Blasters: /Dark Manipulation. A possibility?

I have no idea if this is already being worked upon or considered for next set of proliferation, or whatever. This is more of a speculation of how such a set would work, rather than a suggestion, but felt this the best place for it.

Now, Dark Blast would also be a possibility for Blasters, but I think that'd be an almost direct port with higher modifiers, so won't go into that.

The following is essentially taking existing powers from various Dark powersets while trying to adhere to what I interpret to be the basic formula of the Blaster secondaries. Most notable difference with /Dark, I think, would be the life-drains and Soul Drain replacing Build-Up.



Tier-1: Midnight Grasp?
The immobilise, ported from Dark Melee's tier-9, but not really the same power. Is ranged rather than melee, and suspect damage'd be quite different.

Tier 2: Smite
Hard-hitting melee attack with fast animation and reasonable recharge, a somewhat more damaging version of the dark melee power.

Tier-3: Death Shroud or Chill of the Night

This one I have some uncertainty about. Chill of the Night, in almost of it's incarnations, is a powerful -ToHit aura with negative damage ticks. I'm not sure if this'd be considered too powerful a debuff aura for a Blaster or not. If so, Death Shroud would take it's place.

Tier 4: Cloak of Darkness
Same as the Dark Armour power. Defense, stealth, immobilise protection.

Tier 5: Soul Drain
This, I believe, would be the main deviation from other Blaster secondaries, as a replacement for Build-Up. PBAoE, for each target hit +Damage and +ToHit. Lasts longer than Build Up at half-a-minute, with only a two minute recharge, but dependent on large mobs to be at peak effectiveness.

Tier-6: Siphon Life
Melee, moderate damage, small but respectable self-heal upon hit. Decent recharge.

Tier-7: Dark Consumption
The PBAoE self +End power of Dark.

Tier-8: Cloak of Fear or Oppressive Gloom
Cloak of Fear's a fear-aura toggle, basically. Oppressive Gloom's a stun aura that damages the user for each enemy stunned.

Tier-9: ???
Now... for tier-9, I've really not been able to come up with anything I'm too sure about. Soul Transfer's a no because Fire ancillary already has self-rez, Dark Regen might be considered too powerful, also. I'm toying with the idea of Darkest Night, but think that could get ruled out for same reasons as Dark Regen. This is one I particularly want suggestions for.



And that's basically the gist of it, the kind of basic thing I'd expect could make up the Blaster secondary of Dark Manipulation.

Ideas on what you feel should be included or left out I'd like to hear, and other possible new Blaster primaries/secondaries. What's come to mind to me is Rad Blast and Rad Manipulation, the latter perhaps including some of those radiation melee attacks we sometimes see mobs use.

Looking back over it, it seems as if it might be too powerful... but then, the same applies for many sets that're in-game and live. Only real shortfall is the secondary itself doesn't bring too much damage with it from actual attacks, but it does bring a lot of +Damage.

change the first tier for Tar patch and put the Midnight's grasp for the tier 9 slot

But it does look great and I would take it, the Cloak of darkess would be great but feels overpowered somehow

I'd love to see this implemented with the suggestions nosatufer gave. Cloak of Fear would be nicer imo for tier 6 than Oppressive Gloom, that'd mean Death Shroud for tier 3 since 2 debuffing auras would probably be too much.-

Probably Shadow Maul for tier 4 would also be good.

I don't think Tar Patch would ever realistically make it to live on a Blaster, and especially not as a tier-1. Without exception the tier-1s of the Blaster secondaries are all single-target and, for the most part, immobilisations. What they all do without exception is damage.

I just don't think a fast-recharging location-AoE slow and -Res is ever going to make it onto a Blaster, except perhaps as the tier-9.

Concerning the tier-1, I think what'd be most in keeping with other secondaries'd be a single-target version of Tenebrous Tentacles. Midnight Grasp came to mind as a single-target dark immobilise, but considering what I envisioned only retained the immobilise aspect calling it that was perhaps misleading concerning what I was trying to get across.

I think the main rule I'm going with is to not deviate too far from what powers in the other Blaster secondaries do. Ice, for instance, has Chilling Embrace for a damage-mitigating debuff aura already, Mental has World of Confusion as a mez aura and a self +Regen power in Drain Psyche to mirror the life-drain, Fire has Consume for +End, Devices has Cloaking Suit. Soul Drain is different, but is also replacing a +Damage/+ToHit power with a different kind of +Damage/+ToHit power.

