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Samuel_Tow: Your avatar is... I think I like it
I guess word hasn't trickled down that Shields can be rock solid. Besides, the squishiest Scrapper secondaries still aren't actually squishy at level 50, particularly if the team has any buffs, or a Tanker, or some controls, or other people actually killing things. Am I wrong? I don't pick up group, so maybe there are a lot of sucky level 50 Shield Scrappers out there?
(Edit: In any case, based on hanging out too much in the scrapper forum, if I saw your broadcast, I'd read “unkillable damage machine looking for team”.)
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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We have such a warped view of this game.| unkillable damage machine looking for team |
Woot!
Be well, people of CoH.
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Yeah really.. I think the guy who gave the tells to the OP was probably trying to be nice ... we should be upset because he was being a bit too patronizing toward a weaker set.... but instead we're all thinking he was just an idiot who doesn't know the game.
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Originally Posted by BillZBubba
We have such a warped view of this game.
Woot! |
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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But... this is correct. | but instead we're all thinking he was just an idiot who doesn't know the game. |
Be well, people of CoH.
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Ha Ha, yes thats funny I can relate after hearing the "squishy" comments from some usually reliable build friends I passed but now I have completed all my "Good" toon so needed something to work on wth I made a BA/Shield the only Primary and Secondary I had not tried yet. I love that Brute... and agree using Mids I made a nice build with a good ballance of defense and damage as for the ITF she did as well as my Stoney and my Stoney is the S*** ! thats on the shield topic it all falls into the perfect team ballance mentality like for RSF you have to have a stoney a kin blah blah blah ,,,, I run 50 minute lrsf's and I don't care who you bring we had a rough team the other day things went bad it was a little ugly we finished in 1:26 lol |
Originally Posted by Neogumbercules
So I go to Cim and broadcast "level 50 fire/shield scrapper lf ITF"
I get a tell back from someone, and our conversation went something like this: "You shouldn't say Fire/Shield, you should just say level 50 scrap" "Why not?" "Because shield is squishy and people don't want them." "Not according to my being defense soft-capped to all positions. ""Just saying...help you find teams faster." "Ok. Well thanks. Good luck to you." Between my broadcast and this conversation happening I did get invited to a team just fine. I know /Shield when well built is anything but squishy, just thought it was an odd conversation. I thought people had kind of forgotten the "Shields is squishy" mantra. Oh and by the way, I solo'd several of the cysts on the second mission, and we completed the thing in 32 minutes. I didn't die once, and I don't really ever remember getting out of the green in terms of my HP. I'll chalk that up to a good tank and having a rad, a sonic, and a kin on the team, though. |
my rule is: I would rather have a non status quo toon played by a gamer that knows his toon and how it works than a dime a dozen toon run by someone just following a templete
and mashing buttons!
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Hmmm. Think I have my new team search comment for my DM/Shield.
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Originally Posted by Werner
unkillable damage machine looking for team
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I agree with Shred. Also I guess you people forget many people play with common IOs and SOs and shields isn't exactly rockin' the boat without some heavy IO'ing.
To be fair... everything sucks with just SOs.
Be well, people of CoH.
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Well, not forget exactly. But it does seem a little... foreign. Now, my Broad Sword/Shields is rocking just fine at 50 with only common IOs, SOs and frankenslotting, but Broad Sword definitely improves the survivability of Shields. So all of my experiences with Shields are either my own, which is extremely solid on a budget, or top tier builds on the forum. So while I know that in theory, Shields is and was intended to be one of the squishier sets, it's still difficult for me to think of it that way.
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
I agree with Shred. Also I guess you people forget many people play with common IOs and SOs and shields isn't exactly rockin' the boat without some heavy IO'ing.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Depends on your definition of sucks. I'm still convinced I could take down an AV no temps no insps with an SO only build on either Werner or Sergei. But it has become one among a million things that I'd like to do some day rather than something I'm actively working on.
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Originally Posted by BillZBubba
To be fair... everything sucks with just SOs.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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Well, think about it this way, Werner:|
Originally Posted by Werner
Well, not “forget” exactly. But it does seem a little... foreign. Now, my Broad Sword/Shields is rocking just fine at 50 with only common IOs, SOs and frankenslotting, but Broad Sword definitely improves the survivability of Shields. So all of my experiences with Shields are either my own, which is extremely solid on a budget, or top tier builds on the forum. So while I know that in theory, Shields is and was intended to be one of the squishier sets, it's still difficult for me to think of it that way.
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With the standard Shield toggles, Weave, and CJ all fully slotted, topped with a Steadfast IO you're looking at ~33% def. Between Deflection and Tough, 23.4% s/l res. If they have taken and slotted Grant Cover with just normal AD (no Membranes, 1 stack) they'd only have ~60.5% def resistance. True Grit would off up to +20% maxhp. Don't forget it has a taunt aura, too.
So take that against mobs that heavily debuff defense, deal heavy damage, and can crit. Probably not too bad solo, but on an ITF that is jam-packed with romans?
Ow.
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Hmmm, you're right. That could easily get sucktastic, couldn't it? |
Originally Posted by Sarrate
Well, think about it this way, Werner:
With the standard Shield toggles, Weave, and CJ all fully slotted, topped with a Steadfast IO you're looking at ~33% def. Between Deflection and Tough, 23.4% s/l res. If they have taken and slotted Grant Cover with just normal AD (no Membranes, 1 stack) they'd only have ~60.5% def resistance. True Grit would off up to +20% maxhp. Don't forget it has a taunt aura, too. So take that against mobs that heavily debuff defense, deal heavy damage, and can crit. Probably not too bad solo, but on an ITF that is jam-packed with romans? Ow. |
Oh, and on a vaguely related note, after the all scrapper ITF I was on, I can no longer claim that the Cimerorans have never defense debuffed Werner to death. They managed to do it early on the ITF, and like most Regen deaths, it was VERY fast, and happened while I was reaching to click on the power that would save me. I LOVE Regen deaths! But I learned the pattern after that, so no more problem the rest of the ITF, at least with defense debuffs. Rommie tore me apart a few times.
