Secret identity: becoming a real civilian?

Spider man has used his power on the sly un costumed tho as has superman. then there's batman who's always batman even when he's Bruce wane he's still batman and constantly uses his skills. and as Raven says what about those that cant become civs most of my heroes and villains are what they all of the time on duty or not

The MESS for example is a collection of Earth, stone, random chunks of tech, all held together by pretty much force of will he could make him self look more human but he's never going to be human.

Also why would getting mugged cost you Inf? Inf be it Influence or Infamy are a representation of your standing within the community why would you loose some of that if you were mugged no one would know it was you so no loss of influence. Course you could turn hero and fail to stop the muggers i would see how that could loose you standing.

As for under cover as a civ missions they could just be mission where your able to go undercover as a civ at least then some game mechanic like the look like a midnight er charm or the freak disguise could be implemented and if it doesn't soot your character you could just ignore the content.

---

I think perhaps the reason this keeps coming up is that the general idea (however implemented) seems to offer a whole new mode of play, which is exciting to think about. However, that also suggests that people are right when they point out that it wouldn't be a minor thing to implement -- whole new mode of play = lots of development effort! So I'm sure this will not be happening any time soon, given that the devs must have many things that are higher priority.

---

[ QUOTE ]
I went back to the University the other day to change from the valiant Firebrande back into plain old student Brande Richards, before logging out . . . And it occurred to me how nifty it would be if we could *really* turn into an ordinary citizen! That is, if you could make a change that would cause you to just show up as an NPC in the world (just "Brande" over your head, in white text), so you'd look no different from the other citizens wandering around. Right now, you can slot yourself a civilian "costume", but it's still obvious who is a player and who isn't, so you're never really in disguise.

Perhaps there could even be "secret identity" missions or badges you could get while in that mode ("Take the train to Steel Canyon and pick up X", "Visit the bank in Skyway City", ...)

And then you duck behind a bush or into a phone booth, and: TA-DA! This looks like a job for . . .

I'm just thinking that it would be neat to be able to move around Paragon in disguise, and it would add a lot of depth to the whole Day Jobs concept, especially if the secret identity missions (if any) were Day Job-specific. It would also be neat for fellow players not to be sure if a citizen on the street might secretly be a hero.

So, what do people think?

[/ QUOTE ]

No ta if you want "normal" people go play sims

---

[ QUOTE ]
or superman

[/ QUOTE ]

First movie: he catches a bullet meant for Lois. I can't imagine the comic book version hasn't done something similar. He's always invulnerable. He doesn't become as easy to hit as a normal human when he puts glasses on.

[ QUOTE ]
So limiting people to brawl, a baseball bat or a revolver and normal walking/running sounds like normal useable powers.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, no, that doesn't seem reasonable.

---

Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

Superman is possibly the worse example to choose of a hero who can't use his powers in civilian guise. There are countless examples of him using super speed, super breath, eye beams and such without anybody catching on.

It might be nice to have some sort of 'undercover' missions, where you had to work through them without using your powers, but for a general civilian thing I'm in the 'probably too much work for too little gain' camp.

---

However, it turned out that Smith was not a time-travelling Terminator

But when somebody assaults clark kent/peterparker etc in public. What do they so then? Play along that's what. Unless it gets life threatening.

So what would a coh hero do when a hellion demands his purse? Well do a purse tugging first but in the end the villain probably gets it because he cant blow his cover in front of an audience.

What happens when the Vazis want to take his body? Well he probably runs around the corner, transforms and then beat the snot out of them.

---

Arguement summation thus far, afaik;

City of Heroes/Villains; game about playing as a superpowered individual.

Secret identity 'mode'; Not *actually* being a superhuman (ish, in some cases)

Result; most likely not going to happen, people not seeing the point and suchnot.

Plenty of point for 'it happens in the comics' and such, but, well, unless they make all mobs use Rikti Invasion coding and conning, then there really is no way to replicate any of this, and probably wont be. And, as Raven said, lotsa time spent for something that would most likely just cause a hella lot of arguments.

---

There's also the question of do secret identities exist in the CoH verse I've always had the feeling that they don't being a hero in paragon is like being a Cop or a Firefighter or in the Army or any other job for that matter.