Tar Patch... doesn't really fit. None of the other Blaster secondaries do -Res or -Def, the debuffs that they do reduce average incoming damage from the target rather than increase your average damage to the debuffee. Caltrops is not really too comparable with it I'd of thought due to it having an avoid effect, damage ticks and no debuffs other than the slow.

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I don't think Tar Patch would ever realistically make it to live on a Blaster, and especially not as a tier-1. Without exception the tier-1s of the Blaster secondaries are all single-target and, for the most part, immobilisations. What they all do without exception is damage.

I just don't think a fast-recharging location-AoE slow and -Res is ever going to make it onto a Blaster, except perhaps as the tier-9.

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I agree completely that Tar Patch is too powerful for a Blaster, unless the -res was toned down a LOT. Even then it wouldn’t be the Tier 1 power, as you say.

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Concerning the tier-1, I think what'd be most in keeping with other secondaries'd be a single-target version of Tenebrous Tentacles. Midnight Grasp came to mind as a single-target dark immobilise, but considering what I envisioned only retained the immobilise aspect calling it that was perhaps misleading concerning what I was trying to get across.

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Certainly, though for parity with the other Manipulation sets a single target knockback power would work too - I think we’d definitely be looking at either a single target version of Tenebrous Tentacles, like you suggest, or a single target version of Torrent (knockback).

I think Midnight Grasp would work great as the T9.

I’d rather see Oppressive Gloom than Cloak of Fear just because the end cost of CoF is rather high, plus the lower mag on OG is more suitable to Blasters, plus being a stun it does give the possibility of stacking with Beanbag, Stunning Shot, Scramble Thoughts, Screech, or (if/when Blasters get Rad Blast set) Cosmic Burst.

I think Chill of the Night would sadly be too powerful (as would Darkest Night for the T9), but I don’t really like damage auras like Death Shroud on Blasters either so maybe put another melee power instead at the T3 position? If not Shadow Maul then you could even consider Touch of Fear (it wouldn’t be too powerful without Cloak of Fear in the set - would probably get a longer recharge than in Dark Melee though, like most melee powers on blasters, so stacking ToF wouldn’t be as easily abused).

What about Shadow Punch as Tier 1? nosatufer probably suggested Midnight Grasp as tier 9 because is the highest ST dmg in Dark Melee, or probably Smite as a tier 1 and incorporate Fearsome Stare at some point like other Blaster secondaries who have a single target hold (like Ice).

Tar Patch would fit in the same measure Ice Patch fits on /ice Blasters, imo the redundant one is Cloak of Darkness, not that I wouldn't like it on a Dark Manipulation Blaster, but would make him a bit overpowered methinks.

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What about Shadow Punch as Tier 1?

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Have you not looked at the other blaster Manipulation sets? Name one which has a normal melee power as T1. Remember, the T1 power is the one that all blasters taking that set get automatically - it can't be anything too good or it will totally destroy parity with the other blaster secondaries. Manipulation sets commonly have a ranged immobilise power except /Energy has a single target melee knockback, so any suggestion should be a similar low damage soft control power.

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nosatufer probably suggested Midnight Grasp as tier 9 because is the highest ST dmg in Dark Melee

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Yes, and because Electric/Energy Manipulation both have powerful melee attacks as T9 too - this is exactly why Midnight Grasp would work there.

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Fearsome Stare at some point like other Blaster secondaries who have a single target hold (like Ice).

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So because Ice Blast primary has a single target hold you want to give Dark Manipulation secondary a long range cone fear that is almost too powerful for the debuff/buff set it is in? (Dark Miasma). I'm sorry, your logic is totally lost on me. This is a blaster secondary we're talking about here, not a corruptor secondary.

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Tar Patch would fit in the same measure Ice Patch fits on /ice Blasters,

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Oh my goodness, do you even know what Tar Patch does? It's nothing like Ice Patch except that both are a placeable patch that has a -spd effect that is never the main reason for taking them. Tar Patch is a massive resistance debuff on a 25' patch that happens to have a minor slow effect, but no "afraid" effect on it - Ice Patch is a 10' cut down version of Ice Slick that does slow and knockdown.

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imo the redundant one is Cloak of Darkness, not that I wouldn't like it on a Dark Manipulation Blaster, but would make him a bit overpowered methinks.

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Well if Cloak of Darkness makes this set overpowered, how come Cloaking Device doesn't make /Devices Blasters overpowered? I mean /Dev has a self-stealth, but if anything it's considered the weakest blaster secondary - so how is a stealth power overpowered when pretty much every AT in the game can get full invisibility by picking up pool stealth and slotting a +stealth IO?

Honestly, I'm just totally boggled by your reasoning.

