Verification: Scrappers don't need ranged attacks?
He mentioned dropping grant cover for manuvers. That seems kindof silly to me. GC gives more +def for less endurance.
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Grant Cover only gives defense to your teammates, not to you. It gives you defense debuff resistance.
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Originally Posted by War_Hero_NA
He mentioned dropping grant cover for manuvers. That seems kindof silly to me. GC gives more +def for less endurance.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
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A few things about this:|
Originally Posted by Deathbeforedisco
I am also tempted to make a second build and instead of taking Confront, Grant Cover, Shield Charge and Against all odds, I just take all four leadership powers for group play instead.
 I should sleep on that as well. The thinking on this decision is to be more team friendly by not using as many powers that compete with Tankers for aggro. To hit buffs for all the team members that really help Dark Miasma, Radiation, and Kinetics Defenders and controllers Heal and debuff better. A Group Defense buff that gives myself AND my team a defense buff at a cost of a much lower defense bonus. I frequently have a hard time getting to mobs on teams and getting in kills to convince team leaders that I am not leeching XP, so I am now giving extra damage and other buffs to team members in my way as well as to myself. Most teams I go on, insist on cranking up difficulty to the max and I frequently get myself killed since the healers get overhwelmed, so I will now have vengeance to help out the team some until I get a Rez. This scrapper is gonna be fine. |
1. A scrapfender? Blasphemy!! I know you didn't say that but that's what is described.
2.You can't use your vengeance if you are the one that's dead. If I'm wrong about this, ill pick up the cyborg booster pack and turn my Kin/dark defender into a dark nuking kamakazing, veng bait monster.
3.If you want to get hits in, run in right after the tank when he gets the aggro.
4.If you are pulling aggro from the tank then that's the tank problem and they need to get their weight up.
5. And this *cough* scrapfender build you are considering would make more sense to have both GC and manuvers.
From a fan of scrappers, I ask you to please figure another way to work in leadership that dosent require you to loose the two things (AAO and shield charge) that make that set stand out from the others and pretty much the only reason non themed players would even bother with the set in the first place. Second build or not.(Yall know I'm right)
"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
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Originally Posted by Werner
Grant Cover only gives defense to your teammates, not to you. It gives you defense debuff resistance.
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Originally Posted by Deathbeforedisco
I am also tempted to make a second build and instead of taking Confront, Grant Cover, Shield Charge and Against all odds, I just take all four leadership powers for group play instead.
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Solo, I could see picking maneuvers, but if you are centered on teams, grant cover is more useful.
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Well that's not always the case. One of my shielders builds has both GC and Manuvers. GC only provides it's benefit to teamates that are pretty much in melee with you. Manuvers has a 60 foot radius and provides that benefit to you, the melee folks near you, and all the squishies on the team.|
Originally Posted by War_Hero_NA
The small defense buff to yourself and the team from maneuvers pales in comparison to the buff to the team from grant cover. 13.4% is much better than 3.61%
Solo, I could see picking maneuvers, but if you are centered on teams, grant cover is more useful. |
Since AAO is a taunt aura much of Grant Cover is a wash when you are facing AoE using opponents. Your taunt will cause AoEs to center on you and splash on to the melee folks near you (remember not all toons that play in melee are armored). If you weren't a Scrapper with a taunt aura those AoEs would be centered somewhere else.
(In other words not taunting AoE splash onto your teammates is 100% mitigation for those teammates. Where as GC is only an extra 13%)
The real benefit to the melee teammates near you from running GC is that this is the only power in the game that conveys both it's defense debuff resistances and it -rech resistances to your teammates. Very few melee sets have defense debuff resistances and fewer still have -rech resistances and GC provides an outside source of both.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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Yep. On one of my Blasters, I'd rather be teamed with someone with Maneuvers than someone with Grant Cover. I'm not standing next to you, so 3.61% is much better than 0%. Well, unless I'm on my Fire Blaster. He's crazy and stands in the middle of the melee all the time.
