Basic Easymode PVP Team?

Howdy!

So, when CoV launched, I drug my Guild Wars PVP crew over to redside in anticipation of base raids. At one point we were competing for 1st on server Redside by differentiating ourselves as 'the pvp guild' on our server. After Items of Power / Base Raids were taken away, my guild basically fell apart. The stated goals I'd used to recruit new members were impossible to achieve and the points I'd used to differentiate my VG were meaningless. The whole thing left a real bitter taste in my mouth as regards PVP for what I think are valid reasons, which is why I'm laying this all out up front.

That being said, I expect that Going Rogue is going to include major revamps to the PVP system. More to the point, I think it's going to -have- to include major revamps for the better or fail as a product. The first thing that comes to mind as an expansion-level PVP change is reimplementing base raiding, so I'm planning to get my toes wet with whatever the current version of PVP is so I can at least be somewhat knowledgeable when it starts to actually matter as a part of the game as a whole.

What I'm looking for is a sort of no-brainer team spec that I can use to get a group of people up to speed without spending billions on PVP IO builds. I'm not expecting to wipe the floor with everyone in RV, but I'd like to be able to survive long enough to understand why I lost and adjust my strategy. I'd also like something that's not reliant on the current metagame - if there's a tried-and-true strategy for not loosing I'd take that over a strategy that wins really hard right at the moment. I need to learn how to win 50% of the time against the best teams, not how to win 100% of the time against the worst teams.

Anyone feel like throwing me a bone?

~Hart

That's a loaded question.

By the time Going Rogue hits live, Im REALLY hoping PvP changes to the point where this guide is pointless, but here goes

Easy mode team:
As of right now, a team of stalkers is good, but if you don't have those, Masterminds, Dominators can also do damage. Support is really non-existant in PvP, but if you happen to have a paindom or therm on your team and the other players don't then your ahead.

If you want easy, just get a team of 8 stalkers and you can fishy spike crit from hide. The hard part will be actually finding stalkers competent enough to do a spike

Personally I believe that base raiding is a lost and gone game feature. I'd like to be pleasantly surprised by the new expansion and proved wrong, but I wont hold my breath. With that in mind, you're probably stuck with what we have, which is actually pretty much the best zone PvP on the MMO market at the moment. (even if you're an i13 hater, IMO you would still have to admit that travel powers makes what CoX has to offer much more appealing than any of the alternatives, and yes I've played them all)

I don't think that the new expansion HAS to include a major PvP revamp for it to win or lose as a product. (In my eyes as a PvP player only in this game, I agree with you. But from the Revenue side, which is all they will measure their success by, my opinion is irrelevant) Remember, well over 95% of the player base in this game wants nothing to do with PvP, so to expect or demand any kind of PvP content in this game is an ignorant opinion indeed. Anything we get is like the king tossing his dogs some scraps from the big boy table. It could very well be garbage, but we'll still eat it up because its all there is.