I'd say it's a good idea but needs abit of work. It's alittle too overpowered in my opinion.

This set would give blasters: A dissorient / fear aura, A power that gives them End back, A self heal, A PBAOE build up, A damage / debuff aura and stealth.

No blaster secondary offers all of that. Infact no blaster secondary offers a way of getting hp back.

Dark Manipulation would be an awesome idea, but having all these powers in it is a tad OTT.

Touch of Fear for tier 1?

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What about Shadow Punch as Tier 1?

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Have you not looked at the other blaster Manipulation sets? Name one which has a normal melee power as T1. Remember, the T1 power is the one that all blasters taking that set get automatically - it can't be anything too good or it will totally destroy parity with the other blaster secondaries. Manipulation sets commonly have a ranged immobilise power except /Energy has a single target melee knockback, so any suggestion should be a similar low damage soft control power.

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Ok let's take something else then (geez what a temper), Midnight Grasp is a no-no here because it's too powerful unless its base dmg is lowered, then it would lose the charm... some kind of ranged immob you said?

I'm at a loss here wouldn't like to see Midnight Grasp with less damage so either they should have an exception and incorporate a different power than a ranged immob, prolly Touch of Fear as PRAF suggests.

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nosatufer probably suggested Midnight Grasp as tier 9 because is the highest ST dmg in Dark Melee

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Yes, and because Electric/Energy Manipulation both have powerful melee attacks as T9 too - this is exactly why Midnight Grasp would work there.

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Wasn't that what I said?

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Fearsome Stare at some point like other Blaster secondaries who have a single target hold (like Ice).

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So because Ice Blast primary has a single target hold you want to give Dark Manipulation secondary a long range cone fear that is almost too powerful for the debuff/buff set it is in? (Dark Miasma). I'm sorry, your logic is totally lost on me. This is a blaster secondary we're talking about here, not a corruptor secondary.

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Yup, you're totally right, I meant Petrifying Gaze, I always mistake the names, calm down.-

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Tar Patch would fit in the same measure Ice Patch fits on /ice Blasters,

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Oh my goodness, do you even know what Tar Patch does? It's nothing like Ice Patch except that both are a placeable patch that has a -spd effect that is never the main reason for taking them. Tar Patch is a massive resistance debuff on a 25' patch that happens to have a minor slow effect, but no "afraid" effect on it - Ice Patch is a 10' cut down version of Ice Slick that does slow and knockdown.

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I know perfectly what Tar Patch does but thanks for your time explaining it, yeah, they are different but I still think it would conceptually fit here, tone down the -res and up a bit the slow, tweak the duration if needed and we're done aren't we?

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imo the redundant one is Cloak of Darkness, not that I wouldn't like it on a Dark Manipulation Blaster, but would make him a bit overpowered methinks.

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Well if Cloak of Darkness makes this set overpowered, how come Cloaking Device doesn't make /Devices Blasters overpowered? I mean /Dev has a self-stealth, but if anything it's considered the weakest blaster secondary - so how is a stealth power overpowered when pretty much every AT in the game can get full invisibility by picking up pool stealth and slotting a +stealth IO?

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Well, Devices is not the weakest blaster secondary in my opinion. It is not about the stealth, it is more about the defense (yes yes, I'm sure you knew both give defense), it just seemed to me a bit overpowered with all the other goodies and tohitdebuff (if ToF comes into equation) plus some defense on same secondary that's all.

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Honestly, I'm just totally boggled by your reasoning.

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Well, at least I tried to be constructive man, take it easy will you?.-

Ok, I said in my previous post this set seems overpowered. So here is what I'd suggest for this powerset. Now I realise this still may seem overpowered, however in my defence I haven't spent much time working all the figures out yet.

Dark Manipulation:

Tier 1: Dark Grasp:
Single target, Ranged, Moderate DOT (Negative), Foe Immobilize, Foe -To-Hit,
(Uses the tenticle animation of midnight grasp, player raises his/her hand at the enemy and the tenticles appear)

Tier 2: Shadow Punch:
Single Target, Melee, Moderate Damage (Smashing / Negative), Foe -To-Hit,
Slightly Beefed up version of Shadow Punch, Increasing it from minor damage to moderate.

Tier 3: Touch Of Fear:
Single Target, Melee Fear,
Same as the Dark Melee power.

Tier 4: Smite:
Melee, High Damage (Smashing / Negative), Foe -To-Hit,
A more powerful version of the dark melee power.

Tier 5ark Torrent:
Ranged (cone), moderate DMG(Smashing / Negative), Foe -To-Hit,
Uses the torrent animation, basically a more powerful version of torrent, However it loses the knockback.

