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If this was ever close to be true, not anymore. They are the worst AT for team pvp along with scrappers hero side (khelds aside), and after epics nerf, damage input on most of them is as [censored] that its hillarious
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Please tell me how trollers are the worst AT for team pvp? Ill/emp? Ill/kin? Grav/Sonic? They all are ubar in team pvp.
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They are only good for being used as pseudo defenders. Holds are pretty useless for team pvp, and only the buffs/debuffs/cages/tk are useful. Defenders can do that better, and they are less squishy
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3) Break Frees aren't that big a deal, my Blaster has no problem holding through them
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I'd really like to see that. If it was true then I would say blasters are REALLY overpowered, but they cant, ever
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An Ice primary Blaster has 2 holds, that chain pretty well. An Ice/Ice Blaster has 3. An Ice/Ice/[Fire/Elec] has 4, all with good animation times and recharges. Mine has just two holds, and believe me, it doesn't take long to hold through a Break Free. Four Blaster holds, I believe. Really not that big a deal with Hold IOs, Powerboost and set bonuses.
To be honest, you haven't even read my post. You say how Controllers suck team PVP. I said they own 1v1. I say Blasters can easily 2 shot with BU and Aim, and they should be able to, and you say exactly the same thing while trying to make it sound like an attack on me. I say the best specced Controllers can beat the best specced Blasters/Scrappers, and you say how the worst specced Controller can't. All you are doing is saying the same thing as me with reversed ends, there was really no need for your silly post.
Yes. My Ice/Energy probably would beat a Stone/FF. But no Blaster has a hope in hell of beating a well specced /Storm or /Rad if they play right. Yeah! Blasters get Acrobatics! Absolutely zero protection against Controller holds. Apparently that makes their mez protection "through the roof". Controllers get Indominable Will. IIRC, it's 5 of my Blaster's holds through that.
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They are only good for being used as pseudo defenders. Holds are pretty useless for team pvp, and only the buffs/debuffs/cages/tk are useful. Defenders can do that better, and they are less squishy
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You clearly have been PVPing incorrectly. Let's have a look, shall we?
Ill/Emp. Bonuses over Empathy Defender?
-More Damage
-Holds
-Chance for Indominable Will
-Confuse
-Pets
-Invisibility
-Terror
Earth/FF over Energy/FF?
-Huge holds
-Earthquake
-Quicksand
What does a Defender get? Sure, on the surface it seems like damage, but in practice we all know the Controller will do a lot more.
There is no way you can say Controllers suck 1v1 and in teams. Nothing beats you in holding or confusing capability in the entire game- and Confuse is, in my opinion, one of the most overpowered mezzes especially when coupled with many pets. Am I asking for it to be nerfed? No. It doesn't need to be. Controllers don't need to be, Blasters don't need to be, and Regen doesn't need to be. Regen can be pretty tough to play in PVP against burst damage Blappers, or against anything with holding capabilities. My Storm Defender managed to take one out in the arena just due to Endurance drain from Lightning Cloud, and the Regen was properly slotted and had way more +recovery than necessary from bonuses.
It is only on the odd occassion anything needs nerfing in PVP, especially in this game. Amidst players with the same skill, PVP is simply a large bout of Rock, Paper, Scissors. Some powers beat others, some tactics beat others.
Controllers get Pets for helping to confuse people tabbing between targets and Hibernate.
In large team fights Control is largely useless. As are Location AoE's. As for Invis- Stealth/Celerity, also most teams will be rocking at least form of +Perc so that's not a huge help.
This rules out the following in your list:
Ill/Emp. Bonuses over Empathy Defender?
-More Damage
-Holds
-Chance for Indominable Will
-Confuse
-Pets
-Invisibility
-Terror
Earth/FF over Energy/FF?
-Huge holds
-Earthquake
-Quicksand
Basically everything. Maybe a Controller could contribute damage or mez wise if the other team was moving like dick - but then that'd be a bad move by that team, not a good one by the controller.
