Kin/Elec Sapper - Is this still viable?


Airhammer

 

Posted

What gets me is that you can drain endurance, but you really can't stop recovery (you can slow it down iirc). And since an NPC can use any attack with 0.01% end, end draining is kinda pointless.

Now on an EB or something, yeah, it's great once you bottom them out and make them stop attacking, but that's about the only time it's worth it.


-STEELE =)


Allied to all sides so that no matter what, I'll come out on top!
Oh, and Crimson demands you play this arc-> Twisted Knives (MA Arc #397769)

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele View Post
What gets me is that you can drain endurance, but you really can't stop recovery (you can slow it down iirc). And since an NPC can use any attack with 0.01% end, end draining is kinda pointless.

Now on an EB or something, yeah, it's great once you bottom them out and make them stop attacking, but that's about the only time it's worth it.
Short Circuit stops recovery. Tesla Cage stops recovery.
Some other attacks have a small chance to stop it very briefly.


Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talionis View Post
It seems Break Frees and well placed Tesla Cages are really the only answers to being mezed, huh?

Its near impossible to get a significant level of Defense built up.
Force of Nature does not provide Mez Protection, muh... its not like it would be near perma
Power Build Up does up Defense some, but its hard to get it up a significant amount of the time. I'd personally rather have had regular Power Boost. At least it could've been up regularly to help boost defense through an Alpha Strike.
I would say this is fairly far from the truth. aside from mez, which can be avoided by carrying some break frees, you can get a significant amount of defense built up. I use power build up in place of build up for damage rather than for the secondary effect unless im sapping or venging. Although another hole that has annoyed me is defense debuff resistance. I've been wanting them to put in a proc of some sort to give ddr, much like the slow proc for the universal travel, in for a long time. But aside from mez and ddr, I've made a number of defenders that have build up a pretty good defense system by itself and is magnified when you add in things like mitigation and secondary effects from your primary and secondary.


Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PC_guy View Post
I would say this is fairly far from the truth. aside from mez, which can be avoided by carrying some break frees, you can get a significant amount of defense built up. I use power build up in place of build up for damage rather than for the secondary effect unless im sapping or venging. Although another hole that has annoyed me is defense debuff resistance. I've been wanting them to put in a proc of some sort to give ddr, much like the slow proc for the universal travel, in for a long time. But aside from mez and ddr, I've made a number of defenders that have build up a pretty good defense system by itself and is magnified when you add in things like mitigation and secondary effects from your primary and secondary.
I haven't seen a build with over 30ish Defense even with Power Build Up and that's up like 1/12 the time.

Is 30 enough to be good? I guess you can go for Smashing Lethal Defense and that might be ok. But ranged defense, while normally enough for Defenders isn't for a Kinetic/Electric since so much of what they do requires they be in Melee area.

My first toon was a Kin/Electric he's sitting at 26 and I just don't play him because it seemed like he wouldn't be viable.

But to this day, this is the toon I really wish I could make good. I still keep coming back to him. I've always wanted a Kin/Melee toon.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talionis View Post
I haven't seen a build with over 30ish Defense even with Power Build Up and that's up like 1/12 the time.

Is 30 enough to be good? I guess you can go for Smashing Lethal Defense and that might be ok. But ranged defense, while normally enough for Defenders isn't for a Kinetic/Electric since so much of what they do requires they be in Melee area.

My first toon was a Kin/Electric he's sitting at 26 and I just don't play him because it seemed like he wouldn't be viable.

But to this day, this is the toon I really wish I could make good. I still keep coming back to him. I've always wanted a Kin/Melee toon.
Biospark runs currently with 20% Defense to Melee/AoE/Range and Psi and its pretty viable solo and teaming. I still need to carry around break frees, but I can move in and out of melee range pretty safely. I have also planned out and someday will finish up a solo build that hits 30% to all positions and ups his s/l resist to the mid-60s. But again, he will still need maintain a stock of breakfrees.

My own Kin-Electric is sitting at 28 and to be honest, he "saps" at 28 using SC+Transference nearly as well as Biospark does at 50 with SC+Powersink.

I would say to post your build and see if anyone can help you with it.
Also, if you play alot of tanks/scraps, the constant reminder of your weakness to "mez" effects could be biggest detractor for you. I know it is for me. But I have finally come to terms with the idea that I have to manage my Inspy-tray on this character. No choice really.


