Some thoughts from a Dark/Fire.


Cynic

 

Posted

My dark tanker, Enkar Gholan, have been 50 for a while now so i figured i would share some thoughts on this combo.

First of all: i love playing him! Have tried other tankers in the past but found none of them to my liking. I find the survivability top notch with tough/weave up and running and my heal filling me up when needed. I have tanked my way trough Preatorian arc, LGTF, ITF all on top diff with no problems. I'm not like a stoner that never dies unless he falls asleep on the KB, but if i keep my wits about me i can grab all the agro in the world and live trough it.

I can compete with the best when it comes to grabbing agro, two taunt auras (3 if i respec into CoF) and some nice AoE attacks from fire and the epic pool. I find the damage... impressive for a tanker. Mostly because of fire being high damage and nice AoE. Dark helps with crowd control and the damage aura is a nice bonus.

Drawbacks? Plenty... Biggest was the end issue, but after spending 500 mil I'm happy to report its no longer an issue! I'm running more toggles than i can count on both hands and i got hasten on auto, still only in risk of running out if i really really have to spam my self heal while hasten happen to be crashing.

Knockback, no knockback protection in the armor set, this really sucks. I got one KB prot IO now and i would really like to have one more in there since Fake nemesis like knocking me about a bit to much. This is bad for a toon with a ton of toggles where you really want to have 2 EndRdx in most of them and 3 DmgResist, tight build oh yeah.

Knockback turn two! Death to M80 grenades, Solar flares, and whatever other "knock everything into every direction possible"-powers out there. You rely on having mobs in close range to you. OG/COF will neutralize all minions, -ToHit debuff the rest, you will AoE all around you and biggest part: Your heal is PbAoE. I'm usually to polite to complain, but i think dark dark thoughts in some teams...

Energy resist. This can huuuuuuuurt! I sometimes feel this hole in the set is to big, other times i don't notice it. Not much to do about it. I have tanked LGTF on highest diff, its manageable.

Tanking AV's: I have tanked plenty of AV's and so far only found two i had really big problems with (cant remember what the team setups was). First was the Manticore Automaton in a RWZ mish, he hit me with some damn teleport arrow for... way way to much damage.

Second was, sadly, Lord Recluse in STF. Had a nice team with a Empath and a Cold Defender giving me some sweet buffs. Still. Knocking me back to easy, following up with energy attack (ouch), summoning like crazy, and in the end his summons stacking stuns on me and detoggling me. We gave it 3 tries before i stepped aside and let the stone tanker do it (yes the team was nice enough to let me try as a dark tanker even with stoner on the team).

Final thoughts: I like my Dark/Fire a lot, he ain't the best tanker for every situation but he usually gets the job done and he is really fun to play.

Other combos i have considered: Dark/Ice, maybe the most common one and looks to be a nice control tank.

Dark/Stone i might one day create a new tank and if so this would be it. The combination OG+Fault on every mob just looks so sweet...


 

Posted

I have a Dark/Fire at lvl 30 and I am really happy with him. I'm planning to add decent defence and the two slef heals (make it one and a half) I hope it should be ok. I'll be going for Acrobatics though for KB protection instead of the two KB IO's so I can save 50 mill inf.


 

Posted

Dark is like fire, when they didnt fix the heal yet. You can hit great numbers on SL, decent on the other side, but you fail at any issue that can kill a tank.

End drain, -recharge, -slow, -tohit, -stack stun (inv, stone and ice can counter this each their own way), but mostly.. a HP buff. (WP by default, rest has HP boost).

Imho 500mil aint worth it to make a set viable, inv stone and ice out of the box (after def vs res chance) can work out very well, fire need a minor tweak (alot tohit to keep consume hitting).


50)Sinergy X/(50)Mika.
(50)MaceX/(50)Encore

Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!

 

Posted

[ QUOTE ]
Dark is like fire, when they didnt fix the heal yet. You can hit great numbers on SL, decent on the other side, but you fail at any issue that can kill a tank.

End drain, -recharge, -slow, -tohit, -stack stun (inv, stone and ice can counter this each their own way), but mostly.. a HP buff. (WP by default, rest has HP boost).

[/ QUOTE ]

Dark got end drain protection from Murky cloud, for the rest... Yeah. But to be honest, a full heal every
10-12 sec is pretty sweet and in many cases make up for the lack of +HP. And if you bother slotting murky cloud for resist damage you can run around with 80% psi resist, not incredibly useful but have its fun moments.

[ QUOTE ]

Imho 500mil aint worth it to make a set viable, inv stone and ice out of the box (after def vs res chance) can work out very well, fire need a minor tweak (alot tohit to keep consume hitting).

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, dark have issues, i still love playing it but it definitely got issues, would not recommend the set to ppl new to the game.


 

Posted

Any chance of posting a build?

Literally just rolled a Dark/Fire to duo with a Sonic defender (though thinking of going FF for defence instead), came onto Tanker boards to see if anything was said... yay.