Tier 6: Soul Drain:
PBAOE, Self +DMG, +To-Hit,
Same as the dark melee version except that the damage has been removed.

Tier 7: Nightmare:
Ranged, Foe sleep.
Trap an enemy in his nightmares, however attacking them will cause them to wake up.

Tier 8: Dark Consumption:
PBAOE, Self +End,
Same as the dark melee version except the damage has been removed.

Tier 9: Dark Rift:
Close (AoE), High Damage(Negative), Foe fear.
You concentrate and create a small rift between the netherworld and our world. This results in a small explosion and
the release of a number of unspeakable horrors. Enemies will take some damage from the explosion and may cower in fear.
However more experienced enemies may not give into their fear. (Uses the Quasar Animation). Thinking a mag 2 fear.

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I still feel this is overpowered, however I'm having a hard time finding powers to use. A secondary blaster set, with a fear, sleep, PBAOE build up
and +end, makes me nervouse. But the only way I can see of fixing it is to replace the sleep or fear with shadow maul, This is something I wouldn't want to do.
The cast time is too big for a blaster, not to mention the set would start to get alittle damage heavy (if it isn't already).


My only other idea is this one:

Dark Manipulation:

Tier 1: Dark Grasp:
Single target, Ranged, Moderate DOT (Negative), Foe Immobilize, Foe -To-Hit,
(Uses the tenticle animation of midnight grasp, player raises his/her hand at the enemy and the tenticles appear)

Tier 2: Shadow Punch:
Single Target, Melee, Moderate Damage (Smashing / Negative), Foe -To-Hit,
Slightly Beefed up version of Shadow Punch, Increasing it from minor damage to moderate.

Tier 3: Death Shroud:
PBAOE minor dot (negative).

Tier 4: Smite:
Melee, High Damage (Smashing / Negative), Foe -To-Hit,
A more powerful version of the dark melee power.

Tier 5ark Torrent:
Ranged (cone), moderate DMG(Smashing / Negative), Foe -To-Hit,
Uses the torrent animation, basically a more powerful version of torrent, However it loses the knockback.

Tier 6: Soul Drain:
PBAOE, Self +DMG, +To-Hit,
Same as the dark melee version except that the damage has been removed.

Tier 7:Touch Of Fear:
Single Target, Melee Fear,
Same as the Dark Melee power.

Tier 8: Dark Consumption:
PBAOE, Self +End,
Same as the dark melee version except the damage has been removed.

Tier 9: Dark Rift:
Close (AoE), High Damage(Negative), Foe fear.
You concentrate and create a small rift between the netherworld and our world. This results in a small explosion and
the release of a number of unspeakable horrors. Enemies will take some damage from the explosion and may cower in fear.
However more experienced enemies may not give into their fear. (Uses the Quasar Animation). Thinking a mag 2 fear.

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In fact no blaster secondary offers a way of getting hp back.

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Mental Manipulation. Drain Psyche. On a half-decent amount of hits it'll give you enough regen to get from 1% to 100% health pretty easily. With 10+ and slotting for heal it could effectively regen from 1% to 100% several times in the 30 seconds it lasts. Base recharge is only two minutes, too, and even unslotted for end mod it'll easily have you at recovery cap.

Mental Manipulation does have a huge amount of stuff in it, and I don't think much more than the listed powers would be. Mez aura in World of Confusion. Immobilise, Self +regen/+recov in Drain Psyche, -Recharge in Mind Probe, Psychic Scream and Shockwave, also damage and stun, Build Up and Fear in Scare.

That being said, Chill of the Night with the -ToHit it usually has when it appears would be overpowered. My main reason for it's inclusion isn't really a good one, as it was that I thought it'd be nice if it showed up in a powerset usable by players, not counting DM's Dark Servant. Death Shroud is the much more realistic possibility.


Soul Drain also wouldn't be too much for a Blaster, I don't think. It's a longer and higher damage boost, provided it hits 6-7+ targets, but is not as reliable as Build Up. When fighting dispersed or smaller mobs it'd suffer, and in AV/Monster fights, also.

But my main point, really, is that I don't think Siphon Life could even begin to hold a candle to Drain Psyche for hp recovery. Health recovery powers do already exist in Blaster secondaries.

I done a bit of research on manipulation sets and dark powers and came up with an entire proliferated set

1) Midnight Grasp
2) Shadow Punch
3) Death Shroud
4) Smite
5) Build Up
6) Oppresive Gloom
7) Siphon Life
8) Dark Consumption
9) Petrifying Gaze

This is just basically a mix of Dark Miasma, Melee and armour to create a manipulation set built to be like Electricity manipulation.

