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Well if you consider the rule that exist when exampling. If you slot all lvl 50 IO's, then if you enter, WB, SC or BB ( lol BB) then these sets won't take effect. So it's already implemented to some extent.
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For me this was a great first step, however what i think it lead to is a situation where characters are further specialised by being enhanced for a specific level of combat (all level 33's for Sirens etc)
Personally i think the inclusion of the set bonus-less zone/arena option could do nothing but help increase the PvP community. The IO'd set users can avoid the place like the plague and the casual players have a place to build up there skills and knowledge in a place where all things are still not equal (when are they ever) but at least it's a place where the SO's PvP newbie with the more "lol PvP" build can feel like with a bit more luck/planning he might have actually landed the kill.
Hell, if they think that, some of them might even hang around long enough to get seriously into it and "graduate" to more hardcore PvP...
The pellet with the poisons in the Vessel with the Pessel, the Chalice from the Palace has the brew that is true...
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Again, totally understand.
But this is kind of illustrating why PvE'ers dont go into PvP zones. We tend not to go all-out to get accolades as soon as possible. Fine, thats our choice. Dosent bother us an awful lot as long as we do a fairly good job in PvE and have a laugh.
As you say, you worked jolly hard for your early accolade - and congrats to you. I can totally understand how you want to keep this.
But, the fact that you have it and I dont (quite deservedly, because thats the choices we made) means that should we PvP you have the upper hand. And I, like most PvE players, dont get a kick out of an unfair fight. Maybe you dont either, but the fact that it WILL be a fight loaded in your favour keeps me away from PvP.
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You said earlier that you just don't really like pvp... So you really meant that you don't like pvp because you think you will lose against people who have put effort into something? I see where you are coming from in a way and I accept that you may not have been intending to stir trouble but as I said the tone of the original post was a bit ugly.
Yes it's an unfair fight... But mostly because pvpers put effort into learning how to play in a different environment that is quite challenging. Ask that person how they kicked your butt. As TG said, almost everyone in pvp zones will be happy to tell you how to improve and combat their tactics!
Get some accolades, get some friends to help, get some inspirations! I don't go all out for accolades, but I try to be aware of what I have to do while lvling to have certain ones available in situations like being exemped for pvp, tf's... I'm sorry but effort = reward is a common part of life.
Other aspects of pvp need a makeover I agree! That said, removing rewards like accolades and set bonuses is a terrible idea. That's coming from a person who doesn't actually have many accolades or IO's in most zones. The point is, almost anyone can do well in pvp with good tactics, regardless of build/accolades and so on.
Some interesting points raised so i will answer in one post both.
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DIshing out rewards, will, at worse, do not harm - but I think energy is better spent addressing other issues. Does that make sense?
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It does from one point.But there is another reason why rewards are requested so much. For duration.And this is not only for PvE people but PvP population as well.I recall a chat with Imaginary a while ago.We came to conclusiont that even the hardcore PvPers despite loving PvP so much in CoX they got no reason to do it other than...killing.I gain absolutely nothing atm by PvPing.I got 5 400 PvP reputation toons as it is atm and when i step into a PvP zone there is nothing for me to look for other than some good fun and challenge.Rewards will give duration to PvP and badges imho are not serious rewards or PvP reputation unless they unlock the cap.Even then despite this being a small change it will make a LOT of difference for many PvPers.I PvP since day 1.My PvP rep could have skyrocketed by now.What do i have to show for it?A 400 PvP reputation badge that a 1-2 months PvPers can easily acquire as well.
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One (potential} problem with rewards is this:- It creates a capatalistic economy. THe more powerful (successful) players get more rewards making them more powerful still, etc etc.
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I suggested this sometime ago.Rewards dont have to be recipes or something based on a capitalistic system.Other PvP reward system could be fine.
A veteran PvP system would work perfect.With powers unlocked as you accumulate PvP reputation and locked as the PvP reputation decays.Would bind really nicely.An AoE buff for blasters and a variety of powers that could add some really nice spice in PvP and would be totally locked out in PvE the moment you step out the zone. Is totally disconnected from a capitalistic system and i bet would make the zones and arena full of people.
