Because phase means you really can't be hit and PFF means you are *unlikely* to be hit.
I've lost count of the number of times I've been hit through PFF both PVE and PVP. A few faceplants here and there 
It's certainly no more game-breaking in PVE than Invisibility.
And you can't click on glowies or TP friend whilst PFF is up.
Leave it as it is IMHO, both for PVP and PVE
Fahie
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Because phase means you really can't be hit and PFF means you are *unlikely* to be hit.
I've lost count of the number of times I've been hit through PFF both PVE and PVP. A few faceplants here and there
It's certainly no more game-breaking in PVE than Invisibility.
And you can't click on glowies or TP friend whilst PFF is up.
Leave it as it is IMHO, both for PVP and PVE
Fahie
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Its almost impossible and not just "unlikely" to hit through a slotted PFF in PvP.
You really want to compare 52% def and 28% res from Pff to 7% def from invis and say they are both equal considering its pretty easy to see through pool invis ?
As the forum hints, i am talking bout PvP and not PvE
But you were talking about it being game-breaking for raids ...ah ... just noticed the "base" bit before that, anyways ... moving swiftly along ( ahem )
/agreed that invis powers are useless pvp on anything other than a stalker
Back on subject, PFF is not even close to impossible to hit through. FA/yellows/no- acc-check debuffs ... all will see that PFF looking a bit tame very quickly.
PS *is* impossible to hit through, obviously.
Besides, if PFF's overpowered then I hate to know what you think of elude
Fahie
I think Fahie has a point, I have a 50 Def FF/Dark PVP team build with PFF(of course) and I have been killed lots of times while in PFF there are means and ways to do this research them.
One Question what do you play to have problems? I'm putting this out and saying that your a stalker and solo?
I think I13 is great for team PVP something MoX/Horde have been working towards for some time with the build up to base raids.
PFF will help nothing in Base raids to be honest.
DD
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But you were talking about it being game-breaking for raids ...ah ... just noticed the "base" bit before that, anyways ... moving swiftly along ( ahem )
/agreed that invis powers are useless pvp on anything other than a stalker
Back on subject, PFF is not even close to impossible to hit through. FA/yellows/no- acc-check debuffs ... all will see that PFF looking a bit tame very quickly.
PS *is* impossible to hit through, obviously.
Besides, if PFF's overpowered then I hate to know what you think of elude
Fahie
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Elude is on a 1000 sec timer and a tier 9, and PFF on a 30 sec timer ^^
Hm it seems strange that you Fahie say PFF isnt hard to hit through and on the other hand you say fortunata and nightwidow defenses are way too high and they are almost impossible to hit ?
PFF is way higher def than forts get and a bit higher than nightwidows get out of elude.
So what shall it be ?
Forts and nw are almost impossible to hit like you said many times ?
Then Pff is even more so.. but you say PFF isnt hard to hit through.
Pls enlighten me
Its really funny to see how ppl say certain Ats are overpowered because of the high defenses they cant hit through in PvP.
And in a different thread even better defenses are easy to hit through cause now its their char who got the defenses.
<sighs> I never said forts were impossible to hit, simply that they are difficult to hit.
Forts can interact with their environment whilst having high defense levels, with PFF you can't.
Whilst not interacting with your environment, you *can* still be hit with PFF up.
You seem to be under the ( incorrect ) impression that PFF equals invulnerable.
Remember, there's always a 5% chance you will hit anything that isn't phased.
As always Moghedien, you just seem to be spoiling for an argument rather than being interested in actually discussing your original point.
That's my observation anyway.
Fahie
My own observation is that with slotted Rage and Focused Accuracy, as well as 30% global accuracy bonus from sets (so a total of roughly 50% with Foc. Acc. active) I have:
- roughly 40-50% net chance ToHit on a Widow not running Elude
- roughly 20-25% net chance ToHit on a Widow in Elude
- roughly 5-8% net chance ToHit on any person I've come across in Personal Force Field. I suspect I am floored for most attacks, and possibly slightly above the floor for KO blow, which has an inherent accuracy bonus.
The times I have seen someone in PFF go down in a zone it is either due to being attacked by roughly four or more enemies, or they were slow with switching PFF on and were already low enough on health that a single lucky hit killed them.
