), DefDeb(37), DefDeb(37)
Level 12: Dispersion Bubble -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(13), DefBuff(13), DefBuff(23), DefBuff(33)
Level 14: Fly -- EndRdx(A)
Level 16: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(19), DefBuff(19), DefBuff(23), DefBuff(46)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(21), EndMod(21)
Level 22: Swap Ammo
Level 24: Tactics -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(25), ToHit(25), ToHit(34)
Level 26: Suppressive Fire -- Acc(A), Acc(27), Dmg(27), Dmg(36), Dsrnt(37), Dsrnt(46)
Level 28: Assault -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(29), EndRdx(29)
Level 30: Repulsion Bomb -- Acc(A), Acc(31), Dmg(31), Dmg(31), Dsrnt(46)
Level 32: Force Bubble -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(33)
Level 35: Vengeance -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(36), Heal(36), ToHit(45), ToHit(45)
Level 38: Hail of Bullets -- Acc(A), Acc(39), Dmg(39), Dmg(39), Slow(43), EndRdx(45)
Level 41: Piercing Rounds -- Acc(A), Acc(42), Dmg(42), Dmg(42), Slow(43), EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Power Build Up -- RechRdx(A)
Level 47: Temp Invulnerability -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(48), ResDam(48), ResDam(48), ResDam(50)
Level 49: Force of Nature -- EndMod(A), ResDam(50), RechRdx(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Vigilance
Level 6: Ninja Run
Level 22: Chemical Ammunition
Level 22: Cryo Ammunition
Level 22: Incendiary Ammunition

The solo build, of course, leans more toward damage - I'm solely relying on myself, my force fields and what not to get through missions more quickly. (Aside from the lower spawn sizes, of course.) Being able to ignore team shields (and pick up otherwise discounted powers like detention field, since I don't have to worry about confusing the team) leads to a lot of flexibility.

The team build gives up damage, not just in having fewer attacks in favor of buffs, but in actually slotting for less damage in favor of secondary effects (slows, defense debuffs and the like.)

You can do this with other sets as well, such as Thermal, Sonic, Cold Domination and Empathy to varying degrees.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Handy guide Bill, two hooves up!

Nice guide I go solo/team on my buffers and mm's (and I have the crab backpack on my Bane ).
I think you should add that temp powers like Raptor pack aren't shared but vet powers and booster packs are.

I changed my sig.

Added minor update on unlocking the third build (run the incarnate arc.)

I've got to admit,with inherent stamina, builds have loosened up a bit, which may make the second/third build slightly less attractive to some. And *I* don't even know how I'd make use of a third build just yet. Time will tell.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Sadly dual builds are an extremely underused feature due to the enhancement restriction, I don't know of a single person who's used DB's nor have I ever seen anyone mention it through chat since it was added.


It's truly mind boggling to envision a developer diagramming a system whereby a player would want to start over at zero when they have in some cases billions invested in enhancements they would then have no access to, just so they can try group fly, and the dev self satisfyingly green lighting it.


Only those with access to billions can take full advantage of this "feature", unless a player is interested in going from an optimal build to one filled with generic IO (which would still cost millions) and SO.



And frankly, the fact that all of 4 (four) players have responded to this topic in over a year, illustrates how abysmally unpopular dual builds are, entirely due to the absurdly ridiculous restrictions.


.

No, it does not require "billions." A single build doesn't require "billions" either to be perfectly effective, powerful and fun. (I don't think I have a single build - even a single dual build - that runs close to one, much less several, billion.) SOs, common IOs and the like work perfectly fine.

If YOU want to spend billions on a build, go for it. If YOU don't, fine. But saying that's a problem with dual builds is like pointing out a high end exotic's multi-million dollar price tag as a complaint about car prices in general. Most cars don't share that seven (or more) digit price tag. And most peoples builds don't cost even near a billion INF.

And the devs put it in because - ready for this? - *we asked for it.* Yes, the players asked for it. For solo vs group builds. For PVE vs PVP builds. For most of the reasons I mentioned as reasons to try them in the post itself. Satisfying customer requests is generally not considered "wasted time."

As for not hearing about them in chat? So what? No, I don't think they're widely known about. That's part of the reason I wrote this up. It's also something I'll mention when appropriate to someone' situation, such as feeling they have to sacrifice too much for a group build to solo effectively, or not wanting to respec a character to try out a more effective PVP build. I don't tend to hear people talking about wanting to make up a third, fourth, or fifth costume - but they do anyway.

See my Guides and Tutorials

Good guide Bill, and for Tank, I use dual builds 1 for level 50 and 1 for exemping and I hope to figure out a use for the 3rd build but can't so far.

I'm with Bill on this one. My main character is an Invulnerability/Super Strength tanker who battled for years between being a better tanker for group play and kicking more butt when soloing...now I have both. Having the ability to go from cooperative to solo play just by visiting a trainer has drastically improved my gameplay enjoyment with my favorite character.

Most of the regular players I run with have at least one character that they have done the same thing with for the same reason. We don't talk about it on chat...but then I don't usually discuss build design or slotting choices on chat either.

I have a question concerning dual builds and my Fortunata/Widow. If I make my second build on my Fortunata a Night Widow, how does CoX handle the power trays when I switch between builds?

I will have almost no powers repeat between the two builds, does Cox remember that Tray1 as a Fortunata looks like so, and Tray1 as a Night Widow looks differently? Or do I need to do something more like tray 1-3 for Fortunata and tray 4-6 for NW?

Thank you sir, looking forward to my Fort/NW dual build!

Good Guide Bill, as always.