I can't afford a 500m build, nor am I ever likely to but seeing what slots others have might help me make mine right from the start. Especially as the last Dark anything I made I deleted at 27 due to end issues (Dark/Dark scrapper way back in i3/4).


 

Posted

This should be a fine PvE build. No purples included, awesome positional defence and good resistance numbers.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1,40
http://www.cohplanner.com/

DA/FM: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Dark Armor
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Death Shroud -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg:30(A), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:30(3), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg:30(3), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx:30(5), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:30(5), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(7)
Level 1: Scorch -- Mako-Acc/Dmg:30(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx:30(7), Mako-Dmg/Rchg:30(9), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:30(9), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(11), Mako-Dam%:30(45)
Level 2: Fire Sword -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg:30(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:30(13), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:30(13), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:30(15), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(15), T'Death-Dam%:30(34)
Level 4: Dark Embrace -- S'fstPrt-ResKB:30(A), ImpArm-ResDam:30(17), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:30(19), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:30(19), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg:30(21), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(39)
Level 6: Obsidian Shield -- S'fstPrt-ResKB:30(A), ImpArm-ResDam:30(21), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:30(23), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg:30(23), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:30(25)
Level 8: Dark Regeneration -- Acc-I:50(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:30(27), H'zdH-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:30(27), Tr'ge-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:30(29), RgnTis-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:30(29), Mrcl-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:30(50)
Level 10: Murky Cloud -- S'fstPrt-ResKB:30(A), ImpArm-ResDam:30(11), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:30(17), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg:30(25), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:30(31)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- GftotA-Run+:30(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump-I:30(A)
Level 16: Swift -- Run-I:30(A)
Level 18: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:30(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+:30(33)
Level 20: Stamina -- EndMod-I:30(A), EndMod-I:50(31)
Level 22: Breath of Fire -- Posi-Acc/Dmg:39(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx:39(34), Posi-Dmg/Rchg:39(34), Posi-Dmg/Rng:39(36), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:39(36)
Level 24: Cloak of Fear -- DampS-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx:30(A), DampS-Rchg/EndRdx:30(37), DampS-ToHitDeb/EndRdx:30(37), Abys-Acc/Rchg:30(37)
Level 26: Build Up -- RechRdx-I:40(A), RechRdx-I:40(36)
Level 28: Fire Sword Circle -- M'Strk-Acc/Dmg:39(A), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg:39(31), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:39(33), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx:39(39), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:39(45), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:39(46)
Level 30: Combustion -- M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:30(A), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg:30(33), M'Strk-Dmg/Rchg:30(42), M'Strk-Acc/EndRdx:30(42), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:26(42), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(43)
Level 32: Taunt -- Zinger-Dam%:50(A)
Level 35: Cloak of Darkness -- GftotA-Run+:30(A), GftotA-Def:30(39), GftotA-Def/EndRdx:30(43), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:30(43)
Level 38: Incinerate -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg:30(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:30(40), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:30(40), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:30(40), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(45), T'Death-Dam%:30(46)
Level 41: Boxing -- Acc-I:40(A)
Level 44: Tough -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:30(A), ImpArm-ResDam:30(46), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:30(50), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg:30(50)
Level 47: Weave -- GftotA-Run+:30(A), GftotA-Def:30(48), GftotA-Def/EndRdx:30(48), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg:30(48)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:40(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet



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Some people prefer GFS over Incinerate. Myself, I like Incinerate better as it's more endurance friendly and the damage is nearly as good.

Hasten is only a filler really. It's good to pop when you're facing tough foes (say Nems, DE, Rularuu)or during AV battles. It's not something you need to put on auto whatsoever. You could also ditch Hasten and go for Acro (saving yourself the trouble of getting KB IOs).


@False Fiction - Virtue / Defiant

Current projects - [Glaciologist - Ill/Cold Troller] [Cloudshaper - Storm/Dark Def] [Harald Wartooth - Elec/Psi Domi]

 

Posted

How good is CoF? I was planning on taking OG as I had it on a Defender and liked it, I figured that while CoF was good it'd be yet another heavy END drain to watch out for and OG is very low end at cost of health, but with Dark Regen up every 15s or so the damage shouldn't hurt that much... or should it?

This is roughly what I was thinking...

