well, it really depends on how it's built and how many toggles your going to be running, but it's also a great recovery tool against drainers like sappers and carnies and such, i like to take it anyways, as it makes a great AoE when used after SD as'well... but also with all of them you can pretty much forego endred sloting if you so choose and still run with sprint always on ect...
well resilience is probablly the second weakest in the set next to the self-rez power... it makes a nice mule and becomes a'bit helpful when stacked with Tough from the fighting pool, but the disorient protection in it is overkill since you get it in your lvl 16 toggle +regen/status pro power aswell, this is the one power in the regen set that needs a rework over by the dev's, considering how meanial it actually is, still any mitigation is better than none at all, but it can be put off till whenever theres no better power choice
Ahh..I did not realize that Intigration also gave Disorient protection, and since that was the main reason I was taking Resilience I may drop it from my build entirely which will give me a spot for Dark Consumption after all I guess :P
I think the only toggle I'm really running though is Intigration so toggles shouldn't really make up an issue for any end problems I might have.
Resilience is a lvl 49 power at best. The one thing going for it is if you use a wakie, you won't need a breakfree to kill the stun effect. And it cuts down the stun lenght of romi's rez in ITF. You could use it as a set mule for the res/def IO if you don't take tough. Then again, you can also put that in MOG or reconstruction. If you happen to be short on slots and have every power you want, by all means, take it for the mule.
If you have stamina and QR, dark consumption is almost pointless as a recovery tool in most cases. As someone has said already, its a decent attack right after soul drain. I've hit 200 vs lvl 52 slammer bosses (numbers buffed with soul drain and fulcrum and no dmg slots). It takes pbaoe sets with some very useful bonuses thus opening up IO build options. That's how I see it anyway.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
That's a pretty interesting way to look at Resilience, and looking at my power selection there's not really anything else I need or feel that I'm missing, so I might as well take it at 49 I suppose.
About Dark Consumption, I guess I could slot it as an attack but the guides I looked at for DM have said that the long recharge makes slotting it as an attack pretty pointless, though they may have been talking about SOs and generic IOs and not sets. I could take Shadow Punch instead but I'm not sure if that would be overkill or not seeing as I have about 4 other single target attacks (Smite, AS, Siphon Life, and Midnight Grasp) and I'll also have Dark Blast by 44. I could take Hover instead of AS I guess and take Shadow Punch but as a Scrapper I don't know when I'd ever utilize Hover.
I guess I'll post my build just so you know where I'm coming from but I've only done my power selection so far, haven't gotten into slots yet.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 48 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Darkness Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fast Healing -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Shadow Maul -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Reconstruction -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Air Superiority -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Quick Recovery -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Fly -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Integration -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Dark Consumption -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Dull Pain -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Instant Healing -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Touch of Fear -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Moment of Glory -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Torrent -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Dark Blast -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Tenebrous Tentacles -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Resilience -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Sorry for not having any color coding to make it easier to read but I can't get it to post colors properly for some reason.
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I don't see a problem with the powers. Just please tell me you aren't waiting that late for dull pain. That's going to hurt.
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Originally Posted by Neg_rogue
That's a pretty interesting way to look at Resilience, and looking at my power selection there's not really anything else I need or feel that I'm missing, so I might as well take it at 49 I suppose.
