jerky gameplay (poor frame rate)
By
Archie Gremlin,
Posted on: 2009-01-29 02:13 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
Strangely enough it *could* actually be due to your gfx card.
City of Heroes/Villains doesnt play well with SLI/Crossfire modes... and unfortunately your gfx card is Crossfired up internally.
Now saying that, i *dont* know if there is a way to disable one half of your graphics card at all... if you can that should defiantely improve your fps if you can do it (strangely enough)
There are other posts in this forum section complaining about "lower than expected" framerates when the use is using SLI/Crossfire.
damn, I doubt there is but I will have a look, thanks for that I had no idea - i was hoping other people might have a solution like a workaround or something I was guessing it might be cos its an oldish game/not built for today cards but damn that's more serious than i thought if it's true 
while you were posting I was making some screenshots to try give an example of why it's so odd, I mean I know it can't be somethign wrong with my computer because of how good it is in other games:
City of Villains:
http://i42.tinypic.com/spc10y.jpg - 10/13ish FPS at this moment of screenshot
Fallout 3:
http://i44.tinypic.com/34i5q8h.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/xp4v4p.jpg
http://i43.tinypic.com/2uign4m.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/5mkff6.jpg (don't look at the last one if you haven't played it through to end already but I had to include it cos of the view)
^ and this is entirely smooth not like CoV/H
I dont know if Crossfire can do this, but is there an Alternate Frame rendering mode available at all?
If so, engage that... its generally the best mode to use for games that suffer fps drops with the normal SLI/Crossfire rendering modes (which normally involve render one half of a frame per card)
All AFR will do is allocate each card a WHOLE frame to render, and then output that.
I don't know..... as far as I know there is no "crossfire" it is all built into the card there are no options like you describe in my ATI Catalyst Control Panel (driver options) nor any mention of crossfire
Hmm try setting Catalyst AI to "Advanced" that might help you out (apparently it forces into AFR mode but still uses both chip cores)
OR you can try setting Catalyst AI to "Disabled" (only uses 1 gfx core for the game)
Tell me what the answers are.
I already had it set to advanced (I had set everything in the options to force maximum basically)
I just tried doing it with the catalyst AI disabled and it didn't seem to make any change, still 12/13 fps when above roof level
Might -just might - that you need to flash/upgrade the BIOS of the gfx-card. I had some problems with my Sapphire HD 4870 which actually was solved after doing just that. I also HAD to turn off vertical sync or my would crash. That could haven been fixed by the flashing, hasnt dared to try it again.
I'm running a couple of new ATI cards here. (A 4850 and a 4650). I had to do a bit of fiddling to get them to render nicely. I'm using the Catalyst 8.10 drivers.
Assuming your card acts like mine you need to do the following. First of all, disable FSAA and anistropic filtering in game.
The ATI drivers aren't compatible with depth of field and high quality water effects. So these must be off or low. (Which you've already done. Good.)
Don't run in 1600x1200. I have no idea why, but this resolution causes lots of rendering bugs on both my systems. I'm running 1280x960 which seems to work fine.
Now you need to change settings in the Catalyst Control Centre. If you play games other than CoH then you'll need a profile for CoH.
Use the following settings under 3D, All Settings. First of all untick "Use application settings for everything" for Anti-aliasing and Anisotropic Filtering. Now set the sliders to whatever value you prefer. (I use 4X FSAA and 8X sampling.)
Uncheck "Enable Adaptive Anti-Aliasing." This is a performance killer which causes my systems to grind whenever I look at a transparent texture. (e.g. fences)
The other settings don't really matter. I've got "Disable Catalyst AI" unchecked and the slider set to "Standard". I've got "Wait for vertical refresh" set to "Off, unless application specifies."
Finally, go into "More Setting" and check "Triple buffering". This will smooth the framerate if you decide to use "wait for vertical refresh."
Put Mipmap Detail level to "High Quality". (I think you can use whatever setting you like really.)
I'm not guaranteeing that this will work, but at least it will eliminate the problems I know about.