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.4006
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Grendel (plan): Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Dark Armor
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Dark Embrace -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(A), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(43), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(43), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(45), S'fstPrt-ResKB:30(45)
Level 1: Scorch -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(40), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(40), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(42), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(43)
Level 2: Murky Cloud -- ImpArm-ResDam:40(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(3), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(3), S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx:30(25), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(27), S'fstPrt-ResKB:30(37)
Level 4: Death Shroud -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(5), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg:50(5), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg:50(17), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(27), EndRdx-I:50(46)
Level 6: Obsidian Shield -- ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(7), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(7), Aegis-Psi/Status:50(9), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(15)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- Krma-ResKB:30(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(9)
Level 10: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt:50(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg:50(11), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(11), Zinger-Acc/Rchg:50(15)
Level 12: Dark Regeneration -- Acc-I:50(A), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:50(13), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg:50(13), Dct'dW-Rchg:50(17), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:50(19), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg:50(19)
Level 14: Super Jump -- SprngFt-EndRdx/Jump:50(A)
Level 16: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 18: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+:40(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(48)
Level 20: Build Up -- AdjTgt-ToHit:50(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg:50(21), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx:50(21)
Level 22: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%:50(A), P'Shift-EndMod:50(23), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg:50(23), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc:50(25)
Level 24: Acrobatics -- EndRdx-I:50(A), KBDist-I:50(48), KBDist-I:50(50), KBDist-I:50(50)
Level 26: Kick -- FrcFbk-Rechg%:50(A)
Level 28: Tough -- ImpArm-ResDam:40(A), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(29), ImpArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(29), ImpArm-EndRdx/Rchg:40(34), ImpArm-ResPsi:40(37)
Level 30: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A), LkGmblr-Def:50(31), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(31), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg:50(31), GftotA-Def:40(34)
Level 32: Combustion -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg:50(33), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg:50(33), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(34), Sciroc-Dam%:50(46)
Level 35: Fire Sword Circle -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg:50(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(36), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg:50(36), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg:50(36), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(37), Sciroc-Dam%:50(42)
Level 38: Incinerate -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg:40(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx:40(39), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg:40(39), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:40(39), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:40(40), T'Death-Dam%:40(42)
Level 41: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 44: Cloak of Fear -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb:50(A), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx:50(45), DarkWD-Rchg/EndRdx:50(46), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx:50(48)
Level 47: Soul Transfer -- RechRdx-I:50(A)
Level 49: Oppressive Gloom -- Acc-I:50(A), Dsrnt-I:50(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
------------
[u]Set Bonus Totals:[u]<ul type="square">[*]4.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)[*]4.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)[*]4.5% DamageBuff(Fire)[*]4.5% DamageBuff(Cold)[*]4.5% DamageBuff(Energy)[*]4.5% DamageBuff(Negative)[*]4.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)[*]4.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)[*]13.8% Defense(Psionic)[*]3.13% Defense(Melee)[*]9.38% Defense(AoE)[*]9% Max End[*]43% Enhancement(Accuracy)[*]4% Enhancement(Heal)[*]35% Enhancement(RechargeTime)[*]5% FlySpeed[*]133.5 HP (7.13%) HitPoints[*]5% JumpHeight[*]5% JumpSpeed[*]Knockback (Mag -12)[*]Knockup (Mag -12)[*]MezResist(Held) 5.5%[*]MezResist(Immobilize) 4.95%[*]MezResist(Terrorized) 4.95%[*]14% (0.23 End/sec) Recovery[*]50% (3.91 HP/sec) Regeneration[*]1.26% Resistance(Fire)[*]1.26% Resistance(Cold)[*]1.26% Resistance(Energy)[*]10.6% Resistance(Negative)[*]6% Resistance(Psionic)[*]5% RunSpeed[/list]


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Some of the KB IOs I have already... how many to be effective in PvE would I be wanting? Or should I just stick with Acrobatics? Even with this sort of recharge, am I going to be lacking attacks? Primarily wanting this tank to be a tank rather than a scranker, mainly as its my first serious effort at a tank. Rest of the expensive stuff I can probably buy at some point as my cash reserves are getting stronger. But in general for the real build replace the really expensive stuff (LotG +Recharge Numina's etc) with something a bit cheaper.


 

Posted

If you three slot health on a scrapper it overcomes the self damage of Ob Gloom, not sure if you need the same on a tank or not


"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"

 

Posted

Main problem you might find with OG is the glitch that makes stunned foes slide away from you very fast. It is annoying enough in both my Fire/DA and DM/DA scrappers so my guess is that it can be more annoying on a tanker. CoF at least keeps them in place and debuffed in accuracy.
I'd personally go for CoF prior to OG, downsides of CoF are, of course, the high end usage and the pitiful accuracy so taking CoF will need as much +acc as you can gather from sets/pool powers and, of course, as much +recovery as you can get.

Don't worry about the health cost of OG, 3 slotted Health should compensate it with no problem.


 

Posted

Lets be honest OG is hardly useful in fights as the mobs will always move away when stunned, which means they can wander off and take up agro on another team member.

CoF could be of more use, but would need a lot of mobs around for it to make a great difference to a fight. Take into account your own fire aoe's and DoTs from them, add the rest of the teams AoEs. Every mob will try to retaliate when attacked temporarily breaking that fear.

I think someone mentioned in this thread you'd be using for PvE, yet talking about both them abilities which would be more useful in PvP tbh.


 

Posted

Fear is good even if the mobs try and retaliate as you debuff the accuracy/to hit along with the fear effect (the debuff is the greater part of it), if they can't hit you due to -acc/-tohit then it works much the same as an additional shield (+Def). Just not exactly quantifiable.

My only real question was whether the extra END cost of CoF was worth it which from the answers so far I'd guess it is. When I used OG on my defender I didn't notice them sliding off but my defender didn't have a PBAoE damage aura running for them to escape from and so the effect probably wasn't so noticeable.