---

If I understand this correctly, I think there's a difference between the OPs original "secret identity" idea of having an "off line NPC presence", and the oft suggested "on line plain clothes" addition to the game that this discussion seems to have veered towards.

I do agree that there is little point in the latter for all of the reasons mentioned, but I do like the idea of the former, because thematically, it does fit in rather nicely with the whole "Day Jobs" feature that has been recently implemented.

Of course the big problem would be over crowding in certain areas, as someone has already mentioned.

/signed for the idea
/unsigned for practical application

---

@SteelRat; @SteelRat2
"Angelina my love, I'm a genius!"
"Of course you are darling, that's why I married you. Physically, you're rather unattractive"
http://faces.cohtitan.com/profile/SteelRat

Unless we start doing civy costume contests under Atlas Statue I doubt overcrowding will be a problem. It doesn't matter if you encounter a hero in cossie or one in civy mode. Your pc will have to download the info and do the math all the same.

The reason why I am feeling that this is an idea worth exploring is the OP comment on doing secret identity missions. That is what makes it from just a nice RP tool into a nice new sort of mission tool.

---

[ QUOTE ]

Plenty of point for 'it happens in the comics' and such, but, well, unless they make all mobs use Rikti Invasion coding and conning, then there really is no way to replicate any of this, and probably wont be. And, as Raven said, lotsa time spent for something that would most likely just cause a hella lot of arguments.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well you got a point there. If your brawl still oneshot a hellion in atlas park, your identity is blown anyway. They might not know which particular hero you are but they do know there is something fishy about you.

---

[ QUOTE ]
If I understand this correctly, I think there's a difference between the OPs original "secret identity" idea of having an "off line NPC presence", and the oft suggested "on line plain clothes" addition to the game that this discussion seems to have veered towards.

[/ QUOTE ]
Actually, I have to admit that I was thinking of the "on line plain clothes" idea, though people have argued convincingly against its practicality. But I do also like the notion of the "off line NPC presence" -- by which I assume you mean an NPC with your chosen name and appearance that wanders around your Day Job location when you're not online? That seems simpler to implement, though again probably not a high priority for the devs. Definitely a "frill" rather than a vital feature.

---

The offline version has been suggested recently too.

From my point of view, I'd have to say that it doesn't terribly appeal since, for one thing, I'm never going to see it, am I? When I'm online, my offline persona is not going to be wandering about the city.

Besides which, my characters generally have fairly well defined routines which they go through when I'm not there. Using Nitoichi as an example: her mornings are generally spent working at the Wizard's Well at Gemini Park, then she goes to Vigilance Tower in the afternoon for training with the New Vigilants' trainers, or her own team. And then she'll generally head over to the War Zone (even if I don't) to slot up Rikti. She doesn't have time to be wandering past some random hero congratulating him on his victory over Dr Blarg!

---

Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

I think that's the problem as a RP tool it sounds great but in reality its not so great because those that RP and Even those who have a strong idea of who and what there character is don't like the idea of there character being messed with

---

This is what I've been trying to get across. 'RP Tools' built into games tend to mechanise things to such an extent that it fails to fit character concepts. This is mostly, I think, because games designers aren't roleplayers, no matter how much they claim to be. 'Roleplay' in a game usually means 'the game defines a role, and you play it.'

---

Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

[ QUOTE ]
This is what I've been trying to get across. 'RP Tools' built into games tend to mechanise things to such an extent that it fails to fit character concepts. This is mostly, I think, because games designers aren't roleplayers, no matter how much they claim to be. 'Roleplay' in a game usually means 'the game defines a role, and you play it.'

[/ QUOTE ]

^ This

---

Totally off-topic: Actually, yeah, I think I finally cracked it. I've finally written down the difference between what rolepaying is and what it has come to mean in CRPGs. Only taken me about 5 years.

---

Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

[ QUOTE ]
From my point of view, I'd have to say that it doesn't terribly appeal since, for one thing, I'm never going to see it, am I? When I'm online, my offline persona is not going to be wandering about the city.

[/ QUOTE ]

This depends on whether you Alt or not. One of your alts could see another alt wandering around.

I do see where you are coming from however from an RP standpoint. I like the idea of your alts being around when you are ofline, but only if it were easy to impliment.

