Arctic Air is NOT a stealth AoE. It is a significant control aura -- Slow, Confuse and "Afraid." It uses a LOT of endurance because it is very effective when slotted up. Max slot for EndRdx and Confuse, and it mitigates about 70% of the damage from foes in the area. They run slowly, try to run out of the area, then become briefly confused, turn around and maybe attack another foe, maybe just run around. It is as though they are really "confused." On my Ice/Storm, I love the combo of AA and Steamy Mist. Whether to take AA or Shiver depends on whether you want to be mostly in melee or in range. Most folks don't take both, but that's an option, too.
Chilblain is more of a single target damage power in low levels -- I slotted it like a damage power. Still, Ice is a very low damage set, and is painful to solo. Frostbite is crappy damage and it's not worth slotting for damage. I think Procs actually net more damage. Also, because the -knockback in Frostbite conflicts with Ice Slick, I didn't take it until late (level 30), because I needed the -knockback for Tornado. Flash Freeze is the most frequently skipped power in the Ice set, as on teams, sleeps are usually broken quickly.
I have not played the Cold set, but I understand that Fog is similar to Steamy Mist, and Sleet is similar to Freezing Rain. Think about slotting up Fog for Resists, and the damage in Freezing Rain/Sleet is so small that it is clearly not worth slotting for damage -- slot for Recharge and debuffs.
You have invested a lot in Leadership -- I would prefer going for the APP sets to get a little damage in the build. The Ice APP has two AoEs and a nice single target blast.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Heat loss at 41? Whats the hold up? Get it and slot it ASAP. And yes you want benumb. I agree with Local on the slotting on sleet and pretty much the rest of his post too.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
Arctic Air is NOT a stealth AoE. It is a significant control aura -- Slow, Confuse and "Afraid." It uses a LOT of endurance because it is very effective when slotted up. Max slot for EndRdx and Confuse, and it mitigates about 70% of the damage from foes in the area. They run slowly, try to run out of the area, then become briefly confused, turn around and maybe attack another foe, maybe just run around. It is as though they are really "confused." On my Ice/Storm, I love the combo of AA and Steamy Mist. Whether to take AA or Shiver depends on whether you want to be mostly in melee or in range. Most folks don't take both, but that's an option, too.
Chilblain is more of a single target damage power in low levels -- I slotted it like a damage power. Still, Ice is a very low damage set, and is painful to solo. Frostbite is crappy damage and it's not worth slotting for damage. I think Procs actually net more damage. Also, because the -knockback in Frostbite conflicts with Ice Slick, I didn't take it until late (level 30), because I needed the -knockback for Tornado. Flash Freeze is the most frequently skipped power in the Ice set, as on teams, sleeps are usually broken quickly. I have not played the Cold set, but I understand that Fog is similar to Steamy Mist, and Sleet is similar to Freezing Rain. Think about slotting up Fog for Resists, and the damage in Freezing Rain/Sleet is so small that it is clearly not worth slotting for damage -- slot for Recharge and debuffs. You have invested a lot in Leadership -- I would prefer going for the APP sets to get a little damage in the build. The Ice APP has two AoEs and a nice single target blast. |
I goofed and missed that it's a -stealth component in Arctic Air. I looked at it in mids and the - is in the line above :P Since you've played ice I'll take your word for it and 6 slot with Coercive and see how I like it. It's a cheap purple set and I already have most of it in base.
Still gonna pass on Chilblain, but I'm looking at the fire APP to take care of damage.
I don't see Frostbite being of much use on this build because of reasons you mentioned, and with a cold secondary and Sleet, even less. I may pull it out and bring Chilblain back. I'm only taking it now for the recharge.
On my cold/sonic I slotted Pacing in Sleet, this has worked fine for me. I may look at accurate defense debuffs as well. I was messing with recharge at the time and wasn't paying attention. Yeah, I know :P I may try to get a set of Shield Breaker, but after having just checked, there's not a triple to be had at WWs. Not that I can even roll it yet, lol.
Is slotting resist in Arctic Fog gonna be that much better than defense? I did fit 2 IO resist in, but was hoping to get another end redux in there as well.
As of now, my concern is if I'm gonna have end issues with this build. I did slot some redux in a few things, and I'm hoping that will take care of most of it. I don't know if the recharge on the troller version of Heat Loss is gonna be the same as a defender, but it's about 140 on this build with current mids.