BIOSPARK :: DARKTHORN :: SKYGUARD :: WILDMAGE
HEATSINK :: FASTHAND :: POWERCELL :: RUNESTAFF

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biospark View Post
Biospark runs currently with 20% Defense to Melee/AoE/Range and Psi and its pretty viable solo and teaming. I still need to carry around break frees, but I can move in and out of melee range pretty safely. I have also planned out and someday will finish up a solo build that hits 30% to all positions and ups his s/l resist to the mid-60s. But again, he will still need maintain a stock of breakfrees.

My own Kin-Electric is sitting at 28 and to be honest, he "saps" at 28 using SC+Transference nearly as well as Biospark does at 50 with SC+Powersink.

I would say to post your build and see if anyone can help you with it.
Also, if you play alot of tanks/scraps, the constant reminder of your weakness to "mez" effects could be biggest detractor for you. I know it is for me. But I have finally come to terms with the idea that I have to manage my Inspy-tray on this character. No choice really.
I do play a lot of Tanks, but a lot of Defenders too. With Kin's it just seems like the Mez's are more danagerous. Often I'm in melee range to apply Fulcrem (I have a 45 Kin/Arch) or to get a benefit from Transfusion and Transference. Getting Mez'ed in melee range on a squishee equals death. I'm not the quickest at getting inspirations out of the tray either.

Part of the problem is that I use my insperations for big fights, occassional extra green, and a stash of wakies. I usually have the break frees I just forget or can't use them quick enough for the cascade of bad to kill the toon.

My 45 Trick Arrow/Dark doesn't have nearly the problem with getting mez'ed but I'd expect that since she has some defense so a lot of those mez's will miss. She's also can keep the damage at a distance where it doesn't cascade as quickly into a nose dive.

The lack of defense has long plagued Kinetic Defenders and has made the powerful set far more practicle a secondary for Controllers than for Defenders since the Controllers offer the defense in their primary. I've just never liked the playstyle of Controllers.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Talionis View Post
I haven't seen a build with over 30ish Defense even with Power Build Up and that's up like 1/12 the time.

Is 30 enough to be good? I guess you can go for Smashing Lethal Defense and that might be ok. But ranged defense, while normally enough for Defenders isn't for a Kinetic/Electric since so much of what they do requires they be in Melee area.

My first toon was a Kin/Electric he's sitting at 26 and I just don't play him because it seemed like he wouldn't be viable.

But to this day, this is the toon I really wish I could make good. I still keep coming back to him. I've always wanted a Kin/Melee toon.
my cold is currently running 40% ranged and 25% melee and if i had the cash I could get more. this would (and has) work on a kin/elec since you can keep your distance and still get the effects of both trans's. The only thing that would require you to be in really close melee would be SC and FS which you could get off fairly quickly then kite like hell.


Positron's i13 letter: We are trying to make PvP more accessible to new players, while giving experienced PvP'ers the advantage that comes with formulating tactics around the new systems we're putting in place. PvP from now on will be on our priority list. If something isn't working out, we'll be in there tweaking it and making it work, for the entire future of the product, not just Issue 13.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by PC_guy View Post
The only thing that would require you to be in really close melee would be SC and FS which you could get off fairly quickly then kite like hell.
SC has a 3 second animation so I wouldn't consider getting it off quickly. I have died, and/or had teammates die because I was stuck in it's animation.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele View Post
What gets me is that you can drain endurance, but you really can't stop recovery (you can slow it down iirc). And since an NPC can use any attack with 0.01% end, end draining is kinda pointless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMike2000 View Post
The other alternative would be to give meaningful (ie 20%-30%) drain to Lightning Bolt and Charged Bolt and Ball Lightning. This way you'd drain a tough enemy simply by attacking them - a boss would run out of endurance before it ran out of hit points. A lot like how an Ice Blaster slows their targets recharge down without even trying, it just happens as you attack. Or a Dark Blasting Defender drops their enemies to Hit by attacking.
Yeah, I was noticing on my elec/elec Blaster that everything in the secondary has a small bit or chance of -recovery while only specific moves in the primary have it. Mostly it's just -endurance. Adding some -recovery to Lightning Bolt, Charged Bolt, by extension of that adding it to Voltaic Sentinel's blasts should help out a lot in sapping and may expand build options. Blasters and Corruptors would probably still stick with damage but slotting for end mod would be more viable for Defenders.