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If this was considered, I would urge the rewards to be ones that CAN, just as easily, be obtained in PvE so we dont get this cycle.
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I fully agree here provided the rewards were something that would fit in the capitalistic system.In my scenario with a veteran PvP system this thing should be exclusive to PvP to not create unbalance in PvE and to also make PvP more attractive.
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HOwever, that all changes in PvP. Why the heck would I want to enter a PvP zone with my laisez fare non min/maxed, PvE build toon?. Im fighting at a huge disadvantage.
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Fully agree on this.The only solution to this is a dual build system which SHOULD have been here a long time ago considering the effort necessary to get to 50 and how massively different PvP is to PvE in this game.
You know after i9 and i11 i have some faith in the devs restored and i am hoping that somewhere along the following issues we will get some radical PvP changes.
The leveling field you describe i will still support the Arena toggle option of accolades and IO's but total remove from PvP zones is a big no no from me.I still stand for the tremendous effort that needs to be put to make such toons.
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But I guess the psychology of it is? Why bother? All those PvP guys are at a straight power advantage anyway? Even if I can face trying to within without skill AND at a handicap, im still left with a toon that is gimped compared to all those PvP players with hardcore IO's, FoTM, PvP specific builds.
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The why is easy to answer. PvP is a far greater challenge.Those that decide to rise to the challenge are determined and will go through with it.Every single one of the core PvP community the so called veteran PvPers around here has gone through this process not once but multiple times.I play lately a fire/energy blaster.When i started fighting in PvP zones i swear i was cannon fodder.I died so much was unbelievable.At the moment i can hold my own against pretty much anything let alone the terror i spread to stalkers.This aint by chance.I died tons but i kept observing my weaknesses.Asked a lot of people to help me with my build and took advice from many like Phil,Globey etc.Attended a couple Arena nights to watch how others play their blasters. It was a curve everyone has to go through with every new toon to get the hand of it.
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Anyway, hope I have stimulated a few thoughts. I hope something happens to entice us guys into PvP
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as it is now with action having picked up a lot on Union with the transfers we are looking at creating some events that will address to casual PvPers as well. Prolly starting with a level 1-10 tournament or something like that will be a pretty even play field and moving on to creating some events within the zones to attract some more people.This is our own initiative at least as PvP community.
More to come soon 
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I hope something happens to entice us guys into PvP. Not because I want to PvP at the moment. But for two interconnected reasons. Firstly, it will make you PvP'ers happy (a good thing in itself), and Secondly, it will make the game as a whole more healthy, and therefore have greater longevity.
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Spot on.100% with you there.
Now moving on to Angelstar post:
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I'd disagree that PvE's dislike a level playing field, the difference between the 500m inf IO empath and an SO'd scrap IO user is negligable in PvE, the content was aimed at the SO level and thus while the IO'r is superior the SO's hold their ground.
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This wont be the case for long tho. I11 will change this a lot with IO Builds being very superior compared to SO builds when it comes to missions where you can set the parameters.And there the playing field changes a lot.
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Even if they do stay around a while, start learning their way around PvP they will still get hammered because of the difference in build and enhancements.
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This aint the usual case for many reasons. First of all you are talking duels here.Zones though and team arena are hugely different.In zones you get many X factors that turn the flow of the zone at any given moment.Anyone has the chance to kill anyone based on how they choose to fight their opponent.Want an example?when i solo with my blaster and there is a lot of people and i know i might get pounded i do occasionally some sneaky alliance.I ask a friend stalker to guard my back against a stalker on me while i chase someone else.Or i ask for an AS on someone that is on my case while i am on someone else.The zones are unpredictable and FoTM means nothing against tactics.
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Complete disabling of IO's would be a step backward and isn't the solution, but maybe making one of the zones and making it an arena option, set bonus free could certainly help to provide a place for the more casual PvP'er
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Agreed on the arena option.Also you need to keep in mind that almost noone has sets in SC and BB.And few of us got IO's in WB.Most IOed toons you will meet in RV.So this gives you 2 zones with little to totally no set IO's,one zone that people might choose to bring in sets at the expense of % in power slotting and 1 zone where toons come in full force.So its not so absolute as you think.