RV zone team builds still include the standard direct support toons, emp, pain, and therm. As target callers go, an ASing stalker (not a sharker) is always a good team choice as you'll die less often as the caller and continue to be able to direct team targets long after a toon without hide would. Peace Bringers are by far the most survivable ranged caller standing on over 2000 hit points 75% of the time with 2 heals that hit for over 1300 every 25 seconds with DR. It's also has the easiest access to slots that allow them to be immune to Lift and Levitate knockback effects clocking in with the 8 slots for mag 32 protection required to stop it dead. Blasters and Doms deal the most damage, with blasters edging out as the winners since they can continue to attack while mezzed. Considering damage is now the biggest factor in this game, it may tempt you to got that route. Finally keep in mind that most support toons are too busy buffing, debuffing, and tossing disruption attacks such as KB, cage, ect to be calling targets. With that in mind, if you are mostly interested in leading the team, calling targets, ect, I'd suggest sticking to the target caller/damage dealer slots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hart Howdy! So, when CoV launched, I drug my Guild Wars PVP crew over to redside in anticipation of base raids. At one point we were competing for 1st on server Redside by differentiating ourselves as 'the pvp guild' on our server. After Items of Power / Base Raids were taken away, my guild basically fell apart. The stated goals I'd used to recruit new members were impossible to achieve and the points I'd used to differentiate my VG were meaningless. The whole thing left a real bitter taste in my mouth as regards PVP for what I think are valid reasons, which is why I'm laying this all out up front. That being said, I expect that Going Rogue is going to include major revamps to the PVP system. More to the point, I think it's going to -have- to include major revamps for the better or fail as a product. The first thing that comes to mind as an expansion-level PVP change is reimplementing base raiding, so I'm planning to get my toes wet with whatever the current version of PVP is so I can at least be somewhat knowledgeable when it starts to actually matter as a part of the game as a whole. What I'm looking for is a sort of no-brainer team spec that I can use to get a group of people up to speed without spending billions on PVP IO builds. I'm not expecting to wipe the floor with everyone in RV, but I'd like to be able to survive long enough to understand why I lost and adjust my strategy. I'd also like something that's not reliant on the current metagame - if there's a tried-and-true strategy for not loosing I'd take that over a strategy that wins really hard right at the moment. I need to learn how to win 50% of the time against the best teams, not how to win 100% of the time against the worst teams. Anyone feel like throwing me a bone? ~Hart

-target callers can be Doms, MMs, or Stalkers on red side. (unless u are extremely skilled as support, disruption, or taunter i'd stick with those.)

-most of ur teams damage comes from doms, stalkers, and corrs.

-pretty much all support comes from corrs.

-taunters are only useful if the brute is very skilled and know exactly whats going on.

an easy mode villain side 8 man team would look like:

3 corr
2 dom
3 stalk

or if you guys have quite some skill:

1 MM
1 Brute
2 corr
1 dom
3 stalk

IMO, the biggest demoralizer is a brute webnading double taunt bot. I get more complaints in zone broadcast from my 3200 hit point phasing brute who does this than any of my other toons. It does however get old listening to people gripe, so it's best to have a fallback toon.

I'll take the other side of the coin and tell you to definetly take the therm shields. Considering most serious pvp doms take scorpion (for good reason), you will get alot of range out of the resist buff to their base resist even with DR. Also quite a bit of the stalker population still run defense based toons, so they will greatly benefit from the shield as well.

If for no other reason, sonic is useful just because it has access to the dreaded stun. All the squishies who know what's going on have acro, so holds are pretty pointless. Having access to another control tool, even if its only 2 seconds longer, is pretty handy. Not to mention when you do damage you're lowering the targets resist and helping your team do more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokyo If you are looking for a demoralizing class villain-side I'd definitely go corr; either Sonic, Elec or rad as your primary with Thermal and slot the -endo proc. Radiation Emission doesn't hold up so well in PvP since your two main debuffs are toggles and I have little experience with cold domination to be honest. If you do go therm (which I suspect you will) I Wouldn't bother with shields unless you are using them as placeholders for IO bonuses, with the current rules in place, shields are unnecessarily redundant.

Thanks for all the feedback everyone! Sorry for the wall of text, but it beats multiple posts..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokyo Hey, Ex GuildWars ladder member here too. Pirates of BBQ bay and Death by Snu Snu.

Think my ladder time was before BBQ really took off - I led Or Die Trying [ODT], and after half of us came here the rest formed [GLUG]. Usually played as H A R T or Ahyh Asr Ahyh, but you're more likely to know Crest or Northern since they still play.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokyo If you do go therm (which I suspect you will) I Wouldn't bother with shields unless you are using them as placeholders for IO bonuses, with the current rules in place, shields are unnecessarily redundant.

Okay.. why are shields redundant? I mean, I get why shields -after the first- are redundant thanks to the bizarre implementation of diminishing returns. On the other hand, because of diminishing returns gutting heals very quickly and not affecting damage at all, I would think that a reliable way to reduce incoming damage would be almost necessary in order to keep a team up through the whole fight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feugan Pain MMs have a harder time keeping up with the team than a Pain corrupter, works fine though if you camp somewhere and let it be a healing base for vills to run to.