It wouldnt be too much hassle for the devs to create either

I do agree that tar patch might be to powerful, (I remembered too late it has a -res as well on it) but a toned down version would make a nice difference with an immobilize, plus /dev got caltrops which is also a slow, -rech. It would need work I agree completelty. And yes midnight graps as the secondary's tier 9 is because it is the highest dark damage melee in the game.

But i do like the set and with some working around, toning down, it could turn into a great secondary!

I agree drain psyche is very powerfull, however the most I have ever gotten out of that is 17hp/sec. Which wont make the blaster last too long if he is getting all the agro.

Siphon life on the otherhand can be slotted to give the following:
End cost: 8.53,
Recharge: 8 seconds,
Hp recovered: 20% of max health.

regaining about 200hp every 8seconds on a blaster is silly compaired to a small regen of 17hp/sec which depends on big mob sizes anyway. The exact argument you used for soul drain works for why drain psyche is no where near as OTT as a self heal would be.
As for compairing what dark and mental have against each other.

Mental manipulation:

Confuse (AOE),
Fear (single target ranged),
Immob (ranged single target),
Self +regen, +recovery,
Knockback,
Stun,
Minor (DOT),
Moderate (DOT),
2 x moderate damage,
1 x minor damage,
1 x high damage (AOE),

Proposed dark manipulation:

Immob (ranged single target),
3 x –To-Hit (Midnight grasp, Smite, Siphon Life),
Stealth (Shadow Cloak),
defence (all) (Shadow Cloak),
+perception (Shadow Cloak),
+resist Imoob (Shadow Cloak),
Self Heal,
Dissorient (AOE),
PBAOE build up,
PBAOE +End,
2 x Moderate Damage (AOE),
1 x High Damage,
1 x Minor (DOT),
1 x Moderate (DOT),

This is using the powers as they are at the moment (however I have adjusted the damage on midnight grasp to moderate just like most blaster tier 1’s). This is also without a tier 9 power, which means dark manipulation is giving more bonuses than mental without it’s “Best” power.

I'd definitely love to see both Dark Blast and Dark Manipulation on Blasters. The way I'd like to see it is as follows, of course, there should be some tweaking on them, but I leave that to devs:

Tier-1: Touch of Fear - Most Blaster secondaries start with a ranged immob... Energy Melee is an exception, it starts with KB, well, Dark manipulation would be a second exception.

Tier 2: Smite

Tier-3: Death Shroud or Shadow Maul - I'd rather Shadow Maul instead, can't see many blasters taking Death Shroud, but Shadow Maul would make the set "too good" probably

Tier 4: Cloak of Darkness or Petrifying Gaze

Tier 5: Soul Drain

Tier-6: Siphon Life

Tier-7: Dark Consumption

Tier-8: Cloak of Fear or Oppressive Gloom - Cloak of Fear if Petrifying gaze as Tier 4 and Oppressive Gloom if Cloak of Darkness as Tier 4

Tier-9: Midnight Grasp

I was perfectly calm, Nightmarer - astonished, but calm I don’t see how you thought I’d lost my temper from that paragraph you quoted - but with text a lot of the interpretation can depend on the reader - maybe I was a bit strong in some of the other paragraphs so I apologise if I upset you. Ahh well, moving on.

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Dark Manipulation:

Tier 1: Dark Grasp:
Single target, Ranged, Moderate DOT (Negative), Foe Immobilize, Foe -To-Hit,
(Uses the tenticle animation of midnight grasp, player raises his/her hand at the enemy and the tenticles appear)

Tier 2: Shadow Punch:
Single Target, Melee, Moderate Damage (Smashing / Negative), Foe -To-Hit,
Slightly Beefed up version of Shadow Punch, Increasing it from minor damage to moderate.

Tier 3: Touch Of Fear:
Single Target, Melee Fear,
Same as the Dark Melee power.

Tier 4: Smite:
Melee, High Damage (Smashing / Negative), Foe -To-Hit,
A more powerful version of the dark melee power.

Tier 5ark Torrent:
Ranged (cone), moderate DMG(Smashing / Negative), Foe -To-Hit,
Uses the torrent animation, basically a more powerful version of torrent, However it loses the knockback.

Tier 6: Soul Drain:
PBAOE, Self +DMG, +To-Hit,
Same as the dark melee version except that the damage has been removed.

Tier 7: Nightmare:
Ranged, Foe sleep.
Trap an enemy in his nightmares, however attacking them will cause them to wake up.

