It requires people to be in range, and if there are no people in range, you don't get the benefit. You're not actually ON a team of two-to-eight people, you're saying you can, solo, do the work of two-to-eight people. There is a huge difference.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
|
Stalkers get the bonus to crit for nearby teammates because, in theory, the enemy is distracted by being outnumbered, thus making it easier for the Stalker to land an extra effective hit.
If you've ever played Dungeons and Dragons (3rd Edition), think about how Rogues can get their Sneak Attack bonus by attacking a Flanked opponent. It's the same idea - the enemy can't defend themselves properly, and you know how to take advantage of that.
@Roderick
Justifiable?
Give scrappers the same ability to crit more often on teams in the first place, THEN we'll talk about letting stalkers crit more for virtual teammates.
STILL annoys the hell out of me that in buffing stalkers....they were given a BETTER version of the scrapper inherent.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
I don't think that scrappers need the +crit while teamed bonus, but both scrappers and stalkers should have the same base crit chance, be it the scrappers' 5% or the stalkers' 10%.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Justifiable?
Give scrappers the same ability to crit more often on teams in the first place, THEN we'll talk about letting stalkers crit more for virtual teammates. STILL annoys the hell out of me that in buffing stalkers....they were given a BETTER version of the scrapper inherent. |
In general, scrapper secondaries are better than stalker ones. The stalker relies on dealing high damage to take out enemies before they are defeated. Scrappers also get more AoEs, possibly bringing the damage numbers closer together.
Boost scrappers to 10% base, 15% for "higher crit chance" attacks? - Yes.
Give stalkers their team bonus when they're not on a team? - No.
@Roderick
Scrappers already have a 10% chance to crit lieutenants and up. The 5% chance against minions doesn't even matter since they tend to die very fast anyway.
Scrappers also have a 1.125 melee damage modifier, which is 12.5% higher than Stalkers' 1.0.
The 10% crit chance puts Stalkers at a theoretical melee mod of 1.1 and Scrappers at 1.2375 (1.125x1.1). For Stalkers to get similar results, they'd have to have 4 people in 30' radius so it'd become a theoretical 1.22, which is close enough.
It can be lower, it can be higher. Anyway, the Scrapper will still have more HP and AoEs. I'd consider it pretty balanced.
I look at it like this:
Wouldn't blaster players be upset if corruptors got a BETTER version of Defiance, AND got to keep their inherent ability of Scourge?
They took one of the things that made scrappers unique (the ability to land a critical at any time) and gave an improved version of it to another AT, while that AT also got to keep the inherent they had before (the ability to guarantee a critical when in hide)
And scrappers received nothing in return for that.
Sorry, just happens to be one of my pet peeves.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
The point is, stalkers were completely under-performing to the point of no one playing them. Low population alone is not a reason to buff an AT, but when the low population is the direct result of ineffectiveness, it is warranted.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I look at it like this:
Wouldn't blaster players be upset if corruptors got a BETTER version of Defiance, AND got to keep their inherent ability of Scourge? They took one of the things that made scrappers unique (the ability to land a critical at any time) and gave an improved version of it to another AT, while that AT also got to keep the inherent they had before (the ability to guarantee a critical when in hide) And scrappers received nothing in return for that. Sorry, just happens to be one of my pet peeves. |
Honestly, Claws, I know enough from your posts that you should be the last person to think that scrappers are gimped.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Quote:
hm. funny thing is, I never thought of the hide/crit thing as a genuine inherent, as it only functions with two powers- hide and placate. As such, I always viewed it more as an attribute of those powers. The stalker critical chance functions at all times, under the given circumstances, with all powers. As such, it seems more like a genuine inherent, whilst the 'hide' thing is a power gimmick.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I look at it like this:
Wouldn't blaster players be upset if corruptors got a BETTER version of Defiance, AND got to keep their inherent ability of Scourge? They took one of the things that made scrappers unique (the ability to land a critical at any time) and gave an improved version of it to another AT, while that AT also got to keep the inherent they had before (the ability to guarantee a critical when in hide) And scrappers received nothing in return for that. Sorry, just happens to be one of my pet peeves. |
*psssst: brutes have a ST guantlet ALONG with fury*
Stalker crits also functioned out of Hide/Placate, if the target was mezzed, under the old method.
@Roderick
Quote:
That's because scrappers were already fun to play and welcome in teams. |
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
And scrappers received nothing in return for that.
|
Honestly, even with this buff I rarely see stalkers get team invites from players who know their way around redside.
