i thought the AreaModifier is always to negative the buff, that its the single target powers that will get the bigger buff. (at least thats what i read from the testserver patch notes).
Snipe shots seem to give a nice bonus 
I wonder what FA and flametrower will give on buff 
(4 and 3sec)
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I confess to being lost as to how exactly, shortening the activation times of all these powers is supposed to be "DEFIANCE THE NEXT GENERATION".
I realise that whislt the current Defiance is active, Blasters would get off more shots and thus do more damage (Endurance permitting of course!) but.... they still have to be near the redline healthwise and run the same risk of face planting that they have now.
Also, Defiance is supposed to be the BLASTER inherant power but these changes actually improve things for a whole slew of ATS so its not exactly a "focused" solution to the "perceived" problems of Defiance is it?
Don't get me wrong here, I am not complaining about this situation. I like the idea of improved activation times for many of my alts and, whilst it could probably do with a little bit of love from the Devs, I think that Defiance as it stands is nowhere near as gimped as its made out to be. You just need to have the right approach to playing it.
So, I get back to my question, which I think is a valid one, how can shortening activation times across the board be "DEFIANCE THE NEXT GENERATION"?
Faster/shorter -> more shots in short time -> more little buffs in a row -> more damage.
The 'normalisation' however was more focused to balance out the sets, there was a huge difference. That it indirectly is linked to defiance 2.0 is just an extra to balance out future issues with defiance (ice could gain way more dmg buff from 2.0 then a AR could).
So in short:
animationchanges = Balance overall (as it included TA and Mace)
Defiance 2.0 = 12,5% ranged buff, mezzed tier1/2 shoot, new bonus system as in OP.
Normalisation is linked, but not part off defiance 2.0
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[ QUOTE ]
I confess to being lost as to how exactly, shortening the activation times of all these powers is supposed to be "DEFIANCE THE NEXT GENERATION".
[/ QUOTE ]
It's not. The animation times were only changed because the fire-when-mezzed part of the new defiance depended on the tier one and two blasts being roughly equal utility across all primaries.
The bit that's meant to be "defiance the next generation" is the combination of:
(i) Fire-When-Mezzed for Tier 1/2 (Primary) and Tier 1 (Secondary)
(ii) 12.5% Base Ranged Damage bonus
(iii) "Frankenfury" (All attacks add a short-term stacking damage buff)
Part (iii) is the bit that we're only just starting to get accurate information on. All the animation changes were due to "Balancing" the Primary Powersets so that Part (i) wouldn't overbuff/underbuff any particular set(s).
Ahh so this change to the activation times is more a general balancing act across the sets that will help PAVE THE WAY for other improvemtns to Defiance later on. Is that it?
EDIT: Will the part ii and part iii above be specific only to the Blaster AT or are they also going to be "across the board" improvements? If it's acros the board, it still strikes me that a hell of a lot of other ATs are going to benefit from what is essentiall a "fix" to a perceived problem in the BLASTEER AT.
No to your edit:
(i), (ii) and (iii) are defiance 2.0, blaster only inherent.
The general balance is done to match ALL sets more together, of ALL AT's. Only those that wouldnt benefit, or would loose efficiency are left alone.
I asume the normalisation initialy came from Defiance 2.0 part (i) and (iii), but are extended to a full review of alot of sets, thus became a complete seperate 'global fix' to CoH/V and each AT.
It is not only activation time (hence i call it normalisation), but also redraw timing, rooting time and after-power delay. And for some even recharge time (archery).
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Ah, now it beomes clear. thanks for that!
I presume that these boosts will then totally replace the exisiting system and that Blasters will NOT get bonuses to damage as their health lowers.
If that is the case, I have to say I like the new idea. Ok, you may not get the blaster damage that you used to when you had only a tiny sliver of health left, something like a 400% bonus I think? but the bonus you DO get isprety much available all the time and at much less risk.
It strikes me that the main benefit will be to thoe Blaters who play at range so I do wonder what the Blappers will make of these changes.
EDIT: To any Devs reading this I now totally withdraw my dcriticism in my earlier post about the fix to Defiance being "unfocused". This is actually a very complex and detailed approach to the whole issue and as a player, its reasuring to see such care taken over changes to the game.
Yup, totaly replace the old defiance.
Blappers were stupid in the first place anyway
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Well, Castle apparently has said that Blasters will be looking at a BIG damage buff in terms of what they'll be at after the changes.
[ QUOTE ]
Incidently, Castle PMed me with the expected buff numbers for the average player: 70-100% extra damage on an aggressive but non-optimized build. They're serious about this stuff, folks -- that kind of damage is a return to pre-ED levels of damage, just not in the alpha strike itself.