About Dark Consumption, I guess I could slot it as an attack but the guides I looked at for DM have said that the long recharge makes slotting it as an attack pretty pointless, though they may have been talking about SOs and generic IOs and not sets. I could take Shadow Punch instead but I'm not sure if that would be overkill or not seeing as I have about 4 other single target attacks (Smite, AS, Siphon Life, and Midnight Grasp) and I'll also have Dark Blast by 44. I could take Hover instead of AS I guess and take Shadow Punch but as a Scrapper I don't know when I'd ever utilize Hover. I guess I'll post my build just so you know where I'm coming from but I've only done my power selection so far, haven't gotten into slots yet. Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 48 Magic Scrapper Primary Power Set: Dark Melee Secondary Power Set: Regeneration Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Fitness Ancillary Pool: Darkness Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Smite -- Empty(A) Level 1: Fast Healing -- Empty(A) Level 2: Shadow Maul -- Empty(A) Level 4: Reconstruction -- Empty(A) Level 6: Hasten -- Empty(A) Level 8: Siphon Life -- Empty(A) Level 10: Air Superiority -- Empty(A) Level 12: Quick Recovery -- Empty(A) Level 14: Fly -- Empty(A) Level 16: Integration -- Empty(A) Level 18: Dark Consumption -- Empty(A) Level 20: Swift -- Empty(A) Level 22: Dull Pain -- Empty(A) Level 24: Health -- Empty(A) Level 26: Soul Drain -- Empty(A) Level 28: Instant Healing -- Empty(A) Level 30: Stamina -- Empty(A) Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- Empty(A) Level 35: Touch of Fear -- Empty(A) Level 38: Moment of Glory -- Empty(A) Level 41: Torrent -- Empty(A) Level 44: Dark Blast -- Empty(A) Level 47: Tenebrous Tentacles -- Empty(A) Level 49: Resilience -- Empty(A) ------------ Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 1: Critical Hit Sorry for not having any color coding to make it easier to read but I can't get it to post colors properly for some reason. |
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
I see your point. I could swap it with Dark Consumption which would put it at 18. I don't really see being able to take it much earlier than that unless I push Hasten back later in the build which I don't really want to do.
Actually...I guess I could...hmmmmmm
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.401
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 48 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Regeneration
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Darkness Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Fast Healing -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Shadow Maul -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Reconstruction -- Empty(A)
Level 6: Air Superiority -- Empty(A)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- Empty(A)
Level 10: Dull Pain -- Empty(A)
Level 12: Quick Recovery -- Empty(A)
Level 14: Fly -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Integration -- Empty(A)
Level 18: Hasten -- Empty(A)
Level 20: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Stamina -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- Empty(A)
Level 28: Instant Healing -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Dark Consumption -- Empty(A)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- Empty(A)
Level 35: Touch of Fear -- Empty(A)
Level 38: Moment of Glory -- Empty(A)
Level 41: Torrent -- Empty(A)
Level 44: Dark Blast -- Empty(A)
Level 47: Tenebrous Tentacles -- Empty(A)
Level 49: Resilience -- Empty(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
That a bit better? :P
Actually a couple of my friends suggested I do skip Stamina on this character and they sounded pretty convincing tbh xD
I was actually looking at what to replace it with and honestly the Presence pool looks pretty intriguing. I've never ever really given this pool a second look but the prospect of having a 2nd fear to stack with ToF and an AoE fear just sound very cool, especially since it fits rather well thematically with my character.
Any thoughts? Does this sound decent or completely terrible?
Quote:
The Presence pool is rather disgustingly bad, especially with the Scrapper numbers. The only build I would even dream of recommending it for is a Dark/Dark that took Cloak of Fear.|
Originally Posted by Neg_rogue
Actually a couple of my friends suggested I do skip Stamina on this character and they sounded pretty convincing tbh xD
I was actually looking at what to replace it with and honestly the Presence pool looks pretty intriguing. I've never ever really given this pool a second look but the prospect of having a 2nd fear to stack with ToF and an AoE fear just sound very cool, especially since it fits rather well thematically with my character. Any thoughts? Does this sound decent or completely terrible? |
Honestly, from a pure QoL standpoint, you could do perfectly fine with DC instead of Stamina, especially if you're planning on being surrounded most of the time. If you don't plan on having numerous enemies around you most of the time, you're better off with Stamina, especially considering the QoL improvements from Hurdle/Swift.