Anyhow, thanks for the help, and maybe take a look at a different build I put together. Again I'm just messing with sets trying to find a nice balance of set bonuses.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Kristranna: Level 50 Science Controller
Primary Power Set: Ice Control
Secondary Power Set: Cold Domination
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery
Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Block of Ice UbrkCons-Hold:50(A), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg:50(3), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg:50(19), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg:50(33), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold:50(33)
Level 1: Infrigidate P'ngTtl-Acc/Slow:50(A), P'ngTtl-Dmg/Slow:50(3), P'ngTtl--Rchg%:50(11), P'ngTtl-Acc/EndRdx:50(25), P'ngTtl-Rng/Slow:50(36), P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow:50(37)
Level 2: Ice Shield LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(9), DefBuff-I:50(9)
Level 4: Frostbite GravAnch-Immob:50(A), GravAnch-Immob/Rchg:50(5), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg:50(5), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg:50(19), GravAnch-Immob/EndRdx:50(33)
Level 6: Arctic Air CoPers-Conf:50(A), CoPers-Conf/Rchg:50(7), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg:50(7), CoPers-Acc/Rchg:50(13), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx:50(25), CoPers-Conf%:50(46)
Level 8: Hurdle Jump-I:50(A)
Level 10: Assault EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(11)
Level 12: Glacial Shield LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(13), DefBuff-I:50(15)
Level 14: Ice Slick RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(15), RechRdx-I:50(40)
Level 16: Health Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A), Numna-Heal:50(17), Heal-I:50(17)
Level 18: Combat Jumping LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A)
Level 20: Stamina EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(21), P'Shift-End%:50(21)
Level 22: Arctic Fog LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(23), ResDam-I:50(23), ResDam-I:50(45)
Level 24: Super Jump Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-ResKB:50(31), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(43)
Level 26: Glacier Lock-Acc/Hold:50(A), Lock-Acc/Rchg:50(27), Lock-Rchg/Hold:50(27), Lock-%Hold:50(31), Lock-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(34), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold:50(34)
Level 28: Hasten RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(29), RechRdx-I:50(29)
Level 30: Super Speed Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(31)
Level 32: Jack Frost ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg:30(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg:50(34), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx:50(36), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(37), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg:50(37)
Level 35: Acrobatics EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(36)
Level 38: Sleet AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx:30(A), AnWeak-DefDeb:30(39), AnWeak-Acc/DefDeb:30(39), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg:30(39), AnWeak-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg:30(40), Achilles-ResDeb%:20(40)
Level 41: Heat Loss Efficacy-EndMod:50(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:50(42), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(42), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg:50(42), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc:50(43), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx:50(43)
Level 44: Fire Blast Decim-Acc/Dmg:40(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx:40(45), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:40(45), Decim-Dmg/Rchg:40(46), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:40(46)
Level 47: Fire Ball Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng:50(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(50)
Level 49: Benumb RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(50), Acc-I:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint Clrty-Stlth:50(A)
Level 2: Rest Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
| Do not modify anything below this line! |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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@MARTy McFly
Quote:
I said in my first post, slotting wasn't right due to looking for set bonuses, I should have said power choices and slotting. Sleet now has an acc def debuff set. As for Benumb, I only questioned it because others have brought this up on how useful it is to a troller. I took it on my second build. I do have it on my cold/sonic def and like it.
|
Originally Posted by MentalMaden
Heat loss at 41? Whats the hold up? Get it and slot it ASAP. And yes you want benumb. I agree with Local on the slotting on sleet and pretty much the rest of his post too.
|
@MARTy McFly
I don't see the need for acro in most circumstances nowadays in PvE anymore with all the IOs that could help with KB etc.
Editing as I'm typing- ahh so the order isn't the end order you're just looking at the bonuses. Gotcha.
I can't remember but is there enough end reduction in the purple confuse set? You need to be careful with AA, its fairly end heavy.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by MentalMaden
I don't see the need for acro in most circumstances nowadays in PvE anymore with all the IOs that could help with KB etc.
Editing as I'm typing- ahh so the order isn't the end order you're just looking at the bonuses. Gotcha. I can't remember but is there enough end reduction in the purple confuse set? You need to be careful with AA, its fairly end heavy. |
Well acro is 8 and I put one BotZ resKB in there to get me to 12, for those rare times when I do KHTF. I may try to build this with fly and see how it goes.
I'm a bit worried about end on this build and may pull the proc out of AA in favor of an end redux. I was just trying to take advantage of the defense.