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As much as I applaud the idea of dual builds, I really dont see it happening. So in effect we have two parties
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This is really up to the devs depending how much they want to bring the 2 aspects of the game closer and bridge the gap of PvE and PvP builds.A dual build solution or infinite respecs bridges the gap instantly.
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But there are missions that can be done in PvP zones and perhaps it might be nice to see those introduced in a more interactive way.
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Would be nice and i like the proposal.
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How to get us in? - disable Inventions / Accolades. Give us a level playing feild. Or at least give us this option in the Arena.
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I don't have time right now to go through all suggestions, but I gotta comment on some.
I agree that the best way to get pve people into pvp would be a level playing field.
However, this is impossible to accomplish in practise, if we still put all players on same zone. You can disable whatever you want, but thats not going to level anything. An experienced pvper will still come out on top, usually quite quickly. Skill, you see. This little thing called skill. It took me years to become what I am today. You don't just download a fotm build out of net and shazam! are a good pvper.
Only way to level playing field in reality would be to separate experienced people and inexperienced people from each other. How to accomplish this would be something to discuss.
I was once wondering about having arena events separately for experienced and most importantly, beginners. There would be a list of people banned from beginners event to ensure that no experienced pvper we know, could come and beat newbies senseless. This is more important than anything related to builds, although Im not completely against extra arena parameters.
Note how there is nothing that prevents a bunch of pvers from arenaing against each others pve builds right now. I dont think they are doing it however...why?
ps. I will comment other issues later.
pps. I havent put that much effort into grinding IOs or accolades. I think my pvp blaster has maybe the 5% hp/end thing and thats about it. The others dont have much more. I cba to get accolades cause they rarely have an effect in pvp. My blaster also has at least half of its enhances normal SOs still...
Good stuff. It does seem as if, heaven forbid, this thread may actually be useful.
A few thoughts:
1. The option of "disable set bonuses" for Arena seems one that has some swell of support.
2. Automatic disabling of current zones is a bit of a no-no.
3. Having said that, an optional PvP zone with disabling auto may possibly a way forward.
4. Have to point out that even when "set bonuses" of IO are levl 50+, the uniques such as +stealth, +recovery, +recharge, +regeneration, and resistance to mez effects are still active and convey a huge advantage. I would *imagine* that issue 11 will bring even more "problems" with "Super-powerful" unique bonuses. SO I would point out that the fact that set bonuses get disabled when exemped (although specialised PvP ers will almost certainly overcome that) is only half the answer.
Just a thought:
I wonder if PvP could be "advertised". Maybe a PvE'ers PvP night?
If there was enough enthusiasm and good will this might be fun?. For instance, we gather into teams, have a laugh for an hour or two, and its all in "PvE spirit". No elitism, no ganking, all politeness. Maybe a nice PvP er could lead each team, offer freindly advice, and try to convert us?. And any 1137 speaking, trashtalking, elitist ganker in the zone could be excommunicated from any team and repeatedly pounded to earth until he leaves us alone? 
Guys - entice us.
Whilst dual PVE/PVP builds might help with some of the disparity, I think the only way to have a TRULY level playing field in PvP zones is to dynamically adjust toon effectiveness based on player performance.
Sort of like a reverse handicap rating: There's a baseline (where we are now) that noone can go under, but you can get buffed above that baseline when you perform poorly in the zone. So say Toon A gets a kill on Toon B. Toon A's bonus would decrease slightly (though not below zero) and Toon B's bonus would increase slightly (up to a predetermined 'cap').
This rating then manifests itself as a buff to damage output, mez resistance and/or damage resistance etc. to those who get killed more often. The handicap could be toggleable in the arena, and mandatory in Zones.
What this would mean in practice is if PvE'er Joe came into Sirens, after getting his rear handed to him several times he would have a much greater chance of surviving attacks and/or killing other players. Essentially you wouldn't be able to gank the same person over and over without them getting stronger and more resistant to the ganking... and it would work in a similar fashion to offset "Greater Numbers versus Smaller Numbers". Eventually the bonus the weaker player/team gets would compensate them for the stronger player/team's ability (whether that ability is due to player skill, build, or team organisation).