As to what pool to replace Fitness with, I wouldn't bother finding one. There are plenty of choices that you could use from your primary and secondary. Just go with Speed, Leaping/Flight, and Fighting. You could always drop in Leadership for extra support and personal benefits, but those cost a bit and you might want Fitness back (which is problematic since it would be your 4th choice).
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| As to what pool to replace Fitness with, I wouldn't bother finding one. |
Quote:
| Just go with Speed, Leaping/Flight, and Fighting. |
actually, to clairify Umbral ... your answer is the Fighting pool
Quote:
Well the thing is though the reason I'm not really thinking Stamina is necessary for me is because with the powers I picked in my above build the only toggle I really have is Integration. If I were to drop Stamina and replace it with toggles like tough/weave or assault/tactics I'm increasing my end usage while simultaneously decreasing my end recovery which seems a little counter-productive.|
Originally Posted by Umbral_NA
The Presence pool is rather disgustingly bad, especially with the Scrapper numbers. The only build I would even dream of recommending it for is a Dark/Dark that took Cloak of Fear.
Honestly, from a pure QoL standpoint, you could do perfectly fine with DC instead of Stamina, especially if you're planning on being surrounded most of the time. If you don't plan on having numerous enemies around you most of the time, you're better off with Stamina, especially considering the QoL improvements from Hurdle/Swift. As to what pool to replace Fitness with, I wouldn't bother finding one. There are plenty of choices that you could use from your primary and secondary. Just go with Speed, Leaping/Flight, and Fighting. You could always drop in Leadership for extra support and personal benefits, but those cost a bit and you might want Fitness back (which is problematic since it would be your 4th choice). |
Plus, what aspect about stacking fears on a boss or having an AoE fear is bad? No offense, but just saying "it's bad don't use it" isn't really enough evidence for me to not to want to pick it. So basically I'd like to know WHY it's bad, because to me it sounds interesting.
Quote:
well, it's more to the point that controller'ish powers lacking a damage component are of minimal to counter-productive use to scrappers, a scrappers damage output is its primary focus, when you throw in non-damageing attacks, your prolonging the fight more so than is needed, where you could be eliminateing the target, this can get a little hazey when it involves the aspects of survival vs. "DPS" ... but in general the best mitigation for a scrapper is the speed at which they eliminate the target ... a dead enemy can't hurt you
| Plus, what aspect about stacking fears on a boss or having an AoE fear is bad? No offense, but just saying "it's bad don't use it" isn't really enough evidence for me to not to want to pick it. So basically I'd like to know WHY it's bad, because to me it sounds interesting. |
Quote:
If you're planning on being surrounded most of the time, Dark Consumption provides more end/sec than Stamina does. It's not a reduction in net end/sec, it's actually a gain. Allowing yourself to spend some of that gain (and the basic surplus you should already be running) on some additional survivability just makes sense.|
Originally Posted by Neg_rogue
Well the thing is though the reason I'm not really thinking Stamina is necessary for me is because with the powers I picked in my above build the only toggle I really have is Integration. If I were to drop Stamina and replace it with toggles like tough/weave or assault/tactics I'm increasing my end usage while simultaneously decreasing my end recovery which seems a little counter-productive.
|
Quote:
| Plus, what aspect about stacking fears on a boss or having an AoE fear is bad? No offense, but just saying "it's bad don't use it" isn't really enough evidence for me to not to want to pick it. So basically I'd like to know WHY it's bad, because to me it sounds interesting. |
Compound it with the facts that you'd only be able to affect minions and you can already hit a boss with 2 quick applications of Touch of Fear (which actually stacks without slotting, is incredibly accurate, and has a huge debuff for targets it's not crippling with the fear) and it only gets worse. The only person I would ever consider recommending Invoke Panic to would be someone that already has an AoE Fear that they can stack it with (re: a */Dark) so that it actually acts as an AoE control for more than just minions.
