Power "Flexability"


Anaxagoras

 

Posted

Suggestion: Allow players to mix and match powers from all existing power sets to make "original" power sets. This includes the "pool power sets" once their of sufficient level to access them.
Reasons:
(1) I dont know about others but when creating a character i often times find myself saying "Hmmm, i dont know what to be...i want to be able to help others if i have to but i also dont want to have to rely on others the whole game and want to be able to "hold my own" if necessary...what should i be? WHAT SHOULD I BE??!! The reason this happens alot of times in my opinion is becasue ur "options" are "limited" in the sense that you want to be something, but you dont really want to be that something. You want "real options", not to have to settle for whats available. Not everyone wants to pick, enjoys being "Stuck" in or appreciates being forced into a certain specific role. You want flexability, real "choices". Allowing players to mix and match powers from different sets to make "original" sets would alleviate this confusion. It would also allow players more flexability as well as allow them to REALLY "Choose" their roles during the game, rather then being forced to "choose" a certain role or being "stuck" in a specific "role" from the very beginning of the game and throughout the entire game.
(2) I dont know about others but i often times have a specific idea for a character, (persona wise), id like to make but the power-sets i am ALLOWED to "choose" from dont fit the persona i want my character to have so i end up taking forever to "choose" a power set and often times "settle" for something that dosent fit the persona of the character i want to make and thus i end up not enjoying the character(s) as much as i could or would like. (not every super-hero/villain is limited to specific powers, (exp. Super-man who possesses super strength, heat vision, frost breath and invulnerability. This is only one example but by no means the only example. It's just one of the most well-known examples i could give.) Allowing players to mix & match powers from different sets would alleviate the frustration of the situation above, allow for more flexability and originality in character customization and persona creation as well as open up a world of new "play-type" options.
(3) I dont know about others but one of the biggest problems i have playing coh/cov is i become bored with my "chosen" powers (power-sets) quickly, especially after ive played the various different available ones over and over again. They tend to become "stale" and old. This leads me to constantly creating new characters and not getting anywhere fast other then the city of boredom. Allowing players to mix and match powers from different sets would give player created characters more "lasting appeal and longterm playability".

**Obviously a boundary would have to be set with this. Attack powers would have to stay in attack power sets and defensive (support) powers would have to be kept in defensive(support) type sets. So you'd still have your primary and secondary sets, one focused on offense and one focused on defense(support) but you could choose what attack powers to have in your attack set and what defense(support) powers to have in ur defensive set. The same would go for the "pool powers". Or something of the sort. this is just a general idea and can be molded obviously.

Ty for listening.


 

Posted

And the price of quotation marks triples due to sudden massive shortages...

Seriously, though, this is only a good idea if you design the game that way from the very beginning. Putting it into the game after the fact is unworkable.


 

Posted

Unless you've got some complex system of power rating that would actually allow power selection across multiple sets to be balanced, it's simply a bad idea.

How would you stop people from simply choosing the best powers at every tier/level/whatever, much less how would you actually deal with some powers existing in multiple sets and roles but being in different places for the various ATs? KO Blow is one of the most powerful single target attacks in the game and is generally likened to other melee sets' tier 9 attacks, yet it's only a tier 6 power. How would you deal with other issues such as specific powers being nominally required for an AT's powerset (Hide, Assassin's attacks and Placate for Stalkers, Taunt for Brutes/Tankers, Confront for Scrappers)? Unless you've got some system in which you think you could balance every power across all power sets across the multitudes of variables that actually matter (animation time, damage, DPA, endurance, recharge, damage type, and that's just for attacks), it's never going to happen simply for balance reasons.

The single most important thing to remember any time any one thinks of something like this is that everything involved with this is a game, not a comic book. Everything has to be designed and thought of within that very specific context. Bringing up all of the weird powers that Superman has access to (super weaving!) as an argument as to why players within the game should be able to cherry pick their own powers as well ignores the fact that this isn't a comic book.

It doesn't help that powersets are balanced within the context of the powerset as a whole rather as a series of externally balanced thematically similar powers. If this were true, it might be possible to generate a system that does what you'd like, but it's highly unlikely without an comprehensive review of absolutely everything, and that is a highly unlikely prospect.


 

Posted

I remember once when this was suggested before, and I designed a Brute Powerset with Moderate, High and Extreme damage melee attacks and 3 damage buff powers. It was totally insane and overpowered. And that was taking powers only at their standard teirs in their original powersets. And here it is.