Yes, it'd probably be extremely difficult to code. There already exists a set of global zone buffs/debuffs for each faction in Warburg though... so in theory it could be possible.
Now that Sir, is a sterling Idea.
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Now that Sir, is a sterling Idea.
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How to get the Devs sic'ed onto it though, and not overly upset PvP'ers in the process? 
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Good stuff. It does seem as if, heaven forbid, this thread may actually be useful.
A few thoughts:
1. The option of "disable set bonuses" for Arena seems one that has some swell of support.
2. Automatic disabling of current zones is a bit of a no-no.
3. Having said that, an optional PvP zone with disabling auto may possibly a way forward.
4. Have to point out that even when "set bonuses" of IO are levl 50+, the uniques such as +stealth, +recovery, +recharge, +regeneration, and resistance to mez effects are still active and convey a huge advantage. I would *imagine* that issue 11 will bring even more "problems" with "Super-powerful" unique bonuses. SO I would point out that the fact that set bonuses get disabled when exemped (although specialised PvP ers will almost certainly overcome that) is only half the answer.
Just a thought:
I wonder if PvP could be "advertised". Maybe a PvE'ers PvP night?
If there was enough enthusiasm and good will this might be fun?. For instance, we gather into teams, have a laugh for an hour or two, and its all in "PvE spirit". No elitism, no ganking, all politeness. Maybe a nice PvP er could lead each team, offer freindly advice, and try to convert us?. And any 1137 speaking, trashtalking, elitist ganker in the zone could be excommunicated from any team and repeatedly pounded to earth until he leaves us alone?
Guys - entice us.
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Not exactly no-no, it rather say...
NO WAI D00DZ
I reckon there should be a night where, all the devs etc, come to PD so we can pwn them! That would make PvP popular, even if it was just for one night!
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I wonder if PvP could be "advertised". Maybe a PvE'ers PvP night?
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No way either. A full PvEer is hard to get into pvp, since it needs more effort to do it. No i dont mean that us pvpers got uber skills that pvp, its just, jump around all the time, try stay away from Mez, keep an eye out for stalkers. Pretty much multitasking which is hard to achieve the first days of someone's pvp hobby.
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I reckon there should be a night where, all the devs etc, come to PD so we can pwn them! That would make PvP popular, even if it was just for one night!
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Sound's Awesome!!
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I reckon there should be a night where, all the devs etc, come to PD so we can pwn them! That would make PvP popular, even if it was just for one night!
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Sound's Awesome!!
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Anything you can organise Kerensky?
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I wonder if PvP could be "advertised". Maybe a PvE'ers PvP night?
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No way either. A full PvEer is hard to get into pvp, since it needs more effort to do it. No i dont mean that us pvpers got uber skills that pvp, its just, jump around all the time, try stay away from Mez, keep an eye out for stalkers. Pretty much multitasking which is hard to achieve the first days of someone's pvp hobby.
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Good point - just thinking outside the box on my part really.
I would suggest, however, that hard core PvE'ers arent ever going to come into PvP. You need to get the Cognito's of the world in. PvE players who arent adverse to the idea of PvP, but arent keen on it / are put off by it.
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NO WAI D00DZ
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4d\/3rt1z1ng h1n7. 13375p34k w1ll n0t 3nt1c3 p\/3rz 1n2 p\/p zonz.
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I wonder if PvP could be "advertised". Maybe a PvE'ers PvP night?
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No way either. A full PvEer is hard to get into pvp, since it needs more effort to do it. No i dont mean that us pvpers got uber skills that pvp, its just, jump around all the time, try stay away from Mez, keep an eye out for stalkers. Pretty much multitasking which is hard to achieve the first days of someone's pvp hobby.
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The 3vP event did a pretty good job of getting us PvErs into a PvP event.
I still remember being chased around an open arena map by Mesmers Repel Forcefield and TPing about to avoid it with fondness.
As well as being turned into The Unkillable by Extremus and happily tearing a trio of blasters to pieces.