If you still have frame rate problems when you've done all this then disable sound and check the frame rate. Apparently, bad sound drivers can hammer the refresh rate.
*notes to self*
Do not buy an ATI card.
Piffle. You're just saying that 'cos it takes a page of instructions to set them up. Some people have no willpower. 
On the other hand, the price/performance is great and the power consumption is brilliant. (Esp for the 4650)
[ QUOTE ]
Sapphic_Neko:
*notes to self*
Do not buy an ATI card.
[/ QUOTE ]
have you looked at the fallout screenshots I posted up there?? I has more too:
http://i41.tinypic.com/2606bn5.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/5x2wwz.jpg awwww: )
http://i44.tinypic.com/4pzj40.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/33ykum9.jpg bug http://i40.tinypic.com/9tjp4z.jpg hunt
http://i40.tinypic.com/vajys.jpg turned wrong corner Mr
http://i39.tinypic.com/1zn92dk.jpg officer who
http://i44.tinypic.com/2nkt8jr.jpg GOOPED
http://i41.tinypic.com/262urg8.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/nbyzxk.jpg i better click on the face one more time to be sure: ) http://i40.tinypic.com/23tjmuw.jpg ok... face is no longer a threat http://i40.tinypic.com/2nhfe3c.jpg
http://i39.tinypic.com/294qx07.jpg
http://i42.tinypic.com/2rm2zqt.jpg playing with nukes http://i39.tinypic.com/10f991l.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/dg07eo.jpg "someone said u have a mutant problem?"
http://i43.tinypic.com/qwy0xu.jpg if i shoot it its supposed to die http://i39.tinypic.com/1znsdox.jpg ..WHY IS IT NOT DYING
its the game thats the problem I suspect yeah it is because it is ATI but not for any good reason - it's because NCSoft/Cryptic are in that anti-competitive, monopolistic programme called "Nvidia the way it's meant to be played" - like on the loading screen for every zone at the bottom, where they have deliberately built the game for one make of graphics card while sidelining all others. >:| It's about time Nvidia and participants were prosecuted for it really >:| I don't really care about brands one way or another as long as the thing is good, but deliberately mangling things so they won't work as well with competitors isn't good for the people who buy them, it only means prices can go up unchallenged and there's no need to try make sure yours is higher quality etc...
[ QUOTE ]
MajorPain:
Might -just might - that you need to flash/upgrade the BIOS of the gfx-card. I had some problems with my Sapphire HD 4870 which actually was solved after doing just that. I also HAD to turn off vertical sync or my would crash. That could haven been fixed by the flashing, hasnt dared to try it again.
[/ QUOTE ]thanks I have no clue how to do this though, most of the tech stuff I know I only learnt the past few months out of necessity trying to make sure I got the most out of new PC -- Where can I download the update? I had a look on ATI/AMD's website and I also googled 4870x2 bios download but to no avail :/
[ QUOTE ]
Archie_Gremlin's post
[/ QUOTE ]Thanks for taking the time to write all those detailed instructions!!! I followed it all through, including changing my game resolution setting (to 1280x1024) - some of the options were in different places like there's no "more options" button, but that's probly cos you have a different version of driver, I have the latest which says it is 8.12 you said you have 8.10
it seems to make a very marginal difference though, I went back to the exact same spot as I took that first screenshot and jumped about there and near there and it's around 13-16 now when mercy houses and everything is in view............. jerky I tried back with my normal 1600x1200 resolution and it's 13/14 again with the town in view
What no MIRV? 
And it seems i have more things enabled in fallout 3, cause mine looks bettah!
[ QUOTE ]
its the game thats the problem I suspect yeah it is because it is ATI but not for any good reason - it's because NCSoft/Cryptic are in that anti-competitive, monopolistic programme called "Nvidia the way it's meant to be played" - like on the loading screen for every zone at the bottom, where they have deliberately built the game for one make of graphics card while sidelining all others. >:| It's about time Nvidia and participants were prosecuted for it really >:| I don't really care about brands one way or another as long as the thing is good, but deliberately mangling things so they won't work as well with competitors isn't good for the people who buy them, it only means prices can go up unchallenged and there's no need to try make sure yours is higher quality etc...
