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No, as that would eliminate it's ability to stack.
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Would someone care to explain this to me? I don't have either version of the power.
I really should do something about this signature.
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No, as that would eliminate it's ability to stack.
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Would someone care to explain this to me? I don't have either version of the power.
[/ QUOTE ]Sleeps with damage can't be stacked, for obvious reasons.
Of course, adding damage to tanker version would remove it's ability to be stacked, so I don't quite get their logic.
The Munitions Mastery "sleep grenade" can be stacked with FA to snoozle bosses. Also, a typical Blaster isn't exactly lacking in damage output (but could use more mitigation), but /Ice tanks could use some more.
Yeah, I guess that's right. The argument was having a sleep power on a tank was pretty pointless, so Castle is turning it into a damage power with a sleep side effect.
Whereas a Sleep on a blaster can be quite useful.
I really should do something about this signature.
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The Munitions Mastery "sleep grenade" can be stacked with FA to snoozle bosses.
[/ QUOTE ]So can earth mastery Salt Crystals on tanks. [ QUOTE ]
Also, a typical Blaster isn't exactly lacking in damage output (but could use more mitigation), but /Ice tanks could use some more.
[/ QUOTE ]But they gave sleep stacking as a reason rather than damage output 
If you had slow ticking damage in the sleep (every 5-10 seconds or so) and the sleep was applied after the damage then it could work. Enemy takes damage and then sleeps. Is woken up by the next damage tick (assuming no-one attacks him in the meantime), gets a shot off and then falls asleep again.
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The Munitions Mastery "sleep grenade" can be stacked with FA to snoozle bosses.
[/ QUOTE ]So can earth mastery Salt Crystals on tanks.
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The difference being, of course, that Tankers don't care nearly as much as a Blaster when an unslept boss decides to smack them in the face...
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Also, a typical Blaster isn't exactly lacking in damage output (but could use more mitigation), but /Ice tanks could use some more.
[/ QUOTE ]But they gave sleep stacking as a reason rather than damage output
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In fairness, you could come at that from either POV. Blasters that take FA already will use it for the sleep. /Ice Blasters haven't been complaining about having no damage output (they still have a primary, and /Ice tends to be chosen for the "control") but they are likely to complain if you nerf any of their mitigation.
On the other hand, /Ice on a Tanker is going to provide pretty much the only damage that Tank gets. /Ice Tanks have been complaining for ages (loudly, at least on the US boards) that they need more damage. So, Castle adds damage to Tanker FA, but doesn't touch the Blaster version because if he took away any Blaster mitigation in return for damage it would be seen more as a nerf than a buff.
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In fairness, you could come at that from either POV. Blasters that take FA already will use it for the sleep. /Ice Blasters haven't been complaining about having no damage output (they still have a primary, and /Ice tends to be chosen for the "control") but they are likely to complain if you nerf any of their mitigation.
[/ QUOTE ]/Ice blasters haven't been complaining? Maybe not too vocally, but ice is generally considered the weakest secondary...
And really, the (quite likely very few) blasters that self-stack AoE sleeps could still use FA first and sleep grenade afterwards. Although I suppose you couldn't stack FA and siren's song, but how many sonic/ice blasters are there?
Weakest? You mean in terms of damage output? I thought it was fairly tied with /Devices. It's certainly one of the best secondaries for control and damage mitigation. Ice Patch and Shiver combined are amazing.
I have an /Ice Blaster, and I picked the secondary for the extra control it offers. Unlike an /Ice tanker, my /Ice Blaster is in no way short on damage output because I get all the damage I need from his Fire/ Primary. Although Ice Sword is at least semi-decent, Ice seems to lend itself more to ranged combat.
I've no plans to take any sleep powers at all, since personally I'm far too fond of spamming AoEs... but at the risk of repeating myself: It makes sense for Blasters to keep all their mitigation options open, since as an AT Blasters will generally need extra mitigation more than extra damage.
On the other hand, for Tankers it is just the opposite. Tankers have so much mitigation that it's oozing out of their ears, but /Ice Tankers will have very little in the way of damage output.
Finally, /Ice on a Blaster is called "Ice Manipulation". /Ice on a Tanker is called "Ice Melee". Thematically, at least, you could argue that manipulation deals more with control and melee deals more with attacks.
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Finally, /Ice on a Blaster is called "Ice Manipulation". /Ice on a Tanker is called "Ice Melee". Thematically, at least, you could argue that manipulation deals more with control and melee deals more with attacks.