A alternative PvP specific build would be my top wish for my toons to try a bit more PvP. As is I like Fly and my AOE holds too much to lose them so I can PvP properly.
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NO WAI D00DZ
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4d\/3rt1z1ng h1n7. 13375p34k w1ll n0t 3nt1c3 p\/3rz 1n2 p\/p zonz.
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1337 i5 I)4 5H1Zh/\/17. Y0.
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I wonder if PvP could be "advertised". Maybe a PvE'ers PvP night?
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No way either. A full PvEer is hard to get into pvp, since it needs more effort to do it. No i dont mean that us pvpers got uber skills that pvp, its just, jump around all the time, try stay away from Mez, keep an eye out for stalkers. Pretty much multitasking which is hard to achieve the first days of someone's pvp hobby.
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The 3vP event did a pretty good job of getting us PvErs into a PvP event.
I still remember being chased around an open arena map by Mesmers Repel Forcefield and TPing about to avoid it with fondness.
As well as being turned into The Unkillable by Extremus and happily tearing a trio of blasters to pieces.
A alternative PvP specific build would be my top wish for my toons to try a bit more PvP. As is I like Fly and my AOE holds too much to lose them so I can PvP properly.
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Thats pretty true and i agree here. An alternative build would be nice. I saw a few guys yesterday at Union (PvP night held at union last night) complaining about it because their pvp builds are on test.
Another out of the box idea?
PvEvP!
...
Off the top of my head... and this is VERY loose, but principles:
Lets say we have a villian team and a hero team. Each is accompanied by 3 arachnos or 3 longbow minions (for the sake of argument) equal to 3 minions for one player.
Both teams, with their minion helpers plonked in a smallish, and relatively closed off map (i.e. corridors, small rooms, not big terrains). Maybe some enemy types in it that fight anybody (like CoT or something).
In the centre a clickable object (long click). Click this, and opposing team "win" and get a rare salvage drop (arcane OR tech people...)
Hospital = the start of the map, but with one end and one hp. Bung some drones in the map or something to stop repeatakill.
Gain xp/inf. for killing the "neutrals" or enemy minions, at increased rate. No xp for killing enemy players (but it will make the enemy minions easy prey!).
Gain debt from enemy minions / "neutrals" proportion of the damage only. So Mr. Stalker 2 shotting you wont mean much debt, but getting hammered by the minions will.
Anyway just an idea. PvEvP might solve a few problems:-
AoE powers will be useful to cream your enemies minions.
Effects like KB which dont do much in PvP will still be highly valuable.
Support AT's will be able to participate in "duels" because they help their minions.
"Smooths out" inquities in power (e.g. inventions) because of the averaging effect of minions.
Rewards, but not by ganking other players.
PvE players / builds / skill actually helps you fight other players (because they will be without minions).
And finally will be a whole new thing to try.
As I say, not fleshed out, but maybe PvEvP would be an angle?
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I wonder if PvP could be "advertised". Maybe a PvE'ers PvP night?
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I believe we are looking at creating on Union a casual PvP night for Arena and maybe another FFA night in WB which last time was good fun with just solo FFA's and mostly chat about builds and so on.Knight Stalker i believe will be doing something related to Arena events so we see soon regarding this.
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If there was enough enthusiasm and good will this might be fun?. For instance, we gather into teams, have a laugh for an hour or two, and its all in "PvE spirit". No elitism, no ganking, all politeness. Maybe a nice PvP er could lead each team, offer freindly advice, and try to convert us?. And any 1137 speaking, trashtalking, elitist ganker in the zone could be excommunicated from any team and repeatedly pounded to earth until he leaves us alone?
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For the record this already takes place every Monday on test server and last night we had some really good fun by trying this on Union.Was random fun of arena with no overpowering and so on.
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No way either. A full PvEer is hard to get into pvp, since it needs more effort to do it.
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This is easily doable imho.Last Arena Night on Union proved it to be so.We had some newcomers in the matches that had some really good fun.