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Originally Posted by Miladys_Knight
Well that's not always the case. One of my shielders builds has both GC and Manuvers. GC only provides it's benefit to teamates that are pretty much in melee with you. Manuvers has a 60 foot radius and provides that benefit to you, the melee folks near you, and all the squishies on the team.
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"That's because Werner can't do maths." - BunnyAnomaly
"Four hours in, and I was no longer making mistakes, no longer detoggling. I was a machine." - Werner
Videos of Other Stupid Scrapper Tricks
Quick question- would you count the Vet Reward powers (Nemesis Staff & Blackwand) as ranged attacks? I never feel like I need to take a ranged attack on my melee toons if I can't fit it because I'll use these powers if necessary. And if you have enough Veteranship, you could even have access to both of them.
Also, GvE pack- it has the Jump Pack, not a Jet Pack, right? Cause if I've missed out on a free Jet Pack all this time I'll be very sad 
Mission Architect arc: The Hive Connection, Arc ID: 96660
Triumph: (@UltraBatz)
UltraBatz, lvl 50 MA/SR Scrapper (1355 badges)
UberBatz, lvl 50 Peacebringer (769 badges)
SG: The Steel Paladins, Fusion Force
Thanks for the feedback on everything.
I am gonna start by saying that clearly, It's a bad idea to take all 4 leadership powers and turn down Confront, Grant Cover, Shield Charge and Against All odds, even on a second build.
Buffing is what Controllers and Defenders are for mainly.
So I am just gonna keep one build, not bother with two builds and save my Infamy on having to buy more salvage and recipes for IO Enhancements and just take all 4 fitness powers, all 9 Shield Powers, Combat Jumping and Superjump for travel, and just take everything in Broadsword except for confront and just sleep on it some more on what else I wanna take.
Plus, if I remember correctly, Leadership buffs are much less powerful on a Scrapper than they are on a Defender or Controller.
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Im the same way. Fire blasters like to dance... Disco "Inferno"!!
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Originally Posted by Werner
Yep. On one of my Blasters, I'd rather be teamed with someone with Maneuvers than someone with Grant Cover. I'm not standing next to you, so 3.61% is much better than 0%. Well, unless I'm on my Fire Blaster. He's crazy and stands in the middle of the melee all the time.
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"All problems can be solved by throwing enough scrappers at it."
@Riez on Virtue, Protector, Champion, and Exalted server.
I'm not talking about adding Assault to increase your DPS for faster AV soloing and/or Maneuvers to reach the defensive softcap. The OP thinks that he needs the entire Leadership pool to make his teams effective and himself a contributing team member. That is absolutely wrong, at least from my point of view.
Why? To answer that question I should explain my understanding of the Scrapper AT. The biggest advantage of the AT is neither its damage (a good Blaster does more) nor its survival capability (a good Tanker can take alot more than a good [=! godlike 4 billion inf] Scrapper). It's the ability to be self-reliant what makes Scrappers helpful team members. A good Scrapper doesn't fear damage or needs buffs and heals to be effective. It's fair to say he removes himself from the tankers/controllers/defenders protection-list.
Too achieve this goal, it is the best to enhance your own defensive capabilites and your damage. This is usually done by adding most of your primary and secondary powers as well as some selected pools like Fitness, Fighting or Speed. You can also add some Leadership powers like the abovementioned Assault or Maneuvers. But adding an entire pool with the vague hope of becoming more "helpful" would hurt your self-reliance, especially during the leveling process, and you'd become an obstruction for the team that you tried to support with your power choices.
For clarification:
1. My favorite Scrapper (Claws/WP) uses Assault and my current Scrapper project (BS/SD) will add Maneuvers in his early 40s.
2. And I'm not the kind of person that kicks people from his teams without consinderation. And I'm not doing this because of power selections, unless it's a defender with only 1 primary power.
3. I'm no native speaker and I don't post here to insult other forum readers. So anything that can be understood as an insult is not meant that way.