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, the problem is the Catalysts, not CoH. CoH used to work perfectly on ATI cards, right up until the 7.4's. From the 7.5's upwards things started to go downhill, first with the weird gfx effects in water that you observes, then when other odd artifacts.
Have you tried the Omega drivers? They might work better for you.
@FloatingFatMan
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
[ QUOTE ]
sapphic neko:
What no MIRV?
And it seems i have more things enabled in fallout 3, cause mine looks bettah!
[/ QUOTE ]prove it!
[ QUOTE ]
floating fat man:
[ QUOTE ]
its the game thats the problem I suspect yeah it is because it is ATI but not for any good reason - it's because NCSoft/Cryptic are in that anti-competitive, monopolistic programme called "Nvidia the way it's meant to be played" - like on the loading screen for every zone at the bottom, where they have deliberately built the game for one make of graphics card while sidelining all others. >:| It's about time Nvidia and participants were prosecuted for it really >:| I don't really care about brands one way or another as long as the thing is good, but deliberately mangling things so they won't work as well with competitors isn't good for the people who buy them, it only means prices can go up unchallenged and there's no need to try make sure yours is higher quality etc...
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, the problem is the Catalysts, not CoH. CoH used to work perfectly on ATI cards, right up until the 7.4's. From the 7.5's upwards things started to go downhill, first with the weird gfx effects in water that you observes, then when other odd artifacts.
[/ QUOTE ]7.4 you say... It's 8.12 now! That must be at least a year or more assuming they use all the numbers....... If NCsoft can't be bothered to keep the game updated to so it works properly with the driver from the second-biggest graphic card manufacturer it looks like a good indication they are keeping to their Nvidia-"THE WAY ITS MEANT TO BE PLAYED"-sell-out- Maybe they've even been forbidden as part of the shady little anti-competitive, anti-trust-worthy contract...
[ QUOTE ]
floating fat man:
Have you tried the Omega drivers? They might work better for you.
[/ QUOTE ]No and I wouldn't use drivers that aren't official for same reason I wouldn't download windows updates from sites other than microsoft, even if it worked it would probably cause issues with other things
They are up to 9.1 now for the driver release btw.
ah yeah seems it was posted same day I made my first post (29th), I'll go download it see if it helps doubt it tho if City Of isn't being updated
This is the post that I followed to update/flash my card:
http://www.warhammeralliance.com/for...d.php?t=118448
[ QUOTE ]
*notes to self*
Do not buy an ATI card.
[/ QUOTE ]
Got that right
To the poster. Other then what all others have mentioned, decrease or disable PhysicsX. I noticed lots of decrement of my performance on my 8800 GT when i tried to turn that on (on high setting not on very high coz i don't have PPU nor other GPU)
Thanks but it doesn't seem to have any effect
I'm guessing it probly gives CPU the job of doing physics if you don't have a special card, and my CPU only sometimes goes above 50% usage on city of villains :/
I've had a problem all morning.
I was playing last night no problems, this morning long wait to even get to 'next' and 'agree' screens, then log in and server select.
I did get on for a few minutes until I Moved.
Checked all drivers and after all day tech support am U.S. side cable company ran ping tests to plaync and found all was good Until Frankfurt where it all hit near bottom.
Maybe your problem is this also.
Brutes: Doc O'Bay (yup, was me lvl2-48) Doc O'Bay Jr., Sihing, Belphanior, Mr. Lich & Joker's Wylde MMs, Rad'Man Corr, Lockup Dom, Suicide King Stalker, Lord Florentine DB/WP Brute, Tygercide Scrapper......Scrapper?? what the heck is he doing here???