@MARTy McFly
pull the proc out of AA in favor of an end redux
If you have to use the purple set, that's a good idea. Personally, if I'm looking at an efficient build I'd frankenslot it for confuse and end make sure I've maxed end then maybe a proc or two. While the purple bonuses are teh sexxeh, I think we're sometimes blinded to just want them without looking at the returns. (Not saying that's what you're doing...I'm just as guilty at times)
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
Quote:
I'm trying to remember what I have in AA, but I know that I frankenslotted to get max Confuse and nearly max EndRdx, plus 2 procs. It is very effective and I can run it pretty much all the time. The max confuse really helps the confuse have more of an impact. Max slotting the power for its effective use is more important than the bonuses in my opinion.|
Originally Posted by MentalMaden
pull the proc out of AA in favor of an end redux
If you have to use the purple set, that's a good idea. Personally, if I'm looking at an efficient build I'd frankenslot it for confuse and end make sure I've maxed end then maybe a proc or two. While the purple bonuses are teh sexxeh, I think we're sometimes blinded to just want them without looking at the returns. (Not saying that's what you're doing...I'm just as guilty at times) |
Look at the numbers on Arctic Fog. It they are substantially the same as Steamy Mist, then I found that I got more benefit slotting for decent resistance for Energy, Cold and Fire, than for a small amount of general defense. Of course, if you already have high defense, then a little bit more can make a large difference.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
I'm trying to remember what I have in AA, but I know that I frankenslotted to get max Confuse and nearly max EndRdx, plus 2 procs. It is very effective and I can run it pretty much all the time. The max confuse really helps the confuse have more of an impact. Max slotting the power for its effective use is more important than the bonuses in my opinion.
Look at the numbers on Arctic Fog. It they are substantially the same as Steamy Mist, then I found that I got more benefit slotting for decent resistance for Energy, Cold and Fire, than for a small amount of general defense. Of course, if you already have high defense, then a little bit more can make a large difference. |
Just wondering, is AA an auto hit power, or is the fact that these are procs negate the need for acc? Maybe your acc set bonuses make up for this? I haven't used procs in a power like this so I'm ignorant, lol
@MARTy McFly
Quote:
Arctic Air is autohit.
|
Originally Posted by Bubblerella
Just wondering, is AA an auto hit power, or is the fact that these are procs negate the need for acc?
|
Quote:
Well now, my eyes have been opened on why you'd frankenslot. Told you I don't know anything about ice :P I'm gonna go back and try a build with fly and some procs in AA.|
Originally Posted by hilker
|
All good info, tyvm!
@MARTy McFly
Arctic Air begs for the Contagious Confusion proc. Frankenslotting AA with 2 endurance reducers, 2 Confuse durations, and a Contagious Confusion makes AA extremely powerful. You can also add a damage proc if you want.
Quote:
Hmm, I guess there's lots of ways you could go on this. |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Arctic Air begs for the Contagious Confusion proc. Frankenslotting AA with 2 endurance reducers, 2 Confuse durations, and a Contagious Confusion makes AA extremely powerful. You can also add a damage proc if you want.
|
2 Coercive, the proc and conf/endrdx, 2 conf IOs, 2 endrdx.
That would also get an extra 4% recovery. Or since you'd be hitting 97.69 without the proc would it be better to slot a damage proc instead.
I know for sure I'll be doing something like this.
Thanks again everyone!
@MARTy McFly
I finally got home so I could look at my slotting for Arctic Air:
Coersive Persuasion: End/Confuse and Contageous Confusion proc
End/Conf from Malaise and Perplex and Cacaphony, and the Chance for Psi Damage from Malaise. That easily caps EndRdx and Confuse, with the two procs. I could have replaced the Cacaphony with a Chance for Energy Damage from the same set, but that would have reduced the EndRdx and Confuse to the low 80%, and I wanted max for those two attributes.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
Quote:
Wow, nice info. Local man to the rescue!
|
Originally Posted by Local_Man
I finally got home so I could look at my slotting:
Coersive Persuasion: End/Confuse and Contageous Confusion proc End/Conf from Malaise and Perplex and Cacaphony, and the Chance for Psi Damage from Malaise. That easily caps EndRdx and Confuse, with the two procs. I could have replaced the Cacaphony with a Chance for Energy Damage from the same set, but that would have reduced the EndRdx and Confuse to the low 80%, and I wanted max for those two attributes. |
@MARTy McFly
I'm thinking arctic air+contagious proc+world of confusion would be a rather confusing experience for enemies. All with no effort either.
