Tanker/Stalker melee set: Death Scythe!

Yikes! You have a point. Weapons are costume details now, and getting them to leave the hand in any way could be... Well, let's say "problematic" so that we can remain positive about it Put it like this - a weapon that switches hands mid-animation and generally leaves the weapon hand would be enough to make this set unique from all the others. I understand City of Heroes is more of a click-n-kill and limited in what animations it can have, but if a crappy, crappy game like 9Dragons can have these animations (and, yes, all of those are from in-game combat), I can still dream of seeing them in a good game like City of Heroes, right?

The thing, though, is that Katana may be smooth, but that sort of fits-and-starts combat style only really works with light weapons. Anything like this with a heavy weapon would just look silly. And, again, if we reduce the scythe to a slower, direct-attack weapon like how Katana works, it becomes little more than a two-handed battle axe, which I don't think you want.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Sam, you gotta learn to separate fact from opinion. Like I said, it all comes down to how good the animations are. If they are actually good, you'll only notice the fits-and-starts when you're being anal about it. As of now, few people actually care how fluid the animations are. They just want them short.

As for the set looking like a 2-handed battle axe, tell me what the difference between the current Battle Axe and War Mace sets? The answer is its effects (because the animations are nearly the same if not identical). The 2-hand axe won't have a cone 'knocktowards' power (and if you can harp about a new animation mechanic I can about a new knock-vector) or some of the cool specialized effects that the Death Scythe set would have. That's why I suggested it, so that it'll be different from any weapon set available or released in the future.

But you say direct attacks would look silly with a scythe. I don't think so. The idea is to kill the foe quickly and cleanly (in as few hits as possible) so fluidity of attack isn't *that* necessary unless you're talking about switching from attacking one corps to another victim (I think currently, the player character just 'slides' toward the new direction. not fluid at all) but that's completely different from what you're talking about.

You're right, the differences between Battle Axe, War Mace and Broadsword are not great, but for attack effects, but what I'm saying is with direct, fits-and-stops attacks, you may end up with a two-handed axe set with scythes as an alternative the same way the hammer is an alternative to War Mace.

And, yes, I do very much agree it's opinion, and I can't say yours is wrong. However, I just don't believe a large weapon working like that would look decent. A large weapon has momentum, which means it takes strength to get it moving and strength to get it stopped. You NEED those to be obvious if you want the weapon to feel like it has mass (long weapons with long blades always do), but having to constantly "urk" to start and stop just doesn't look good in my eyes. Not for a blade, anyway. Maybe for a large two-handed hammer which ends all of its animations at the end of its momentum, but a hammer is essentially a weight on a stick, and for a REALLY big one, I wouldn't expect it to have too much technique. A scythe, on the other hand, and indeed any polearm, just wouldn't look good without sufficient technique in my opinion.

Look, if a set like you describe made it into the game, I certainly wouldn't turn up my nose and say "No. I don't want it. Take it back." I'd play it, and probably enjoy it greatly. But I would still enjoy a scythe set more if it were fluid and skilful, rather than hard and brutish.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

The only problem with a Staff powerset using bladed polearms as replacement weapons is damage types. A staff, typically, is blunt, so it would deal smashing damage, which really restricts it to some kind of staff or mace on a stick.

Going further than that, even if we restrict it to just polearms and use a halberd base, not all polearms work for all attack types. In fact, you see this problem with Broadsword. A sword is as much a thrusting weapon as it is a slashing weapon, but because it shares animations with Battle Axe and War Mace, which are a slashing/swinging weapons not really appropriate for thrusting attacks, Broadsword, and by extension Katana, have ended up without any stabbing attacks, Stalker Assassin's Strike aside. Hell, Broadsword's version is called Assassin's SLASH, even though it's a STAB.

To illustrate, a spear is a thrusting weapon to a large extent, though in the hands of Hong Kong movie starts, it could also function as a staff. On the flip side, your typical halberd or a naginata can be used for both slashing and thrusting. Further still, a Scythe is only useful for slashing, lacking a point at the tip of the shaft. If we want to have a powerset that's applicable for a scythe, we have to exclude spear-type weapons altogether and limit halberd-style weapons to slashing attacks only. It worked for Broadsword, kind of, but its lack of stabbing is something I've seen complained about through the game's lifetime. Never too frequently or harshly, mind you, bit it's there.