It's not a server or ping issue, google FPS or wikipedia it or soemthing and you might understand, it's too much and too boring to explain
I played a trial yesterday of the US version (I was trying to get in contact with someone on the US forums about base design since you can't even PM people let alone post on the official forum if you are outside the US apartheid zone) and noticed on the loading screens the "Nvidia the way it's meant to be played" stuff is curiously absent - I guess they realised US players wouldn't put up with that kind of crap...
CoH is no longer a TWIMTBP game. They're in bed with ATi now, despite how bad it runs on ATi hardware.
The game is indeed old, but the problem is that Radeons have never been very good at OpenGL games, which CoH is. Catalysts are also completely horrible. While I could accept CoH as an exception, every driver from 8.8 onwards has been a train wreck on any PC that isn't as standard as it can be. Some inter-driver hotfixes help, but the monthly schedule means drivers are always pushed out before they're ready and tested. This cannot continue if ATi wants their drivers to improve.
Your CPU is a quad-core, and CoH can only use two cores. That's why it never goes above 50%. It lets you multitask very well, though.
I read that disabling Catalyst A.I. will also disable your CrossFire. It's worth trying that.
I tried looking through the ATi forums, but it's full of so many raving fanboys, I couldn't stomach it...
Necrobond - 50 BS/Inv Scrapper made in I1
Rickar - 50 Bots/FF Mastermind
Anti-Muon - 42 Warshade
Ivory Sicarius - 45 Crab Spider
Aber ja, nat�rlich Hans nass ist, er steht unter einem Wasserfall.
I've noticed it picking up again recently. I hope it doesnt return to the dark days of summer '07 where you couldnt walk 10 yards without rubberbanding and cars would fly down the road sideways!
I got a new PC for xmas, and it's very high-end, it runs crysis (i'm not actually interested in the game but i borrowed a copy to test after I bought to make sure it was working) at 1920x1600 on high and fallout 3 on max too with good speeds.....
here is the specs
Operating System: Windows Vista Ultimate 64-bit
PSU: Corsair HX 1000W
Motherboard: Abit IP35 Pro XE Intel P35 (Socket LGA775) PCI-Express DDR2
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.40GHz overclocked @ 3Ghz (my computer is a slightly modified version of this one, you can see I copypasted most of these stats - it came overclocked I wouldn't know how to do it myself)
RAM: 8GB: 2x Corsair Dominator 4GB PC2-8500 CAS5 (2x2GB) Dual Channel Kit
Graphics card: Sapphire ATI Radeon HD 4870x2
Sound card: Creative X-Fi Titanium Champion Series
the card is overclocked too because it has a built-in thing in the driver called "ATI Overdrive" where it cranks it up when you are in a fullscreen game (and goes back to normal when doing normal windows stuff) - mine was autoconfigured from default 507Mhz to 787Mhz, with the memory going from 500 to 970
my game settings:
resolution: 1600x1200
particle physics: very high
world textures: very high
character textures: very high
world detail: 200% (100% gives around 5-10 more fps/less choppiness BUT if it can handle fallout 3 which has much longer viewing distance why should I need to reduce it, it doesn't make sense)
character detail: 200%
max particle count: 100 (lowest, i dont like cheesy rainbow colours and glowing lol)
bloom: disabled (same reasons)
vertical sync: enabled
fsaa: 4x (seems to have no effect on speed when on or off)
anisotropic filtering: 16x (ditto)
shadows: enabled
geometry buffers: enabled
texture crispness: smooth
shader quality: high
water effects: none (turned on they seem to be buggy, it looks like a weird artifical mirror stuff is the same size no matter how far, you see a giant reflection of yourself over it etc)
depth of field effects: disabled (i dont like it, it just blurs the background)
but yeah, on City Of, it just seems to be really nasty
I did the /showfps 1 command in chat ingame and it seems to be about 20 in open areas with lots of houses in sight, and 10 when it gets bad
any tips on what's wrong? it's definitely my graphics card which again is surprising because it's the most high-end one available at the moment :/
but, when it comes to City Of, I get laggy/choppy gameplay especially in outdoor city areas like hopping around on roofs of Mercy Island