Hmmm, that's an interesting idea -- World of Confusion. I have the Ice APP on my Ice/Storm currently, mostly for Hibernate as a "panic button" power (since Stormies don't have a self-heal or Endurance Recovery) and for the AoE damage. I might actually have to try a second build to try that out.
LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control
I've never used Contagious Confusion in AA. I've just never got around to it. Do the proc bursts from CConf last as long as they do when generated from any other power?
Thanks,
Lewis
Random AT Generation!
"I remember... the Alamo." -- Pee-wee Herman
"Oh don't worry. I always leave things to the last moment." -- The Doctor
"Telescopes are time machines." -- Carl Sagan
I believe it is a 10 sec duration vs even cons.
I've been messing with this a bit and have a rough draft for my new troller. This is a PvE team build.
I passed on Arctic Air since Arctic Fog has the stealt component I want without aggro ( correct me if I wrong on that). I plan on staying out PBAoE as well.
I want Ice Slick and Sleet up asap on teams, and I'm pretty happy with the recharge on
both.
Should I dump Chillblain for Benumb? I don't see the power as much use on teams but Benumb usefull on AVs.
The slotting isn't right I know, was just looking for the recharge as of now.
I tried Ice a long time back and deleted, but since we're getting cold as a secondary I thought I'd give it another shot. Any help is welcome.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Kristranna: Level 50 Science Controller
Primary Power Set: Ice Control
Secondary Power Set: Cold Domination
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Hero Profile:
------------
Level 1: Block of Ice Decim-Acc/Dmg:40(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx:40(3), Decim-Dmg/Rchg:40(7), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:40(29), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:40(43)
Level 1: Infrigidate TmpRdns-Acc/Slow:50(A), TmpRdns-Dmg/Slow:50(5), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx:50(9), TmpRdns-Rng/Slow:50(39), TmpRdns-Acc/Dmg/Slow:50(43)
Level 2: Frostbite Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(3), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(7), Posi-Dmg/Rng:50(40), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(40)
Level 4: Ice Shield LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(5), DefBuff-I:50(13)
Level 6: Chilblain GravAnch-Immob:50(A), GravAnch-Immob/Rchg:50(9), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg:50(15), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg:50(29), GravAnch-Immob/EndRdx:50(34)
Level 8: Hurdle Jump-I:50(A)
Level 10: Shiver TmpRdns-Acc/Slow:50(A), TmpRdns-Dmg/Slow:50(11), TmpRdns-Acc/EndRdx:50(11), TmpRdns-Acc/Dmg/Slow:50(17), TmpRdns-Rng/Slow:50(37)
Level 12: Ice Slick RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(13), RechRdx-I:50(43)
Level 14: Health Heal-I:50(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(15), Numna-Heal:50(17)
Level 16: Combat Jumping LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(46)
Level 18: Flash Freeze FtnHyp-Sleep:50(A), FtnHyp-Sleep/Rchg:50(19), FtnHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg:50(19), FtnHyp-Acc/Rchg:50(21), FtnHyp-Sleep/EndRdx:50(37)
Level 20: Arctic Fog LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(21), DefBuff-I:50(25)
Level 22: Stamina EndMod-I:50(A), EndMod-I:50(23), P'Shift-End%:50(23)
Level 24: Super Jump Zephyr-Travel:50(A), Zephyr-ResKB:50(25), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx:50(31)
Level 26: Glacier UbrkCons-Hold:50(A), UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg:50(27), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg:50(27), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg:50(34), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold:50(40)
Level 28: Acrobatics EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(45)
Level 30: Hasten RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(31), RechRdx-I:50(31)
Level 32: Jack Frost ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg:50(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg:50(33), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(33), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg:50(34)
Level 35: Sleet Posi-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:50(36), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:50(36), Posi-Dmg/Rng:50(36), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(37), Achilles-ResDeb%:20(45)
Level 38: Maneuvers LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(39), DefBuff-I:50(39)
Level 41: Heat Loss Efficacy-EndMod:50(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg:50(42), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg:50(42), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg:50(42), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc:50(46), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx:50(46)
Level 44: Assault EndRdx-I:50(A), EndRdx-I:50(45)
Level 47: Tactics AdjTgt-ToHit:50(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg:50(48), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg:50(48), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg:50(48), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx:50(50)
Level 49: Glacial Shield LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(50), DefBuff-I:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint Clrty-Stlth:50(A)
Level 2: Rest Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
| Do not modify anything below this line! |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
@MARTy McFly