This is all in my opinion, your mileage may vary but I'd expect it's sentiments to be echoed by some people.
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3) Break Frees aren't that big a deal, my Blaster has no problem holding through them
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I'd really like to see that. If it was true then I would say blasters are REALLY overpowered, but they cant, ever
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An Ice primary Blaster has 2 holds, that chain pretty well. An Ice/Ice Blaster has 3. An Ice/Ice/[Fire/Elec] has 4, all with good animation times and recharges. Mine has just two holds, and believe me, it doesn't take long to hold through a Break Free. Four Blaster holds, I believe. Really not that big a deal with Hold IOs, Powerboost and set bonuses.
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Bearing in mind you need 6 controller holds stacked to hold thru a break free, and given that trollers' hold mag is twice the one that blasters have, that would mean that blasters should stack 12 holds to effectively hold thru a single break free. I'm up to come on any non mez resistant toon and test for you anytime
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To be honest, you haven't even read my post. You say how Controllers suck team PVP. I said they own 1v1.
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And I say I'll duel you anytime on any of your trollers to find out if they are so overpowered, as long as it's from 4pm on and not on weekend
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I say Blasters can easily 2 shot with BU and Aim, and they should be able to, and you say exactly the same thing while trying to make it sound like an attack on me.
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Not really, I say some can even 1shot with DoT defenders and blasters (who got +25% hp than trollers), and that without the need of inspis or defiance.
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I say the best specced Controllers can beat the best specced Blasters/Scrappers, and you say how the worst specced Controller can't. All you are doing is saying the same thing as me with reversed ends
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And I say any well specced ice/nrg/ice blaster, for instance, should wipe any controller out of the map on a duel
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there was really no need for your silly post.
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Well, I also considered your post pretty silly, but I was polite enough not to mention
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Yes. My Ice/Energy probably would beat a Stone/FF. But no Blaster has a hope in hell of beating a well specced /Storm or /Rad if they play right.
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Then bring on your uber troller to arena and I'll use my gimped ice/nrg blaster to find out
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Yeah! Blasters get Acrobatics! Absolutely zero protection against Controller holds. Apparently that makes their mez protection "through the roof". Controllers get Indominable Will. IIRC, it's 5 of my Blaster's holds through that.
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The fact that you use your blaster to stack holds speaks a lot of how good you are in PvP tbh
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They are only good for being used as pseudo defenders. Holds are pretty useless for team pvp, and only the buffs/debuffs/cages/tk are useful. Defenders can do that better, and they are less squishy
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You clearly have been PVPing incorrectly. Let's have a look, shall we?
Ill/Emp. Bonuses over Empathy Defender?
-More Damage
-Holds
-Chance for Indominable Will
-Confuse
-Pets
-Invisibility
-Terror
Earth/FF over Energy/FF?
-Huge holds
-Earthquake
-Quicksand
What does a Defender get? Sure, on the surface it seems like damage, but in practice we all know the Controller will do a lot more.
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Using an ill/emp means you are playing the empath role. That means no damage, no holds, and mainly no indomitable will. Being an ill/emp u really want power boost in your build
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There is no way you can say Controllers suck 1v1 and in teams. Nothing beats you in holding or confusing capability in the entire game
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Domis do
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- and Confuse is, in my opinion, one of the most overpowered mezzes especially when coupled with many pets.
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Hehehe what can I say after statements like these
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Regen can be pretty tough to play in PVP against burst damage Blappers
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Funny since regens are the blaster killers, along with tanks
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My Storm Defender managed to take one out in the arena just due to Endurance drain from Lightning Cloud, and the Regen was properly slotted and had way more +recovery than necessary from bonuses.
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Hillarious, really
I agree 100% with _Chi_, any decent controller player should at the minimum be able to hold its own in a 1 on 1 situation. Team pvp i would argue they'r more usefull than a defender. I would rather an ill/anything controller than any defender on my team pvp (before you ask i do pvp a lot but mainly with sg members/friends/random people).