Quote:
Yeah, I completely missed that he was eschewing the Fighting pool. I just never occurs to me any more that a Scrapper, much less a */regen, would avoid that awesome pool of awesomeness. It's like not taking Leaping or Flight. The idea never occurs to me.
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Originally Posted by Morbid_Star
actually, to clairify Umbral ... your answer is the Fighting pool
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Quote:
Eh, I don't see how 17.6% S/L resistance and 5.87% defense (ED capped) is considered "awesomeness", especially since a lot of people consider tough/weave to be pretty meaningless now unless you can stack it with other resistance/defense powers. Plus I have enough single target attacks in my build that boxing will largely be a completely wasted power choice, which I don't like to do...|
Originally Posted by Umbral_NA
Yeah, I completely missed that he was eschewing the Fighting pool. I just never occurs to me any more that a Scrapper, much less a */regen, would avoid that awesome pool of awesomeness. It's like not taking Leaping or Flight. The idea never occurs to me.
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Might as well take them though I guess, since my End recovery is about 2 end/sec over my end drain with integration, tough, and weave toggled.
/shrug
Quote:
Look at what else you're getting from your power pools. Compare it to what you're getting from Fighting (especially considering that it's damage mitigation that allows your already impressive damage recovery capabilities to act upon a smaller pool of incoming damage, making it much more effective) and you'll see why it's considered "awesomeness". Now, add in what the Fighting pool also allows you to slot (Boxing is a great set mule), and it becomes even better.
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Originally Posted by Neg_rogue
Eh, I don't see how 17.6% S/L resistance and 5.87% defense (ED capped) is considered "awesomeness"
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Quote:
I don't really agree with using an attack or click power you never really plan to use as a "set mule". Auto or toggle powers sure because you'll probably be using them alot, but if I'm not planning to use Boxing 1) taking it in the first place seems like a total waste of a power choice, 2) putting precious enhancement slots into it just for set bonus seems that much more of a waste.|
Originally Posted by Umbral_NA
Look at what else you're getting from your power pools. Compare it to what you're getting from Fighting (especially considering that it's damage mitigation that allows your already impressive damage recovery capabilities to act upon a smaller pool of incoming damage, making it much more effective) and you'll see why it's considered "awesomeness". Now, add in what the Fighting pool also allows you to slot (Boxing is a great set mule), and it becomes even better.
|
*shrug*. Taking the Fighting pool just doesn't feel "right" to me for some reason...
Quote:
I agree with you about the whole set mule thing and having to take boxing/kick to get to tough and weave. However, weave stacked with other set bonuses helps a lot. I have two regens. One with fighting and one without fighting. The one with fighting can stand and fight more due to the stacked defense. Its not super high but enough for attacks to miss for regen to do its job. The other regen depends on intensive recharge for clicking heals. |
Originally Posted by Neg_rogue
I don't really agree with using an attack or click power you never really plan to use as a "set mule". Auto or toggle powers sure because you'll probably be using them alot, but if I'm not planning to use Boxing 1) taking it in the first place seems like a total waste of a power choice, 2) putting precious enhancement slots into it just for set bonus seems that much more of a waste.
*shrug*. Taking the Fighting pool just doesn't feel "right" to me for some reason... |
I do respecs every issue and try different concepts. So far, the fighting pool concept has been the most surviveable. I still loath adding that pool due to the need for kick/boxing. But I can't deny the fact that it helps a lot. Maybe i16 will give scrappers a shadow meld clone and I won't have to touch that dreaded pool ever again.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
I don't know something about jumping into a spawn, hitting Invoke Panic then hitting one boss with ToF and the other with Intimidate just sounded really cool to me, but as someone else pointed out Scrappers aren't Controllers. It probably just had more to do with me never seeing a use for the presence pool and finally seeing a use for it that would make me a unique snowflake :P
Quote:
By the time you did all that, half of the mob could have been dead using the same amount of endurance. That idea sounds good but wouldn't perform the way you think it would.|
Originally Posted by Neg_rogue
I don't know something about jumping into a spawn, hitting Invoke Panic then hitting one boss with ToF and the other with Intimidate just sounded really cool to me, but as someone else pointed out Scrappers aren't Controllers. It probably just had more to do with me never seeing a use for the presence pool and finally seeing a use for it that would make me a unique snowflake :P
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Kind of reminds me of how I thought my kin/dark defender could drop any mob with Fulcrum Shift +Power Build Up + Black Star. Reading how the powers work made it seem like a good idea but it didn't turn out the way I pictured it. Instead of dropping the mob, they droped to about half HP. At least their to hit would be in crapper so I wouldn't get killed from it. I waited 41 non PLed levels for this combo to be dissapointed.