[/ QUOTE ]
The "Frankenfury" part of the new inherent will apply equally well to the Blapps as Ranged attacks. So Blappers will benefit from the stacking damage buffs too... (and in fact, my Sonic/Elec Blaster is now looking better than ever with -resistance, cast time buffs, stacking +damage buffs and heavy blapps!)
*already imagining a 100% dmg buff, Buildup and popping Full Auto*
AGAIN AGAIN!!
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just followed that link over to the post on the US forums and I have to say that this looks like being a gash darned HUGE boost to the Blaster AT. 
The other thing that strikes me is that they don't even need to give away a freespec to everyone when it launches as, no matter what your build, its gonna be fantastic!
[ QUOTE ]
It strikes me that the main benefit will be to thoe Blaters who play at range so I do wonder what the Blappers will make of these changes.
[/ QUOTE ]The 12.5% base damage buff for ranged attacks isn't enough to boost ranged damage above melee damage.
Defiance 2.0 is bugged on the testserver
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is this going be like brute fury but only builds when the number of attacks increases?
Sortlike, but each buff is static on time. Unlike fury wich keep going up as long you are in combat, defiance attacks will just end the buff after 7.5sec.
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Castle posted a slightly corrected formula:
[ QUOTE ]
(Quick Reply)
First off, I edited the formula I posted before, so take a look at that.
Secondly, the formula as posted is NOT what the spreadsheets use to calculate things; it's a reverse engineering of what is being used.
Last, the AreaModifier is only used for AOE attacks. For single target attacks, it is ignored completely (so, no divide by zero errors!)
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
(Quick Reply)
Aside from simply editing the original post, I'll add this here:
FYI, here is the formula currently being used:
Buff: 0.66* (0.1 * CastTime) / AreaModifier
Duration: 7.5 + CastTime
CastTime is the cast time of the power
Area Modifier = (1 + (0.15 * radius)) - (0.011 * radius / 6)
[/ QUOTE ]
Lets run a few quick numbers through that:
+ For "Blaze" (ST, 1 second activation):
Duration = 7.5 + 1
Buff = 0.66 * (0.1 * 1) = 0.066
= 6.6% Damage buff for 8.5 seconds.
+ For "Fire Ball" (15 Foot Radius AoE, 1 second activation):
Duration = 7.5 + 1
Buff = 0.66 * (0.1 * 1) / ((1 + (0.15 * 15)) - (0.011 * 15 / 6))
= 0.066 / (3.25 - 0.0275) = 0.02048
= 2.0% Damage Buff for 8.5 seconds.
+ For "Shout" (ST, 2.67 seconds activation)
Duration = 7.5 + 2.67
Buff = 0.66 * (0.1 * 2.67) = 0.17622
= 17.6% Damage buff for 10.17 seconds.
+ For "Fire Breath" (Cone with a range of 40 Feet, 2.67 seconds activation):
Duration = 7.5 + 2.67
Buff = 0.66 * (0.1 * 2.67) / ((1 + (0.15 * 40)) - (0.011 * 40 / 6))
= 0.17622 / (7 - 0.07333) = 0.02544
= 2.5% Damage Buff for 10.17 seconds.
+ For "Total Focus" (ST, 3.3 second activation)
Duration = 7.5 + 3.3
Buff = 0.66 * (0.1 * 3.3) = 0.2178
= 21.8% Damage buff for 10.8 seconds.
+ For "Thunder Strike" (5 Foot Radius AoE, 3.3 second activation)
Duration = 7.5 + 3.3
Buff = 0.66 * (0.1 * 3.3) / ((1 + (0.15 * 5)) - (0.011 * 5 / 6))
= 0.2178 / (1.75 - 0.009166666) = 0.12511
= 12.5% Damage buff for 10.8 seconds.
+ For "Blazing Bolt" (ST, 4.67 seconds Activation Time):
Duration = 7.5 + 4.67
Buff = 0.66 * (0.1 * 4.67) = 0.30822
= 30.8% Damage buff for 12.17 seconds.
Looks fairly decent to me...
Although I think Cones might need to be looked at... apparently they currently work by treating them as an AoE-centered-on-the-player so that the cone's "range" becomes an AoE "radius". If my numbers are right, this seems to be giving them vastly lower 'defiance 2.1' damage buff numbers than is appropriate for the amount of enemies that small-arc cones are likely to hit.
Hm, so starting of with a snipe gives a awsome damage boost (Ice still has BFR to compensate it - and a huge ST attack chain).
But if you're right about cone's, FA would give a pathetic low buff (it has a huge cone range) not to mention LRM mission (snipe range AoE).