Spectral Terror, ice slick, earthquake, Wormhole, TK - - - - - All perfect ways to give your controller enough time to lay your debuffs down and start ownin him. And damage is rarely an issue especially with epics 
I know plenty of good players who can outdamage most ATs DPS on their controllers, even my ill/rad/fire was able to out damage 2 scrappers at once.
And how the hell are blaster and regens overpowered? Regens are easy kills if you know how to counter them (granted iv faced some very good regens in the past whether they still pvp though i dont know, ultimateregen-ninja you still out there? 
), so stop whinin and making stupid idiotic posts like these because all youv achieved is making everyones view on you negative.
Always going to be someone better than you, thats why we have the kaizan ( i think its spelt like that? its late ) effect, to be constantly improving!!!!
Now . . . . . im in the pvp mood
@Damz Find me on the global channel Union Chat. One of the best "chat channels" ingame!
NERF ARCHERY BLASTERS!
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NERF ARCHERY BLASTERS!
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QFT, we own too much.
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NERF ARCHERY BLASTERS!
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QFT, we own too much.
[/ QUOTE ]Tbh, I think all the attacks should do -hp, ET style.
I mean, seriously. Archery. Wow.
Yeah, I mean it's a good thing you can't get archery/traps corruptors otherwise they would be all you see in PvP... I mean Rad/Traps is overpowered enough (I hear Blasters didn't get Rad Blast because its too powerful), but Archery!?! :O
@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
I still regret not making Vahiki arch/ice instead. 
I do not pvp at all if I can help it as I suc at it and will be the first to say so ,would the player who started this post have said that his alt was overpowered,if he was kicking everyone elses butts.I doubt it he/she would be saying how good am I look how I kick a**,all I can say is stop whineing and learn to live with defeat most blasters do in pve as their normal position when in teams or on their own is face down in the dirt cause they cannot take damage,here endeth my rant happy playing folks. 
Prof Radburn controller,Celtic Ice Maiden,blaster,Miss Knockout scrapper,Mistress Davina controller,Stone Hart,tank Split Personality PB.Queen Lostris controller,Fridgid Mary blaster,Shocking Fire blaster Future Elfling defender, Little Weed controller,Capo Angelo MM, Commander Buzzsaw MM, Justice Tank tank all 50,s
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5) Having high mez resistance doesn't decrease the time you are mezzed
[/ QUOTE ]Wrong. That's exactly (and only) what mez resistance does. Don't confuse it with mez protection.
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They are only good for being used as pseudo defenders. Holds are pretty useless for team pvp, and only the buffs/debuffs/cages/tk are useful. Defenders can do that better, and they are less squishy
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You clearly have been PVPing incorrectly. Let's have a look, shall we?
Ill/Emp. Bonuses over Empathy Defender?
-More Damage
-Holds
-Chance for Indomitable Will
-Confuse
-Pets
-Invisibility
-Terror
Earth/FF over Energy/FF?
-Huge holds
-Earthquake
-Quicksand
What does a Defender get? Sure, on the surface it seems like damage, but in practice we all know the Controller will do a lot more.
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Using an ill/emp means you are playing the empath role. That means no damage, no holds, and mainly no indomitable will. Being an ill/emp u really want power boost in your build
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Ah yes because we all know that Controllers name have nothing to do with Controlling their real name is actually Defenders-with-nerfed-primary-that-is-a-secondary-and-a-primary-trat-does-not-control-just-suck-end-better-spendt-healing [/sarcasm off]
[Sarcasm On] Darn, something about this post keeps switching it on...[/sarcasm off]
Empathy allows the OPTION of being a heavily supportive, not a law-enforced need to.
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Regen can be pretty tough to play in PVP against burst damage Blappers
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Funny since regens are the blaster killers, along with tanks
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They kill blasters the same way as brick walls kill bikers, they tend to squash people too dumb to steer around them, or foolhardy enough to think they can pass through if they just go fast enough.
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Hilarious, really
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Yes, truly hilarious.