Tier 8: Dark Consumption:
PBAOE, Self +End,
Same as the dark melee version except the damage has been removed.

Tier 9: Dark Rift:
Close (AoE), High Damage(Negative), Foe fear.
You concentrate and create a small rift between the netherworld and our world. This results in a small explosion and
the release of a number of unspeakable horrors. Enemies will take some damage from the explosion and may cower in fear.
However more experienced enemies may not give into their fear. (Uses the Quasar Animation). Thinking a mag 2 fear.

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I still feel this is overpowered, however I'm having a hard time finding powers to use. A secondary blaster set, with a fear, sleep, PBAOE build up and +end, makes me nervouse. But the only way I can see of fixing it is to replace the sleep or fear with shadow maul, This is something I wouldn't want to do.
The cast time is too big for a blaster, not to mention the set would start to get alittle damage heavy (if it isn't already).

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I think this set is probably the best suggestion on this topic so far IF you change out the Tier 9 for Midnight Grasp (you’re right about Shadow Maul - to risk that animation time in melee I'd want at least Total Focus or nuke-level damage). As it is I’d be more worried about a blaster having two stackable controls of the same type - Fear in this case - so the existing T9 has to go. The set already has AE control in the T7 position, but I think AE sleep is fine (even one of the blaster primaries has a cone sleep).

I wouldn’t worry about the set getting too damage-heavy if it’s melee, as Electric/Energy Manipulation both have a lot of melee damage and their melee attacks do more damage than the Dark ones anyway.

Though I could also possibly see Oppressive Gloom (my choice) or Death Shroud (possible, but a damage aura on a blaster would be skippable to me) going into the tier 5 position instead of Dark Torrent too.

So something like this:

Dark Manipulation:

Tier 1: Dark Tenticle:
Single target, Ranged, Moderate DOT (Negative), Foe Immobilize,
(Uses the tenticle animation of midnight grasp, player raises his/her hand at the enemy and the tenticles appear)

Tier 2: Shadow Punch:
Single Target, Melee, Moderate Damage (Smashing / Negative), Foe -To-Hit,
Slightly Beefed up version of Shadow Punch, Increasing it from minor damage to moderate.

Tier 3: Touch Of Fear:
Single Target, Melee Fear,
Same as the Dark Melee power.

Tier 4: Smite:
Melee, High Damage (Smashing / Negative), Foe -To-Hit,
A more powerful version of the dark melee power.

Tier 5: Dark Torrent:
Ranged (cone), moderate DMG(Smashing / Negative), Foe -To-Hit,
Uses the torrent animation, basically a more powerful version of torrent, However it loses the knockback.

Tier 6: Soul Drain:
PBAOE, Self +DMG, +To-Hit,
Same as the dark melee version except that the damage has been removed.

Tier 7: Nightmare:
Ranged, Foe sleep.
Trap an enemy in his nightmares, however attacking them will cause them to wake up.

Tier 8: Dark Consumption:
PBAOE, Self +End,
Same as the dark melee version except the damage has been removed.

Tier 9: Midnight Grasp:
Melee, Superior DMG (Negative), Foe Imoobilize, Foe -To-Hit,
Same as the dark melee power.

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Dark Manipulation:

Tier 1: Dark Grasp:
Single target, Ranged, Moderate DOT (Negative), Foe Immobilize, Foe -To-Hit,
(Uses the tenticle animation of midnight grasp, player raises his/her hand at the enemy and the tenticles appear)

Tier 2: Shadow Punch:
Single Target, Melee, Moderate Damage (Smashing / Negative), Foe -To-Hit,
Slightly Beefed up version of Shadow Punch, Increasing it from minor damage to moderate.

Tier 3: Touch Of Fear:
Single Target, Melee Fear,
Same as the Dark Melee power.

Tier 4: Smite:
Melee, High Damage (Smashing / Negative), Foe -To-Hit,
A more powerful version of the dark melee power.

Tier 5ark Torrent:
Ranged (cone), moderate DMG(Smashing / Negative), Foe -To-Hit,
Uses the torrent animation, basically a more powerful version of torrent, However it loses the knockback.

Tier 6: Soul Drain:
PBAOE, Self +DMG, +To-Hit,
Same as the dark melee version except that the damage has been removed.

Tier 7: Nightmare:
Ranged, Foe sleep.
Trap an enemy in his nightmares, however attacking them will cause them to wake up.

Tier 8: Dark Consumption:
PBAOE, Self +End,
Same as the dark melee version except the damage has been removed.