The point is that it "looks" like a good idea but in practice, it isn't. Not to mention the slots you would have to put into this for it to even be semi effective vs "flipping out a killing them" making them fear for their lives anyway.
If you are adament about trying this. Do it on a 2nd build slotted with SOs or something instead of your endgame build so you will see for yourself and at the same time, won't be hurt by it.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
Well, as my friends have told me: "You'll have more fun playing a character you build around what you think is cool rather than a character that is built around 'the best' way to do something".
My experience with using Consume on a Fire Tanker made me feel really negative about the idea of Dark Consumption as a replacement for Stamina. But I admit my bad experience came between the application of ED and set bonuses.
Anybody tried it as a replacement for Stamina and found it works for them? Did you have a lot of toggles? How much +Recharge or other set bonuses did you have?
Quote:
Well keep in mind DM/Regen only gets one toggle from the primary/secondary sets, and Regen also offers QR which has 5% higher base recovery than stamina, so I think I'd do alright.
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Originally Posted by Space_Goat
My experience with using Consume on a Fire Tanker made me feel really negative about the idea of Dark Consumption as a replacement for Stamina. But I admit my bad experience came between the application of ED and set bonuses.
Anybody tried it as a replacement for Stamina and found it works for them? Did you have a lot of toggles? How much +Recharge or other set bonuses did you have? |
Quote:
When was leveling my DM/regen (my first alt to 50), I didn't know anything about the fitness pool or understood the advantages of set bonuses. I was running intergration, sprint, stealth, tough, and weave. I got a lot of use out of dark consumption. At times, I would turn tough off to save endurance. I later respeced out of fighting and took fitness to see a difference. Later ended up respecing out of dark consumption.|
Originally Posted by Space_Goat
Anybody tried it as a replacement for Stamina and found it works for them? Did you have a lot of toggles? How much +Recharge or other set bonuses did you have?
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The good ol days of mission grinding and street hunting and not knowing what PL or farm meant.
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
Quote:
Weave, maybe. But I ALWAYS grab other powers and +defense IOs to stack Weave on. Tough doesn't need anything to stack on. It provides a significant increase in survivability right out of the box. If a lot of people see it as meaningless, a lot of people are wrong.|
Originally Posted by Neg_rogue
a lot of people consider tough/weave to be pretty meaningless now unless you can stack it with other resistance/defense powers.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Neg_rogue
Might as well take them though I guess, since my End recovery is about 2 end/sec over my end drain with integration, tough, and weave toggled.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Just a couple quick questions...
First, is it still a good idea to take dark consumption when I have QR and Stamina? Or perhaps taking Dark Consumption would make Stamina unnecessary instead? Having all 3 just seems like overkill to me, but maybe not. If so though I guess I'll drop Shadow Maul for it.
Also, how long can I put off Resilience? It seems the main reason to take it is more for the disorient resist, and although that particular type of mez has never really been one of my main concerns it's still nice to have. I think when I was just throwing powers together on Mids' I ended up taking it at like 41. I figured it was probably similar to some of the auto powers in Invulnerability so putting it off wouldn't be a big deal.
Anyway, thanks for any feedback.