So.. in other PVP games, I tend to want my entire team in approximately the same location so we can focus fire on individual targets and have healers in range for countering opposing spikes. Is there some reason that doesn't work in CoX? I guess the 'hit once and run like hell' nature of Stalkers kicks in here? Is there something that stops me from having the stalkers queue up AS, TPFoeing the enemy to the still-hidden stalkers, and plinking them with brawl to kill their travel powers?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Feugan Sonic hits harder, fires decent, even rad shapes up when slotted well... A good elec/therm corrupter can wreck havoc on an enemies endurance and have them helpless all to fast... Unless of course the hero brings blues of has geas...

I'm guessing that's through Heat Exhaustion? So far I've heard that the bubbles aren't very good, and it looks like heals get nerfed really fast, so it seems like my best bet is to end drain the opposing team or spike them down. Endurance drain and damage aren't effected by diminishing returns, and end drain should drop tanker/scrapper toggles which holds apparently don't do anymore. If I'm trying to end drain people and the bubbles suck, wouldn't I be better off with an elec/kin than an elec/thermal?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhamster IMO, the biggest demoralizer is a brute webnading double taunt bot. I get more complaints in zone broadcast from my 3200 hit point phasing brute who does this than any of my other toons. It does however get old listening to people gripe, so it's best to have a fallback toon.

Winning is winning. Does this work against good teams or just scrubs, though? I'd think that a brute would be pretty easy to either ignore or kill outright, since movement nerf kicks in whenever you swing and brutes need a bunch of swings to get Fury up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhamster I'll take the other side of the coin and tell you to definetly take the therm shields. Considering most serious pvp doms take scorpion (for good reason), you will get alot of range out of the resist buff to their base resist even with DR. Also quite a bit of the stalker population still run defense based toons, so they will greatly benefit from the shield as well. If for no other reason, sonic is useful just because it has access to the dreaded stun. All the squishies who know what's going on have acro, so holds are pretty pointless. Having access to another control tool, even if its only 2 seconds longer, is pretty handy. Not to mention when you do damage you're lowering the targets resist and helping your team do more.

Oh? Maybe my AR/Cold would be worth taking on a run or two. It's the toon with all my money in it, and Absolute Amazement in the disorient. Is Mag3 really enough to be worthwhile though?

Correct me if I'm wrong (as I may be), but I dont believe that stalkers get base resistance to all like squishies do. With that in mind, a defense based stalker will get a freakin ton out of a 30%+ resist sheild, even with DR in place.

There are very few self heals that will beat cauterize, so take it, sarcasm not included. :P I'm a huge fan of the heal based suppression changes (due to my need for a challenge). I12's skilless organized zone heal spam is no longer possible in the current environment. Now after 3-4 heals, the target needs to phase, or if that is down, actually use strategy like (heaven forbid) LoS breaks to provide the healer, who now actually has to count down in his head the end of the heal suppression time, instead of mashing 1 button over and over, enough time for the heals to go back to being effective. My dom uses evasion strategies all the time around buildings. My therm finds this far more enjoyable than the past heal spam, as I actually have to THINK to keep track of which toons are on heal suppression and if I should actually heal a few hundred points of damage which would start suppression, or just wait and see if they turn out to be a real spike target or not, instead of just reacting to damage and pressing one button.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tokyo 'greatly' with DR in place tends to be 'minimal', but it really Depends on his Playstyle. I have a feeling he's wanting to focus on demoralizing the enemy and less on buffing his teammates. The new PvP favors offensive over defensive tactics. But yes, if you are looking to be both support and offensively viable, Sonic/Therm for sure and take the shields. Holds are a joke. [sarcasm] I don't know, should he even bother with cauterize? They tend to hinder teammates that already have a self-heal more than they do help, with DR in place. [/sarcasmoff]