Tier 9: Dark Rift:
Close (AoE), High Damage(Negative), Foe fear.
You concentrate and create a small rift between the netherworld and our world. This results in a small explosion and
the release of a number of unspeakable horrors. Enemies will take some damage from the explosion and may cower in fear.
However more experienced enemies may not give into their fear. (Uses the Quasar Animation). Thinking a mag 2 fear.

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I still feel this is overpowered, however I'm having a hard time finding powers to use. A secondary blaster set, with a fear, sleep, PBAOE build up and +end, makes me nervouse. But the only way I can see of fixing it is to replace the sleep or fear with shadow maul, This is something I wouldn't want to do.
The cast time is too big for a blaster, not to mention the set would start to get alittle damage heavy (if it isn't already).

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I think this set is probably the best suggestion on this topic so far IF you change out the Tier 9 for Midnight Grasp (you’re right about Shadow Maul - to risk that animation time in melee I'd want at least Total Focus or nuke-level damage). As it is I’d be more worried about a blaster having two stackable controls of the same type - Fear in this case - so the existing T9 has to go. The set already has AE control in the T7 position, but I think AE sleep is fine (even one of the blaster primaries has a cone sleep).

I wouldn’t worry about the set getting too damage-heavy if it’s melee, as Electric/Energy Manipulation both have a lot of melee damage and their melee attacks do more damage than the Dark ones anyway.

Though I could also possibly see Oppressive Gloom (my choice) or Death Shroud (possible, but a damage aura on a blaster would be skippable to me) going into the tier 5 position instead of Dark Torrent too.

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What I don't like of thsi proposal are mainly two points:

1.- Dark Miasma, Darl Melee and Dark Armor have enough power variety to compose a new set for Blasters without needing to add new ones (with the right tweaks of course)

2.- I don't like the idea of Tier 1 and Tier 9 being pretty much the same just with different damage, as I said I think the three powersets involved have enough powers to compose a set.

Yeah well, both points are basically the same but hey ho.-

Edit: On the other hand, the idea of Torrent with more damage and losing the KB (or maybe making it KD) is great, but Torrent is part of the Dark Blast set and I'd really like also Dark Blast ported for Blasters.-

Yeah that looks fine Tygrrfang - to me, anyway.

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2.- I don't like the idea of Tier 1 and Tier 9 being pretty much the same just with different damage, as I said I think the three powersets involved have enough powers to compose a set.

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The damage makes a huge difference though - the T1 blaster ranged immobilises are mainly used in early levels AS immobilises (then either not used much after that, or slotted for damage to use when mezzed), while Midnight Grasp is a supreme damage melee attack that just so happens to immobilise, but is mainly taken/used for the damage. And stacking issues within the same set for immobilises I don't see as a problem, because immobilises still allow the enemy to attack.

But as an alternative how about if we go with Tygrrfang's last-posted version of the powerset but change the T1 into a single target melee knockback power like Power Thrust from /Energy manipulation, maybe using some of the graphical effects of Torrent?

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1) Midnight Grasp
2) Shadow Punch
3) Death Shroud
4) Smite
5) Build Up
6) Oppresive Gloom
7) Siphon Life
8) Dark Consumption
9) Petrifying Gaze


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This is a Powerset thats completeley Proliferated to be like Electricity Manipulation, using dark miasma, armour and melee ONLY

If Dark Miasma is to be proliferated, the Devs will make the easiest way without the hassle of new powers, the Result Above

Ok I decided to redraft your last suggested set, Tygrrfang, to show what I meant. I kept your Nightmare power, but suggested a few tweaks to it (and a potential substitution) - otherwise I’m fairly happy - this is a Blaster secondary I’d play and I don’t think it’s overpowered compared to the other Manipulation sets.


Dark Manipulation

Tier 1: Dark Cascade
Single Target, Melee, Minor DMG (Smashing / Negative), Foe Knockback (mag16.6),
(A copy-paste of Power Thrust from Energy Manipulation, just with Negative instead of Energy, and using parts of Torrent’s animation and particle effects)

Tier 2: Shadow Punch
Single Target, Melee, Moderate Damage (Smashing / Negative), Foe -To-Hit
(Damage higher than Dark Melee version, but recharge is also longer at 10s base to match Blaster Energy Punch)

Tier 3: Touch Of Fear
Single Target, Melee, Foe Fear (mag3)
(Same as Dark Melee, but possibly with 12s recharge)

Tier 4: Smite
Single Target, Melee, High Damage (Smashing / Negative), Foe -To-Hit,
(Damage higher than Dark Melee version, but recharge is also longer at 14s base to match Blaster Bonesmasher)