Tier 1: Stone Fist (Moderate damage)
Tier 2: Stone Mallet (High damage)
Tier 3: Bonesmasher (High damage)
Tier 4: Build Up
Tier 5: Knockout Blow (Extreme damage)
Tier 6: Taunt
Tier 7: Seismic Smash (Extreme damage)
Tier 8: Soul Drain
Tier 9: Energy Transfer (Extreme damage)

Combine this with something like Fiery Embrace in the secondary, and since I can take it no matter what that's easy, and I have 3 +Dam powers on a character with 3 Extreme damage, and 2 High damage attacks. That's a little much. not even close to balanced.


50s: Anaxagoras - En/En/For Blaster, Vicious Kittie - Claws/SR Scrapper, Rad. Therapy - Emp/Rad/For Defender, Anaximander - En/En/Mu Brute, Marble Vanguard - Stone/EM Tanker
Current: Vitriolic - 42 Bots/Poison MM, Aseity - 38 DB/WP Scrapper, Tai Shar - 42 Earth/Storm

 

Posted

Actually before the game came out during testing you could do that. but then people made perfect characters and overpowered characters.

remember fun = challenge


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by justicepwner View Post
Actually before the game came out during testing you could do that. but then people made perfect characters and overpowered characters.

remember fun = challenge
No, people completely gimped themselves.

There are compelling reasons behind the changes made in Alpha. There are all kinds of great reasons to keep this game this way.

You want mix and match and uber/gimp builds? Go play CO when it comes out. I don't want to play with TankMages and That Kid Who Took All The Travel Powers And No Attacks.


Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shatterjack View Post
And the price of quotation marks triples due to sudden massive shortages...
I thought it was fun the way he prefaced each paragraph with "I don't know about others".
A general disclaimer at the beginning would have sufficed.

But I agree, while there's the promise of interesting play options with a more freestyle build, it would be very difficult to balance. It is not at all an easy change.

Anyway, don't use Superman as an example as a character you want to be. The number of powers he has...

Super Strength
Flight
Super Jump
Super Speed
Ice Breath
Heat Vision
Invulnerability
Super Hearing
Super Vision
Super Friction
Super Ventriloquism (Yes, really)
Super Knitting
Time Travel (Not just the movie)


 

Posted

I dont understand whats with all the balance talk. like the "classes" are balanced as they are right now? Stalkers are a perfect example of unbalance currently in game if ur speakin in pvp terms. ive been one or two hit killed many times by one. As for control. obvioulsy the powers that are specific to certain sets, like hide for stalkers wouldnt be able to be "moved" or used in custom power sets. As for making all higher tier power sets and being way overpowered you wouldnt be able to take all the most powerful powers to form a set. The custom set would have to be similar in makeup to a standard set. Primary powers would have to stay with primary powers and you could only choose tier 1 powers for a tier 1 power in your custom set. same for the secondary power sets primary..im not sure how to explain it.for instance
(Tank primary:Ice armor)---------(Defender primary:kinetics)
(tier1) Frozen armor--------------Transfusion
(tier2) hoarfrost------------------Syphon power
(tier3) chilling embrace-----------Repel
(tier4) wet ice-------------------Syphon speed
(tier5) permafrost----------------Increase density
(tier6) icicles--------------------Speed boost
(tier7) glacial armor--------------inertial reduction
(tier8) energy absorption---------transferance
(tier9) hibernate-----------------fulcrum shift

So you could make a set that looks like this:
Custom primary power set:
Frozen armor (tier 1)
syphon power (tier 2)
chilling embrace (tier 3)
syphon speed (tier 4)
permafrost (tier 5)
speed boost (tier 6)
glacial armor (tier 7)
transferance (tier 8)
hibernate (tier 9)
And that would be your primary set. powers in thier intended tiers and your not able to take all higher lvl tier powers to make uber builds or all lower tier powers and gimp yourself. It would just allow more flexability in play and choice in character creation.
As for how i started each of my points with "i dont know about others" does it really matter? I word things how i word them just like everyone else does. thiers really no need to knock how i express myself or write.


 

Posted

Yes, the archetypes ARE balanced. What you want is to play a superubertankmage.

The devs don't want players to do that.

it's that simple.


Please read my FEAR/Portal/HalfLife Fan Fiction!
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