[/ QUOTE ]You could also argue that a power with the same name should do the same thing, regardless of the AT using it
Like "Poison Trap" and "Poison Trap"? 
Or "Force of Nature" and "Force of Nature"? 
As I said, 'should do', not 'always does'
I am not sure if I am happy about it tbh as I had plans. Deffo leave blaster ice melee alone though.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Buff /Ice Melee Blasters please.
The T9 is dumb.
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Buff /Ice Melee Blasters please.
The T9 is dumb.
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Beyond dumb
I've had my Ice/Ice blaster since 2 months after EU release. Never ever have I felt the need to even try that Tier 9. I got more than enough damage mitigation out of Ice Patch.
I would however like some of the damage back that ED took away.
Dumb as in lacking some usual property, characteristic, etc. Well sometimes the lacking of a usual property can be helpful to some people.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Dumb as in lacking some usual property, characteristic, etc. Well sometimes the lacking of a usual property can be helpful to some people.
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Is this another one of your stupid "tactics" which you swear blind are brilliant but never tell anyone exactly what they are?
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Dumb as in lacking some usual property, characteristic, etc. Well sometimes the lacking of a usual property can be helpful to some people.
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Is this another one of your stupid "tactics" which you swear blind are brilliant but never tell anyone exactly what they are?
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I don't see how you can define what you don't know as "stupid" and your right I don't just tell anyone with good reason. Some people would rather not know. Some people I don't care to know (mainly those with selfish builds and arrogant attitudes) and some people I either have or will show certain things sometime. My favourite thing right now is getting planted in PuGs with lovely people who do communicate with each other, offer support to each other and try to form some sort of dynamic ie those that are learning for themselves.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Dumb as in lacking some usual property, characteristic, etc. Well sometimes the lacking of a usual property can be helpful to some people.
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Is this another one of your stupid "tactics" which you swear blind are brilliant but never tell anyone exactly what they are?
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As I mentioned above, personally I'm not going to take an AoE sleep... but I can see cases where it could be useful. Sonic's Siren's Song for example is seen as a great soloing tool because it negates a spawn while you pick them off one-by-one. I suppose /Ice could use it in cases where a mob type is resistant to Knockback, or versus Clockwork (WEAK to Knockback so they bounce off your Ice Patch)
The stacking thing? The only thing I can think of is to negate bosses, since that's the only cases where it'd be used. I imagine that rather than stacking it with ANOTHER power, Castle is talking about self-stacking. If Mid's is right, Blaster FA can be perma-double-stacked... but if it did damage, it couldn't be.
Blaster /Ice not doing enough damage is a valid point, but given past dev action I imagine that'd be looked at seperately. "Fix a bad power" and "Fix the overall damage output of a powerset" being seen as different issues.
Blaster FA could be useful with the chance of placate proc.
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You could also argue that a power with the same name should do the same thing, regardless of the AT using it
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Yes. -DMG for dominator CE please.
I really should do something about this signature.
Frozen aura can be gotten down to every 8 secs with a duration of about 43 secs. Thats says at least Mag 10 to me. Thats might keep things quiet for a while and push back streak breakers especially when not everything is effected by ice slick neither. Not everyone is a fan of secondary effects but I am. Sometimes in order to do the most damage you have to live that bit longer. Anyway without getting to the points the points I fancied properly testing it on (Culex has helped a bit anyway and gave me one "don't bother"). I can't say I am completely gutted about the change coming especially as there is always more than one way to skin a catfish.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Blaster FA could be useful with the chance of placate proc.
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You could also argue that a power with the same name should do the same thing, regardless of the AT using it
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Yes. -DMG for dominator CE please.
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And the taunt would really help, especially if it could overcome AA
"Well, they found my diary today.
They were appropriately appalled
at the discovery of the eight victims
They're now putting it all together.
Women wrapped in silk
with one leg missing
Eight legs, one body, silk,
spider, brilliant!"
From here
Now pray Castle isn't pulling your leg and simply adding a .3 DS damage portion 
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Adding damage to Frozen Aura is easy (look at the Training Room in the near future, in fact...) but addressing the rest of the powers is NOT as easy as you'd think. Front loading one or two powers so they perform better than they "should" is an option, but I'm hesitant to do so.
Anyway, just wanted to poke my head in and give a brief glimpse into the thought process, and to give a bit of advance warning on the FA thing.
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Congrats to Tundara and the others
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I'd have a herd of rabid otters tossed at me if I did that. I ain't that stupid!
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Will this affect the blaster version of FA?
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No, as that would eliminate it's ability to stack.
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- Castle