Tier 5: Oppressive Gloom
PBAE, Toggle, Foe Disorient (mag2), Self -HP
(identical to the Brute/Scrapper Dark Armour version, though maybe with the slightly higher end cost of the Defender APP version)

Tier 6: Soul Drain
PBAE, Self +DMG, +To-Hit
(as per Dark Melee, but with no damage)

Tier 7: Nightmare
Single Target, Ranged, Foe Sleep (mag3)
(I’m tempted to change this into either a short range cone, say 40ft and 60 degrees, or keep it as a single target sleep and instead add negative damage to it, perhaps at the same level as Mesmerise from Mind Control. In that respect, to save time, it could be a simple copy/paste of Mesmerise, just with negative damage instead of psi, and typed for psi/range. Discuss)

Alternatively Petrifying Gaze (mag3 ranged hold with no damage) from Dark Miasma could be used as the Tier 7. instead

Tier 8: Dark Consumption
PBAE, Moderate Damage (Negative), Self +End,
(As per Dark Melee. I’d leave the damage on it, as unlike /Electric’s auto-hit Power Sink it still needs to actually hit, though it costs only 0.52 end compared to 13 for Power Sink. Power Sink also drains end from enemies unlike this, and has a 60s recharge, unlike the 180s on Dark Melee’s Dark Consumption, so I might be tempted to put the Blaster version at 120s recharge to balance them a little more closely - or you could drop the damage to Minor and make this 60s recharge, I guess).

Tier 9: Midnight Grasp
Single Target, Melee, Superior DMG (Negative), Foe Immobilize (mag3), Foe -To-Hit,
(as per Dark Melee but with slightly higher recharge to bring it in line with other Blaster superior damage melee attacks - possibly 18s so it still recharges faster than the higher damage Total Focus in /Energy - and being pure negative damage and having lower animation time makes it attractive anyway)


Oh and Statesman_4_Prez you can’t just list power names and leave it at that, otherwise it looks like you’re letting blasters have a superior damage melee attack as their first mandatory choice, which would make your version of the set the most overpowered/desirable blaster secondary by far.

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2.- I don't like the idea of Tier 1 and Tier 9 being pretty much the same just with different damage, as I said I think the three powersets involved have enough powers to compose a set.

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The damage makes a huge difference though - the T1 blaster ranged immobilises are mainly used in early levels AS immobilises (then either not used much after that, or slotted for damage to use when mezzed), while Midnight Grasp is a supreme damage melee attack that just so happens to immobilise, but is mainly taken/used for the damage. And stacking issues within the same set for immobilises I don't see as a problem, because immobilises still allow the enemy to attack.

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Indeed dmg does a great difference, it's just about the animations, it would make a dull set repeating animations on same secondar´.

I still think the Dark Sets are rich enough for not to implement new ones, at least on a Dark Manipulation as secondary, if we consider Dark Blast being ported also, we'd need a power to substitute Black Hole, that Nightmare power from Tygrrfang looks good for it a bit tweaked, for sure the name is cool .

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Indeed dmg does a great difference, it's just about the animations, it would make a dull set repeating animations on same secondar´.

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Yeah on that basis it would be a bit dull and I thought that was probably what you were getting at, hence suggesting a replacement for the T1 immob with a dark version of Power Thrust.

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if we consider Dark Blast being ported also, we'd need a power to substitute Black Hole, that Nightmare power from Tygrrfang looks good for it a bit tweaked, for sure the name is cool .

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Ok you've confused me again - Black Hole is in Dark Miasma.

Do you mean Dark Pit? (that's not overpowered for a blaster because it's only mag2).

Or Blackstar? (I think that's one of the lowest damage nukes anyway, so that's not overpowered).

Personally while I think Dark Blast has to come over to Blasters in the end anyway, my worry is that it's probably the lowest damage blast set anyway. I don't see anything overpowered in Dark Blast when put on a blaster - sure, it's a bit more controllery than some blaster primaries, but taken as a whole none of the controls are more powerful than say the Sonic Attacks or Ice Blast sets already are (and those two sets actually have some of the best single target damage in addition to good control).

So yeah, I'm not seeing much trouble with a direct port of Dark Blast except that the Devs may want to tweak damage upwards on a few things in there. On the whole I'm actually more enthusiastic about Blasters getting Rad Blast than Dark Blast.

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if we consider Dark Blast being ported also, we'd need a power to substitute Black Hole, that Nightmare power from Tygrrfang looks good for it a bit tweaked, for sure the name is cool .

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Ok you've confused me again - Black Hole is in Dark Miasma.

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Yeah that's what happens when making rush posts and the boss is around.