"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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I dunno, I kinda liked my claws/sr in her late 20s because I had 33.9% defense to melee and ranged from togles+passives+CJ slotted. That's quite playable imo.|
Originally Posted by BillZBubba
To be fair... everything sucks with just SOs.
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Shields have to wait a lot more for that level of defense.
And imo controllers don't suck with SOs
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But most players don't read the forums and many don't know what kind of performance /shields can achieve.|
Originally Posted by Werner
So while I know that in theory, Shields is and was intended to be one of the squishier sets, it's still difficult for me to think of it that way.
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I mean, the other day I invited an Archery Blaster (lvl 35 so he had Rain of Arrows) and I got two tells from the team asking why I invited a 'sucky arrow blaster'. Even the fact that he was decimating spawns with RoA+Fistful+etc didn't seem to change these two guys' opinion.
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and thats a reason not to bring someone on a team? doesn't speak too highly of your own toon if one weak link = fail
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
I agree with Shred. Also I guess you people forget many people play with common IOs and SOs and shields isn't exactly rockin' the boat without some heavy IO'ing.
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its funny though there was a time when thats all we had and it didn't seem to suck so bad when there was nothing better to compare to...
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Originally Posted by BillZBubba
To be fair... everything sucks with just SOs.
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I think that's the crux of the issue. I don't want to make fun of this particular guy that I met over the weekend, but he had a BS/DA in the 30's who couldn't solo his own mission. He didn't have the Fitness pool, so his END problems were rough. He also wasn't putting up his armors so he was squishier than the rad/rad I was running with him. |
Originally Posted by Kioshi
But most players don't read the forums and many don't know what kind of performance /shields can achieve.
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In this case, I had to explain to him a few basics so he could make a half-way decent scrapper after respec.
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True! But back then running laps around the storm palace was insta-suicide and I couldn't find spawns of level 54s when solo.
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Originally Posted by MsMisery
its funny though there was a time when thats all we had and it didn't seem to suck so bad when there was nothing better to compare to...
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Be well, people of CoH.
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But that makes sense. There's a difference between being new and not knowing the game's mechanics and offering help to someone that looks in need versus stating such and such sucks when it isn't a fact.|
Originally Posted by SpiderTeo_OC
I think that's the crux of the issue. I don't want to make fun of this particular guy that I met over the weekend, but he had a BS/DA in the 30's who couldn't solo his own mission. He didn't have the Fitness pool, so his END problems were rough. He also wasn't putting up his armors so he was squishier than the rad/rad I was running with him.
In this case, I had to explain to him a few basics so he could make a half-way decent scrapper after respec. |
Like stone armor. It sucks without granite. That's a fact.
Be well, people of CoH.
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No, that's not a reason. I was just agreeing with Shred that the player was just trying to give advice because some people consider Shields squishy.|
Originally Posted by MsMisery
and thats a reason not to bring someone on a team? doesn't speak too highly of your own toon if one weak link = fail
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Hell back when I was new people were asking why I was playing a DM/DA scrapper....
Anyhow on my teams I just get whoever's available. Last Synapse I ran we had 1 tanker and 5 scrappers, and I don't recall anybody dying a lot.
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Originally Posted by BillZBubba
But that makes sense. There's a difference between being new and not knowing the game's mechanics and offering help to someone that looks in need versus stating such and such sucks when it isn't a fact.
Like stone armor. It sucks without granite. That's a fact. |
That's the interesting bit. I asked him if he was a new player, and he said that he has been playing for a while (at least a year or so). He was also part of a SG, so I advised him to talk with some of his SG mates. I don't think he wanted to be noobish, but for some reason, this guy was completely clueless on many things.
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I said he was trying to give advice... but I also said he was an idiot who didn't know how to play.|
Originally Posted by Kioshi
No, that's not a reason. I was just agreeing with Shred that the player was just trying to give advice because some people consider Shields squishy.
Hell back when I was new people were asking why I was playing a DM/DA scrapper.... Anyhow on my teams I just get whoever's available. Last Synapse I ran we had 1 tanker and 5 scrappers, and I don't recall anybody dying a lot. |
Don't start making me sound like a nice guy. This is the scrapper forum. *punches a wall*
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
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Okay, now this made me laugh. Thanks, I needed that. |
Originally Posted by Shred_Monkey
Don't start making me sound like a nice guy. This is the scrapper forum. *punches a wall*
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So I go to Cim and broadcast "level 50 fire/shield scrapper lf ITF"
"
I get a tell back from someone, and our conversation went something like this:
"You shouldn't say Fire/Shield, you should just say level 50 scrap"
"Why not?"
"Because shield is squishy and people don't want them."
"Not according to my being defense soft-capped to all positions.
"Just saying...help you find teams faster."
"Ok. Well thanks. Good luck to you."
Between my broadcast and this conversation happening I did get invited to a team just fine. I know /Shield when well built is anything but squishy, just thought it was an odd conversation. I thought people had kind of forgotten the "Shields is squishy" mantra.
Oh and by the way, I solo'd several of the cysts on the second mission, and we completed the thing in 32 minutes. I didn't die once, and I don't really ever remember getting out of the green in terms of my HP. I'll chalk that up to a good tank and having a rad, a sonic, and a kin on the team, though.