Ugh, a bit annoyed...

So I just found out that Defender's Trap got buffed. I don't know what the final % will be but from what I've gathered:

FFG is 13.3% DEF (Corr and MM are 10%)
Acid is 26.6% -RES (Corr and MM are 20% debuff)
Seeker Drones got boosted to 6.65% -ToHit and 26.6% -DMG (Corr and MM debuffs 20% damage)

Why does Defender's Trap got buffed and Corr's trap doesn't? If I want to use logic, then Defender's trap got buffed because Trap is their primary. Corruptor's Trap should be buffed because Corruptor's buff/debuff value should be about 25% higher than Mastermind's? Corr's trap didn't even get endurance adjustment until maybe a year ago.


And then Converse Power got buffed because it got ported to Heroes?? Funny they didn't think Stalker's Electricity Armor needs some buff because Stalker has lower HP and the set offers no healing/defense to back it up? Suddenly the dev feels the need to buff /Elec just because it's going to Heroes?

Do you see the trend here?


Yes, I know Brute's Claw is currently modified but I won't call it a buff because higher base damage = higher endurance/recharge. It's a "modified" version.


With the nerf of Poison Trap, Corr/Trap just seems really weak. Either MM's version needs to get nerfed or Corr's version needs to improve.

PS: They say Defender's Trip Mind and Time Bomb do less damage... I can give a !@#$# about Time Bomb to be honest with you. Trip Mind is situational at best. I would rather have improved FFG and Acid Mortar for Corr.

It looks from these numbers like Traps is exactly the same between Defenders and Corruptors - except that Defenders get a higher buff/debuff mod, so they get greater effect from the same power. If this is a buff to Traps, then Defenders also have "buffed" versions of every other buff/debuff set - and "nerfed" versions of every blast set.

Defenders will have Traps as their primary, so they are inherently better then the Corrupter version.
Defenders have their blasts as a secondary and are inherently worse then the Corrupter versions.

I can't prove this obviously but looking at the numbers it feels like the Traps set was originally balanced around Corrupters so the problem is actually that Masterminds got a better version of the set than they deserved. I realize it's unfair but it's one of those things you're going to have to live with. There are a number of other sets (kinetics springs to mind) where the use of pseudo pets means that one class is getting more power out of the set than they should based on their modifiers.

Corruptors and MM's have essentially the same version of the set, except the MM powers cost more. The reason MM Traps feels more effective is because your pets can constantly be putting our damage while you lay the traps, while a Corruptor or Defender has to pause to set up their traps.

I kinda expected it when it was first announced. Just like every other Villain set that gets ported to Heroes, It's stronger because it is a Primary. But look at the bright side, you can make an Archery/ Corruptor that will out damage a /Archery Defender...

"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho

I am talking in terms of comparing defenders and corruptors. Look at Cold Domination, every buff is stronger in the hero version than the villain version. There is no escaping it, it's the way Castle wanted to balance it. FYI, I am in your corner on this, but I know that it is pointless to complain, cause it ain't gonna change.

"Sorry bucko, but CoH and CoV are the same game." -BackAlleyBrawler
"Silly villain, CoX is for Heroes!" -Saicho

Okay, once again, from the top.

The effect of a power is determined by the interaction of two sets of statistics. One is the power's base statistics, and the other is the AT modifiers. Powers are designed such that their effects are a multiple of the AT modifier of the character that uses it.

Corruptor Traps and Defender Traps are the same powers. But Defenders have a higher AT buff/debuff modifier, so a Defender using the same Traps powers will have higher buff/debuff values. For exactly the same reason, a Defender using the same Traps powers will have lower damage values - because the Defender's AT damage modifier is lower than a Corruptor's.

The example of Claws is not analogous in the slightest - Brute Claw attacks actually are different powers than the Scrapper attacks of the same name. They have different power multipliers for damage, endurance, and recharge, and if a Scrapper were given Brute claw attacks, they would not be the same as the Scrapper's current claw attacks.

So, no, Traps was not in any way buffed for Defenders. And if you think that the Defender's higher buff/debuff mod is unfairly biased toward heroes, I am sure you will find no lack of disgruntled Defenders who feel they sacrifice far too much from their damage mod for that buff/debuff advantage.

Primary versus secondary and AT mod are two completely mechanically independent ways of expressing an AT's strength in a domain. Making a powerset a primary means that powers from it can be chosen earlier. Making AT mods for certain aspects higher means that powers that use those mods are stronger for that AT. Generally, an AT that has a primary whose powers all use a certain set of AT mods will have those AT mods relatively high - but this is not universally true.

The best example of this is Dominators. Although Dominators have a control primary and a damage secondary, their control mod is lower than a Controller's, and their melee and ranged damage mods are significantly higher than a Corruptor's, even though Corruptors have ranged damage as their primary.

AT mods and primary/secondary are two tools that the developers can use to balance ATs. They are frequently both used toward the same effect, but they are independent.

While I disagree with the OPs reasoning - AT mods are a good thing - I definately agree with him that Corruptor's /Traps needs a buff. With the old poison trap, the set was roughly balanced overall. Much like /Psi Dominators, it was a bunch of weak powers being compensated for by one overpowered one. Unlike /Psi, when /Traps' overpowered power got nerfed, the rest didn't get buffed

Yes, you did and are missing something: the fact that all of this is entirely expected, a natural consequence of porting the set to Defenders without any changes to the powers themselves, and not in any way noteworthy or worth complaining about.

I will agree that Corruptor Traps could use some help - but if the goal is to help Corruptors specifically, the appropriate method would seem to be making Time Bomb more usable, as it and Trip Mine are the two Traps powers that are naturally better for Corruptors due to their higher AT damage mod. I for one would love to see a version of Time Bomb that is not largely useless.

As for PGT, it had one problem that was fixed two times, and the unnecessary fix wasn't rolled back after the necessary fix was applied. Merely returning it to its former tick rate for its chance to induce vomiting would make it an entirely adequate soft control power without reviving the proc-bomb issues.

This just in: tankers have higher resist and defense values than scrappers! Angry scrappers take to the streets demanding fair treatment!

Actually, the only point is that why is Corr sharing the same debuff/buff value as Mastermind? Endurance cost is adjusted (finally) but what about the buff/debuff values?

If Defenders are getting what they "deserve" (due to AT modifier), then Corruptor is not getting what they deserve because the value is the same as Mastermind's. Either MM's value is too high (then you have to argue that Trap is over-performing, which is another topic) or Corr's value is too low.


That's where I am getting at. Of course I know Defender should debuff/buff better than Corr, just like Corr should buff/debuff better than MM.

I am annoyed because I "was" under the impression that Corr Trap will never get buffed because it is all based on "Pet" values (except for Web Grenade since I don't believe it's a "pet"). Well, obviously the dev has proven that notion wrong. Trap's debuff/buff values CAN be adjusted accordingly to AT, which means Corr should be moved up or MM should be moved down. Not that I want MM's version to get nerfed but it is bitter to know that when it comes to Defender, AT Modifier matters (well, for most part) but Corr's Modifier doesn't.


I am just "annoyed". It's not to the point of breaking this game. The same thing with Conserve Power. I've voted this power as one of the worst (due to over-lapping with Endurance Drain and 600s recharge) and it's funny that when Stalker fans say /Elec Armor sucks, it doesn't matter but when it gets ported to Tanker/Scrapper, it matters. That's all.

At least Brute's Claw is getting its own version.