Now it's fairly obvious that this is an attempt at being funny, as such complete ignorance of and disregard for bacic AT functionality can ONLY be an act
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Funny since regens are the blaster killers, along with tanks
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Uh what? Regens are no more blaster killers than blasters are regen killers... Good players at the helm doing a duel should propably be a 0-0 draw, or come down to player error. At least last time I played. Tankers are something else altogether.
Agree with Hammer.
There's a few exceptions (Spines/Weapon Mastery, or Snowstorm/Devices lockdowns) but it'll be pretty much a draw Blaster-to-Regen unless they get careless.
Fire/EM or Ice/EM Tankers though would seem to be more difficult to force a draw with. Loads of Resistance + Healing or Slow Protection + Hibern00b, and you'd be burning Breakfrees most of the match.
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Ah yes because we all know that Controllers name have nothing to do with Controlling their real name is actually Defenders-with-nerfed-primary-that-is-a-secondary-and-a-primary-trat-does-not-control-just-suck-end-better-spendt-healing [/sarcasm off]
[Sarcasm On] Darn, something about this post keeps switching it on...[/sarcasm off]
Empathy allows the OPTION of being a heavily supportive, not a law-enforced need to.
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Given that you seem to have PvPed an amount of times I can count with just one hand, I'll try and be a bit clearer.
Holds are useless in team pvp, no matter what. Every PvP team will have 1-2 empaths and a sonic that will have the whole team mez protected forever... and I do mean forever.
Illu/empaths are used in PvP because they get superior invis without having to sacrifice a pool for that, nor a prequisite power. They were way fashionable pre-IOs because they could heal/buffed while invis, while defenders couldn't. Every single decent illu/emp PvP specced will focus heavily on the empath side, and just use their primary to get some good set buffs. That also goes for any /kin, /sonic, /ff and any secondary you can think of, when it comes to team PvP
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Hilarious, really
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Yes, truly hilarious.
Now it's fairly obvious that this is an attempt at being funny, as such complete ignorance of and disregard for bacic AT functionality can ONLY be an act
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Once again I'll try and be clearer...
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My Storm Defender managed to take one out in the arena just due to Endurance drain from Lightning Cloud, and the Regen was properly slotted and had way more +recovery than necessary from bonuses.
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I can stand under lighting cloud with my rad defender with 9 toggles on, some of them as enddraining as EF, while spamming attacks without end problems at all, so just the simple idea of a regen propperly slotted and with +recovery bonuses being drained out of it is HILLARIOUS with capital letters
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Given that you seem to have PvPed an amount of times I can count with just one hand, I'll try and be a bit clearer.
Holds are useless in team pvp, no matter what. Every PvP team will have 1-2 empaths and a sonic that will have the whole team mez protected forever... and I do mean forever.
Illu/empaths are used in PvP because they get superior invis without having to sacrifice a pool for that, nor a prequisite power. They were way fashionable pre-IOs because they could heal/buffed while invis, while defenders couldn't. Every single decent illu/emp PvP specced will focus heavily on the empath side, and just use their primary to get some good set buffs. That also goes for any /kin, /sonic, /ff and any secondary you can think of, when it comes to team PvP [ QUOTE ]
I have PvP'ed quite a bit but i never have and i will never, NEVER! PvP in the sad, sad enviroment you're describing, i pity you and the ones you PvP with, sacrificing originality and individuality to create a army of Copy+Paste PvP clone troopers, i wouldnt be suprised if the crowd described have all grey characters with nearly identical names to confuse enemies...
When i PvP it is on a significantly less focused basis, against others who had fun builds, and actually win with them.
Throwing people left and right, dropping them from high altitudes.
I gues the difference is i have fun trying to win winning in itself is no fun in it self.
So i guess im a "fukn gimp kasual carebear" as the WoW-heads coined the phrase
On another node if there so much arguing about PvP efficiency one could take the kindergarden approch:
If you can't share the toy and stop arguing ill it away from you both.