And all of that still excludes a staff pretty much as soon as you attack an iron blade at the end of the polearm.

That, and Leo G is right - a scythe as a weapon is rather unique from all the other polearms which have actually been used as weapons, historically, and as such might require its own fighting approach. Then again, what people think of when they think "combat scythe" has nothing to do with what an actual scythe is, how it's structured or how it's used. For instance, the scythe's blade is always depicted as being in the same plane as the shaft, similar to how an axe's blade is orientated, which makes it useful for chopping and swinging attacks. A real scythe has its blade projecting off to the side of the shaft at an angle, because it's designed to cut grass perpendicular to the ground whereas the shaft is typically close to upright. As well, from what I've seen, scythes aren't held by their shafts, but rather by handles mounted to the shafts. The whole design of the tool is so you can cut things at ground level while standing upright, so adapting one for combat makes it really not very much a scythe at all, so much as a very, very large kama.

I think this ambiguity in what a scythe is and what a scythe does that causes us to disagree so much, me having one mental image of it while others have their own, distinct one. Mine is mostly derived from Soul Eater, even though Maka's scythe has nothing to do with an actual scythe at all.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Okay, first off, they could use different SECONDARY EFFECTS(resistance debuff, recharge debuff, etc.) for Energy Blade. Even if they didn't, let me point to your examples of 'fundamentally different' weapons. How is Dual Blades that much different from Claws? Both have somewhat light-damage, fast recharging attacks, and you get a pair of them. Or for that matter, how would Hammer differ from War Mace? Both of them are heavy-duty smashing powers. Finally, how would Scythe be its own powerset, rather than little more than Katana or Ninja Blade with alternate animations?

The only argument you could drive is between Broadsword, Katana, War Mace and Battle Axe, because they were variations on the same (literally the same) powerset, but with different weapons from back before weapon customization. Anything else, though? How can you even BEGIN to compare Dual Blades to Claws, aside from having a similar build-up mechanic? One is a set of claws mounted on the hands with a technique specific to them, relying on quick slashing motions, whereas Dual Blades are swords held in the hands, emphasising stabbing attacks as much as slashing.

It's not a matter of the powersets being mechanically similar. Frankly, I'm not terribly interested in the mechanics, I discuss them only because they seem to be mandatory. However, how would you make an Energy Blade different from a Talsorian Broadsword? Just giving it another damage type and secondary effect is NOT enough if it looks very much identical. The weapon needs to be visually different.

And, no, War Mace is nothing like a two-handed hammer. For one, it's one-handed, and for another, it's nowhere near big or heavy enough to be called a "heavy weapon." It's not actually billed as one, either. The only weapon from the Broadsword family that is billed as "heavy" is battle axe. War Mace is not a huge, heavy weight. It's a club. A large, two-handed hammer with effects more similar to those of Super Strength (hammer-to-the-ground shockwave, say) would be very much different in a very much visual way. That, and even after the changes, War Mace is a lower-damage set.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Don't tempt me. I voted for Energy Blade and Psi Melee in that poll and I *will* make another discussion thread about a proposed Energy Blade set if I have to.

Look, I know it can be made to work. The argument, however, is the same as it was drawn against dual blades - don't we have enough of that while we miss other stuff that don't really have a close parallel? Yes, having an Energy Blade would be cool, and I wouldn't turn it down if it magically appeared, but since you can already just about get there with the Talsorian Broadsword, Katana and Dual Blades (even if the Dual Blades Talsorian option isn't very good), I'd really rather focus on something else, like a giant mallet or, yes, a scythe. Energy Blade is like the Electrical Hammer option in the same poll. How the hell did that even get in there? It's about as specific as a "Batarang" powerset.

Personally, I would be well for a large, heavy scythe as a powerset. The only reason I could actually be AGAINST this is if I had to pick between that and a more general polearm set which allowed for more customization options and more animation freedom, though that isn't really the case here.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Yes. Yes I did.

Mainly to talk and gauge what people actually want of such a set.