Personally I have never managed to kill someone at full health that was in PFF: I usually ignore them as they are no threat while inside it and go for someone else until they drop it. Very often they tend to wait until it has recharged before they come back however, so commonly it is a case of hitting them until they have to activate it and flee to regenerate back up to full.
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<sighs> I never said forts were impossible to hit, simply that they are difficult to hit.
Forts can interact with their environment whilst having high defense levels, with PFF you can't.
Whilst not interacting with your environment, you *can* still be hit with PFF up.
You seem to be under the ( incorrect ) impression that PFF equals invulnerable.
Remember, there's always a 5% chance you will hit anything that isn't phased.
As always Moghedien, you just seem to be spoiling for an argument rather than being interested in actually discussing your original point.
That's my observation anyway.
Fahie
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Sure forts are difficult to hit its their own defense.
But ppl say they are almost impossible to hit.
But as you said : FA >> yellow or buildup and it isnt very hard anymore.
Imo its the psi damg which almost no sets have def or resists against that make fort seem overpowered and not the defenses as many point out.
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Sure forts are difficult to hit its their own defense.
But ppl say they are almost impossible to hit.
But as you said : FA >> yellow or buildup and it isnt very hard anymore.
Imo its the psi damg which almost no sets have def or resists against that make fort seem overpowered and not the defenses as many point out.
[/ QUOTE ]
Back on topic ....
Jess has put it better than I can.
For completeness, I'll summarise my thoughts regarding PFF
1 : It's not impossible to hit through by any stretch of the imagination.
2 : Whilst it's up, your opponent can't do anything bar buff and heal themselves thereby contributing little to a running battle.
3 : It can be used, like phase, as a panic button. It is less effective than phase for this by a long chalk. Hence, it has a shorter recharge time.
Ergo, I *personally* do not believe it to be overpowered in the slightest.
Fahie
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Sure forts are difficult to hit its their own defense.
But ppl say they are almost impossible to hit.
But as you said : FA >> yellow or buildup and it isnt very hard anymore.
Imo its the psi damg which almost no sets have def or resists against that make fort seem overpowered and not the defenses as many point out.
[/ QUOTE ]
Back on topic ....
Jess has put it better than I can.
For completeness, I'll summarise my thoughts regarding PFF
1 : It's not impossible to hit through by any stretch of the imagination.
2 : Whilst it's up, your opponent can't do anything bar buff and heal themselves thereby contributing little to a running battle.
3 : It can be used, like phase, as a panic button. It is less effective than phase for this by a long chalk. Hence, it has a shorter recharge time.
Ergo, I *personally* do not believe it to be overpowered in the slightest.
Fahie
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Aehm Jess did say even a nw in elude isnt as hard to hit as someone in PFF, think you missed her point ....pretty much the opposit you said.
So she put it better than you can in saying PFF is better than nightwidow in elude ? :-)
Phase is on a 180 sec timer and cant be used like PFF to attack pop it , attack pop it etc etc.
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pretty much the opposit you said.
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Where?
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Phase is on a 180 sec timer and cant be used like PFF to attack pop it , attack pop it etc etc.
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Given the activation time of PFF then you're not looking at building up a very fast attack chain there are you?
They'll be hitting you back each time you drop it, and some of the time whilst it's up too.
They get in more hits than you do.
Fahie
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Where?
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Read her post again ?
No .. where did I say opposite ?
Don't believe at any point I said that PFF was easier to hit through than PVP elude levels?
Fahie
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No .. where did I say opposite ?
Don't believe at any point I said that PFF was easier to hit through than PVP elude levels?
Fahie
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"
Because phase means you really can't be hit and PFF means you are *unlikely* to be hit.
I've lost count of the number of times I've been hit through PFF both PVE and PVP. A few faceplants here and there
Back on subject, PFF is not even close to impossible to hit through. FA/yellows/no- acc-check debuffs ... all will see that PFF looking a bit tame very quickly.
PS *is* impossible to hit through, obviously.
Besides, if PFF's overpowered then I hate to know what you think of elude"
"
Remember ? 
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Imo PFF needs changes in PvP.
How come phase has 180 sec recharge and a max duration and Pff has 30 secs recharge and can be run all time ?