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I have PvP'ed quite a bit but i never have and i will never, NEVER! PvP in the sad, sad enviroment you're describing, i pity you and the ones you PvP with, sacrificing originality and individuality to create a army of Copy+Paste PvP clone troopers, i wouldnt be suprised if the crowd described have all grey characters with nearly identical names to confuse enemies...
When i PvP it is on a significantly less focused basis, against others who had fun builds, and actually win with them.
Throwing people left and right, dropping them from high altitudes.
I gues the difference is i have fun trying to win winning in itself is no fun in it self.
So i guess im a "fukn gimp kasual carebear" as the WoW-heads coined the phrase
On another node if there so much arguing about PvP efficiency one could take the kindergarden approch:
If you can't share the toy and stop arguing ill it away from you both.
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Are you sure? lol.
But i think we are starting to twist the argument, it was about Blasters and /regen Scrappers being *Impossible* for a Controller to defeat one on one.
Not that variety gimping min-maxed PvP specific teams, makes all non- empathy Defender/Controllers redundant.
[edit] Yes "lol", never said i had much sicces though, but like i said to me it's about trying to win, not succeding at it.
Same reason some people go hunt a deer with a bow istead of just wacking ants with a hammer.
Well obviously with your 'funny' builds you won't kill a troller with your blaster, but it's not that blasters can't or shouldn't win, it's just your 'funny' builds which makes it hard. About the 'copy & paste' thingie.. well yeah, we all play alike, smashing buttons and that... and yeah we try different variations with our builds too, and come up what works best. That is what you could also do if you had gone past 35, according to your sig
Don't get me wrong, if you are happy PvPing that way kudos for that, some others prefer some slightly higher standards in PvP than fighting a team where troller holds make a difference, that's all
Im not trying to start a further argument here just wanted to make my point perfectly clear.
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Well obviously with your 'funny' builds you won't kill a troller with A blaster, but it's not that blasters can't or shouldn't win, it's just your 'funny' builds which makes it hard.
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I never said I believed blasters should be unable to defeat a controller, if s/he knows what s/he's doing it should indeed be very doable.
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About the 'copy & paste' thingie.. well yeah, we all play alike, smashing buttons and that... and yeah we try different variations with our builds too, and come up what works best.
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And that was a mistake on my part, I got a bit snappy, and assumed (and assuming makes an [censored] of me I know), that all PvP'ers are attached by the hip to the US-boards PvP build list "for maxxximum powah".
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That is what you could also do if you had gone past 35, according to your sig
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That I have no proper reply to, I'm an altoholic.
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Don't get me wrong, if you are happy PvPing that way kudos for that, some others prefer some slightly higher standards in PvP than fighting a team where troller holds make a difference, that's all
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And that is likely where my "Carebear" nature plays in, as I dislike the idea of forcing Controllers to be second rate Defenders with stealth, but I guess that's what the game's like in high-profile competitive PvP
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Well obviously with your 'funny' builds you won't kill a troller with your blaster, but it's not that blasters can't or shouldn't win, it's just your 'funny' builds which makes it hard. About the 'copy & paste' thingie.. well yeah, we all play alike, smashing buttons and that... and yeah we try different variations with our builds too, and come up what works best. That is what you could also do if you had gone past 35, according to your sig
Don't get me wrong, if you are happy PvPing that way kudos for that, some others prefer some slightly higher standards in PvP than fighting a team where troller holds make a difference, that's all
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While I agree that holds are very very weak in a team pvp situation (not always, like in open-ended pvp like the zones they have use), but its not like the 'so-called' high-end team pvp is somehow more preferable. Its just the way it is and the good teams seem to vary very little. I like team pvp in coh less and less these days. In fact pvp in general less and less and henceforth the whole game.
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If this was ever close to be true, not anymore. They are the worst AT for team pvp along with scrappers hero side (khelds aside), and after epics nerf, damage input on most of them is as [censored] that its hillarious
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Please tell me how trollers are the worst AT for team pvp? Ill/emp? Ill/kin? Grav/Sonic? They all are ubar in team pvp.