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Ack, found another post by Arcanaville that addresses the Cone Issue:
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The area modifier for AoE attacks with regard to damage is (refactoring it so it looks like Castle's expression):
1 + 0.15 * radius/5 - (0.011 * radius/6) * (360 - arc)/5
Castle's formula (his corrected formula) drops the highlighted part. If its deliberate, Castle wants all cones with the same range to have the same buff, regardless of how wide they are. If not, it might be an "oopsie."
This assumes Castle is referring to the original AoE damage modifier formula, and not some new one he made up more recently. He is the powers guy, after all.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, you're correct. That step is a third step of obfuscation away (it's never actually mentioned in the formula, but implicit in the table data layout.) I hate reverse engineering things. The whole Area Modifier thing was set up by geko (or possibly the guy BEFORE him) pre-release, and hasn't really been looked at since.
[/ QUOTE ]
THIS WOULD MAKE THE FOLLOWING CHANGES TO THE ABOVE EXAMPLES:
+ For "Fire Breath" (Cone with a range of 40 Feet, 2.67 seconds activation and 30' Arc):
Duration = 7.5 + 2.67
Buff = 0.66 * (0.1 * 2.67) / ((1 + (0.15 * 40)) - (0.011 * 40 / 6)) * (360 - 30) / 5
= 0.17622 / (7 - (0.07333 * 66)) = 0.081583333
= 8.2% Damage Buff for 10.17 seconds.
A little better, no? 
[ QUOTE ]
But if you're right about cone's, FA would give a pathetic low buff (it has a huge cone range) not to mention LRM mission (snipe range AoE).
[/ QUOTE ]
With those new numbers:
+ For "Full Auto" (Cone with a range of 80 Feet, 6 seconds activation and 20' Arc):
Duration = 7.5 + 6
Buff = 0.66 * (0.1 * 6) / ((1 + (0.15 * 80)) - (0.011 * 80 / 6)) * (360 - 20) / 5
= 0.396 / (13 - (0.14666666 * 68)) = 0.130837
= 13.1% Damage Buff for 13.5 seconds.
LRM is just a long ranged AoE, and range doesn't matter for a "true" AoE, only Radius.
+ For "LRM Rocket" (AoE with a range of 150 Feet, 5.87 seconds activation and 20 Radius):
Duration = 7.5 + 5.87
Buff = 0.66 * (0.1 * 5.87) / ((1 + (0.15 * 20)) - (0.011 * 20 / 6))
= 0.38742 / (4 - 0.03666) = 0.097751
= 9.8% Damage Buff for 13.37 seconds.
13.37 sec, so leet!
Numbers look pretty nice, makes you feel bitty like Dual Blades, you have to look at good combo's in order to reach efficient high dmg bonus
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Damnit I open with Frost Breath before running into melee, that's fairly pointless now I guess
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They were appropriately appalled
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Ok, now that I have a clearer understanding of how this new Defiance is going to work I am sooooooo looking forward to it cominng on line! It's gonna make my Ice/Ice and Fire/Firw Blasters totally brutal!
Currently its still bugged afaik, we dont get it on testserver untill everything is working properly.
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It does indeed seem a bit like the DB Combo System - in terms of creating a power-chain to get a satisfying damage bonus.
Although the Combo system is player-friendlym, signifying each time which power to shoot up to achieve a specific combo.
Now, we know that not all players have a hobby of number grinding (using the given formula) not to mention the new players, who will create the "New Generation" blasters.
Makes me wonder, how will the fore-mentioned, cope with the new system and truly benefit from it, since they wont really know which powers gives them more/less damage buff.
So far my testing have to say its pretty impressive. Note the fact i never, or hardly, got on such low HP then i could benefit from old defiance much.
But rikti suddenly became so much easier
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Source
[ QUOTE ]
FYI, here is the formula currently being used:
Buff: 0.66* (0.1 * CastTime) / AreaModifier
Duration: 7.5 + CastTime
CastTime is the cast time of the power
Area Modifier = ((1 + 0.15) * radius) - (0.11 * Arc in degrees / 6)
[/ QUOTE ]
According to that formula... slower-casting attacks, smaller radiuses and larger arcs will produce more of a damage buff.
I'm not sure it's 100% accurate though (at least 100% accurate when applied to our old city-of-data i7 numbers) since for ST attacks (zero radius, zero arc) we'd get an area modifier of zero and AoE attacks don't have arc values listed.
The few numbers I've run through it (assuming an Arc/Radius of 1 degree/1 foot for ST attacks) come out at about a 6% damage buff for each of the quicker-casting attacks. Will be interesting to see how this turns out.