Quote:
The only way I could really justify that statement is for Regeneration, because Stalkers have less HP. Generally, the power that Hide replaces isn't very important to them (such as Death Shroud), or isn't exactly a necessity (such as Quick Recovery). In fact, because of Hide's superior defense while Hidden and the fact that both Scrappers and Stalkers share the same base values, I would call several of the Stalker secondaries better than their Scrapper equivalents.
|
Originally Posted by Roderick
In general, scrapper secondaries are better than stalker ones.
|
http://www.fimfiction.net/story/36641/My-Little-Exalt
Quote:
I think upping Stalkers' crit when soloing mega-spawn missions is unnecessary really (stalkers are more for soloing higher level beefy targets than lotsa little ones), since the crit-per-teammate was to make them effective enough to be invited to teams- large team battles last longer, which makes initiation moves like Assassin Strike less beneficial to the team overall.|
Originally Posted by Seldom
*psssst: brutes have a ST guantlet ALONG with fury*
|
Really, what we should be talking about is how Gauntlet sucks *** and doesn't work. I mean really, WHAT area taunt? I'm whaling on a guy, and the foe adjacent to him, who has not been hit by *anybody*, is still aiming at squishies? He's all like "Gauntlet? WTF is that? Noob tanker".
DERAILMENT! MUAHAHAHAHA!
Quote:
I don't think scrappers are gimped at all, this thread just happened to bring up one of my only sore spots regarding them.|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison
The point is, stalkers were completely under-performing to the point of no one playing them. Low population alone is not a reason to buff an AT, but when the low population is the direct result of ineffectiveness, it is warranted.
Honestly, Claws, I know enough from your posts that you should be the last person to think that scrappers are gimped. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Seldom
hm. funny thing is, I never thought of the hide/crit thing as a genuine inherent, as it only functions with two powers- hide and placate. As such, I always viewed it more as an attribute of those powers. The stalker critical chance functions at all times, under the given circumstances, with all powers. As such, it seems more like a genuine inherent, whilst the 'hide' thing is a power gimmick.
*psssst: brutes have a ST guantlet ALONG with fury* |
Honestly, I agree that stalkers DID need a buff, I'm not complaining about that at all. The buff they got was warranted and made the AT much better.
If stalkers had gotten the exact same chance to critical as scrappers, with no differences, I wouldn't care in the slightest.
The part that bugs me is they got a better base chance to crit, AND an increase to that chance while teammates are near, while scrapper crits stayed exactly the same.
If they buffed scrapper chance to crit to 10% (like stalker's base) and left off the increased chance for teammates being near, I'd be happy with that.
Like I said, it's not really a huge deal to me, just one of my pet peeves.
Fleeting: Scrapper Willpower is better too, for the same reason scrapper Regen is: More HP
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Scrappers don't need a buff for stylistic purposes...
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ShadowNate
;_; ?!?! What the heck is wrong with you, my god, I have never been so confused in my life!
|
Quote:
Never said they needed a buff, just that I'd like to see the chance to crit equal between the 2 ATs that have the ability. Scrappers play just fine now.|
Originally Posted by Kitsune Knight
Scrappers don't need a buff for stylistic purposes...
|
Edit: Roderick said much the same thing. I happen to agree that the crit chance should be the same between scrappers and stalkers, either way they would do it. But, increasing scrapper's chance to 10% would be preferable to reducing stalkers to 5%.
Second Edit to clarify my position:
I'm not angry about this by any means. It's not a gamebreaker for me at all. I just feel it would be fair for an ability shared by two ATs to work more or less the same for both of them.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Quote:
You could crit out of hidden state, not Hide. Placate applies the hidden state as well, so you didn't have to wait around doing nothing for 10 seconds before being able to crit again. (They lowered the amount of time you had to wait to 8 seconds during the change, as well.)|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
...
Except, if I recall correctly, stalkers originally could crit ONLY while in Hide, .... |
Also, you automatically had a chance to crit against slept and held foes, regardless of hidden state. Stalkers + Doms = awesome. They took that away when they gave them 'crit all the time plus teammates'.
Not saying your opinions on the changes are wrong, just saying you're forgetting or leaving out some points.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
Justifiable?
Give scrappers the same ability to crit more often on teams in the first place, THEN we'll talk about letting stalkers crit more for virtual teammates. STILL annoys the hell out of me that in buffing stalkers....they were given a BETTER version of the scrapper inherent. |
Scrappers are still sturdier, AND do better damage overall.
I was reading a thread in the stalker forums just a moment ago and was thinking about issue 16 when I came acroos a rather interesting piece of data that I had long since forgotten. Stalkers have a base 10% chance to crit, going up to ~30% chance to crit on 8 member teams.
With the new changes to the difficulty setting, would it seem justifiable to allow stalkers to maybe gain a bonuse chance to crit up to 20-22% for the settings that allow them to choose what team size the equal?
I don't mean to cry buff stalker, it is just a honest question I have and would like a reasonable answer. Humor is recomended...
@Van De Graff-X, Liberty