Its pathetic that you can attack pop PFF, attack pop PFF.
Imo either the recharge needs to be increased by a huge amount or the def needs to be lowered by a huge amount.
If you think of base raids this power is gamebreaking.
Pop PFF, scout the whole base and just run to the objectives without anyone able to stop you.
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Whilst it is handy to know a base lay out that alone won't give you victory. You can't interact with anything so all you have achieved is to know where items are. That is not game breaking at all! It might be annoying you can't hit the person but get a couple of debuffs on and you soon be able to hit them much more.
Remember you can just as easily pop loads of defense inspirations and attack items/players. There are lots of little tricks you can do to limit and disadvantage your opponents, not that it matters now as base raiding has been disabled until further notice.
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
[ QUOTE ]
Whilst it is handy to know a base lay out that alone won't give you victory. You can't interact with anything so all you have achieved is to know where items are. That is not game breaking at all! It might be annoying you can't hit the person but get a couple of debuffs on and you soon be able to hit them much more.
Remember you can just as easily pop loads of defense inspirations and attack items/players. There are lots of little tricks you can do to limit and disadvantage your opponents, not that it matters now as base raiding has been disabled until further notice.
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True but in a base raid you cant buy new insp all the time.
What bothers me is that you can just ingnore all defenses of a base and run into the rooms with the objectives, and those rooms normally cant hold much defense items.
Well all phase powers can do that tbh.
I hope we get base raids back in I14 ^^
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Whilst it is handy to know a base lay out that alone won't give you victory. You can't interact with anything so all you have achieved is to know where items are. That is not game breaking at all! It might be annoying you can't hit the person but get a couple of debuffs on and you soon be able to hit them much more.
Remember you can just as easily pop loads of defense inspirations and attack items/players. There are lots of little tricks you can do to limit and disadvantage your opponents, not that it matters now as base raiding has been disabled until further notice.
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True but in a base raid you cant buy new insp all the time.
What bothers me is that you can just ingnore all defenses of a base and run into the rooms with the objectives, and those rooms normally cant hold much defense items.
Well all phase powers can do that tbh.
I hope we get base raids back in I14 ^^
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It takes less than 30 seconds to top up with inspirations again. The defenders also have access to unlimited amount of inspirations and can just pop 20 insights to rip apart that PFF .
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
[ QUOTE ]
Besides, if PFF's overpowered then I hate to know what you think of elude
Remember ?
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Ahh .. a simple miss-understanding
My point was that elude is almost up to PFF levels in PVP, but you can actually do things whilst it is on. A much more effective power IMHO.
Fahie
Max, does it work to use 20 insights? I haven't tried it myself: my impression was that due to Diminishing Returns that is not a viable tactic anymore after the first four or so (depending on the amount of ToHit you already have).
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Max, does it work to use 20 insights? I haven't tried it myself: my impression was that due to Diminishing Returns that is not a viable tactic anymore after the first four or so (depending on the amount of ToHit you already have).
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Yeah you are right. I haven't done a base raid with diminishing returns but if base raids have the same rules (its possible that it might not as they are looking into everything) then after 4 insights it's not really worth it. I'm not sure how much it would improve your chance to hit (prob 1 in 4) but I imagine can still take someone down if everyone trying to gank them.
Heros
Max Powerz: Lv 50 Tanker
Villains
Max Khaos: Lv 50
Overlord of E.V.I.L.
My Brute - http://maxy-khaos.mybrute.com/
LF SG! Arc ID# 193083
Psi mez has no positional value and only psi defence works.
Also playing my violin.
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Psi mez has no positional value and only psi defence works.
Also playing my violin.
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True psi mezz has no positionla value... but PFF has the same defense numbers for both positional and typed :-)
You made it seem psi mez is autohit.
But the thread was nerf PFF because you can't work around it, sorry.
Imo PFF needs changes in PvP.
How come phase has 180 sec recharge and a max duration and Pff has 30 secs recharge and can be run all time ?
Its pathetic that you can attack pop PFF, attack pop PFF.
Imo either the recharge needs to be increased by a huge amount or the def needs to be lowered by a huge amount.
If you think of base raids this power is gamebreaking.
Pop PFF, scout the whole base and just run to the objectives without anyone able to stop you.