---

[ QUOTE ]
One of your alts could see another alt wandering around.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh dear...

[NPC]Grav-Mistress: "Well done Grav Mistress, taking down those X"


Rosa walks down the street
[NPC]RosaThorne: "Hey Rosa, nice outfit"
[NPC]Rosalin Thorne: "I heard Rosa took down a Council base the other day"
[NPC]Rosalin: "isn't that Rosa?"

---

@ShadowGhost & @Ghostie
The Grav Mistress, Mistress of Gravity

If you have nothing useful to say, you have two choices: Say something useless or stay quiet.

[ QUOTE ]
Spider man has used his power on the sly un costumed tho as has superman. then there's batman who's always batman even when he's Bruce wane he's still batman and constantly uses his skills. and as Raven says what about those that cant become civs most of my heroes and villains are what they all of the time on duty or not

The MESS for example is a collection of Earth, stone, random chunks of tech, all held together by pretty much force of will he could make him self look more human but he's never going to be human.

Also why would getting mugged cost you Inf? Inf be it Influence or Infamy are a representation of your standing within the community why would you loose some of that if you were mugged no one would know it was you so no loss of influence. Course you could turn hero and fail to stop the muggers i would see how that could loose you standing.

As for under cover as a civ missions they could just be mission where your able to go undercover as a civ at least then some game mechanic like the look like a midnight er charm or the freak disguise could be implemented and if it doesn't soot your character you could just ignore the content.

[/ QUOTE ]

You only need to read Bendis' run on Daredevil (particularly the "Out" arc) to see how this would work in the "real" world and there's no real mechanism for that in the game (or in any other game I think.)

For those who haven't read it, there were a number of issues contiguously where Daredevil never actually appeared in his own comic - the arcs focussed solely on Matt Murdock and his fight to prove he was not Ol' Hornhead. (A tricky task and the world isn't entirely convinced but they can't prove anything.)

It's an interesting take on the subject of secret identities.

One of the things about Paragon is that all the heroes (and villains for that matter) are essentially registered - we see our ID cards every time we create a toon - so the need for a secret identity becomes significantly less. Heroes in Paragon are a fundamental part of law enforcement. In fact if you translate that model into the real world, if you were arrested by a masked policeman, no matter how guilty you were, the case would collapse before it got to court.


So perhaps the easier way to do it would be to make a new alt who is simply level 1 and has minimal powers and no costume?

---

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
One of your alts could see another alt wandering around.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh dear...

[NPC]Grav-Mistress: "Well done Grav Mistress, taking down those X"


Rosa walks down the street
[NPC]RosaThorne: "Hey Rosa, nice outfit"
[NPC]Rosalin Thorne: "I heard Rosa took down a Council base the other day"
[NPC]Rosalin: "isn't that Rosa?"

[/ QUOTE ]

Never understood the fascination with using the same name on Alts but each to their own.

---

[ QUOTE ]
Never understood the fascination with using the same name on Alts but each to their own.

[/ QUOTE ]
It's probably an RP thing.

Rosalin is a shadow manipulator, so dark/dark in what ever AT I can make fits the character.

Grav, is a mage, and a peacebringer.

Same personality across the alts, different powersets.

I know of at least 2 Characters that can alter their powers, one such character had, iirc 8 alts to him.

---

@ShadowGhost & @Ghostie
The Grav Mistress, Mistress of Gravity

If you have nothing useful to say, you have two choices: Say something useless or stay quiet.

[ QUOTE ]
It's probably an RP thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it really isn't. Hasn't got anything to do with RP.

---

Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's probably an RP thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it really isn't. Hasn't got anything to do with RP.

[/ QUOTE ]
then what does it have to do with?
I think it's an RP thing as you can have a character, who could fit multiple AT/builds. Doesn't mean all RPers do it, I think it's mostly RPers that do it, though.

---

@ShadowGhost & @Ghostie
The Grav Mistress, Mistress of Gravity

If you have nothing useful to say, you have two choices: Say something useless or stay quiet.

No, actually, thinking about it, you're right. It is mostly certain kinds of RPer who do it. Yes.

---

Disclaimer: The above may be humerous, or at least may be an attempt at humour. Try reading it that way.
Posts are OOC unless noted to be IC, or in an IC thread.