All we need is some organisation i believe and pulling it a bit together.But people need to be willing and try out.When we enter in Arena at Monday Nights is not to rip people to pieces but to have fun.I not mind going with a weaker team and split up from my teammates just to help another team learn a few things.Even if we lose the people will have fun and people need understand that everyone is welcome in such things PvE or PvP buildwise and that the people creating the matches and events aim towards people having fun and not blasting newcomers to pieces.At least from my experience with any Arena matches i have been.
Even the massive 16vs16 match we had versus the french was really really good fun and despite losing and so on there was a really sportmanship like atmosphere to the whole event and no ROFLOLOLOL WE OWNED j0000 FACES by the French and my hat off to Delphen and his company for that.Was good fun and thats it and looking forward to a rematch.
Only sidetrack thing was Psydock getting me nuked. >
Regarding this PvEvP thingy.I would love to see a PvE arena with the suggestion i made sometime ago with the increased mob spawns which would have a random chance of linking 2 teams against each other while in this PvE arena in the middle of the whole mob spawn mayhem.
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1. We don't want rewards.
Big shock!. We dont avoid PvP because it dosent give xp / salvage / inf / whatever. We probably drop into Bloody Bay for Shivans, but only if we have to do the STF/LRSF.
THe fact is that big PvE'ers with PvE builds and big teams get oodles of xp / inf / drops in PvE zones. We don't need or want more. Ironically, we need these rewards less than PvP'ers, but ill come on to that.
How to get us in? - Not rewards.
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Ok, so rewards don't help drag people in much, but at least the devs are making an effort... the use of rewards in PvP zones certainly doesn't have a negatory effect, give the devs some credit for trying
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2. We like a level playing feild.
This is a huge reason we dont enter PvP. With the advent of inventions, and with various exploits to allow early acquisition of accolade powers, PvP is *not* a level playing feild. And thats what we like. PvE'ers as a rule dont care so much about min/maxing, or fully optimising their build. Although we can, we are more interested in having a good concept and good fun. We enter a PvP zone we tend to be fighting min/maxed PvP'ers who, skill being equal, will beat us by simple virtue of being stuffed full of "teh ub3r" inventions.
How to get us in? - disable Inventions / Accolades. Give us a level playing feild. Or at least give us this option in the Arena.
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Aside from Zaldor's points, most proper 'PvPers' will actually be far more skillfull than the casual 'PvEer' in terms of PvP ability, due to experience and effort used, so it doesn't matter too much if they do or do not have accolades/IOs, to be honest, if all I was gonna do with IOd toons was rip the casual PvPers in the zones to pieces, I wouldn't have bothered, and I suspect, few would have. IOs are all about making tough matches between seasoned PvPers more interesting.. just like ED made people's PvE builds different, IOs make people's PvP builds different from one another too.
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3. PvP Builds
- nerf aid self for instance.
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NO. Seriously. Nerf Aid Self and squishies can only PvP properly if there is an empath in the team. Nerf Aid Self and basically you can say goodbye to anything except Scrappers, Tanks, Brutes and Stalkers in the zones, at least for soloers, and they don't make too good or interesting teams. I like to solo sometimes on my blaster or domi, for instance, both of whom have aid self. I would be solo but also on the lookout for anyone around who would make a good PuG PvP team for that extra bit of fun. Take away Aid Self's usefullness of course, and I'd probably only zonal PvP with my stalker or if I had my PvP mates with me anyway, and if a group of 'PvPers' go into a zone with a well balanced team then it doesn't make any difference, but that's not really the case for casual PvPers. Nerf Aid Self and say goodbye to solo squishies in zones, imo.
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4. Attitude. Or - I dont really care much for "i pwnz joo".
Us PvE'ers are a casual lot. We like a bit of social chat, we like a slick but not perfect team, we drop in, drop out of things and have a laugh. We dont have a great burning desire to "pwnz" anyone, and dont in general get a kick out of humiliating or laughing at anyone.
In short, the ideal PvP for PvE players is with another PvE player. That when we can kick back and enjoy things. We dont even mind loosing in that freindly laisez fare attitude. The fact is, the psychological make up of PvE'ers and PvP'ers tends to be a little different.
Solution: Well, the more of us enter the zones/raids/arena, the more attractive it will become to us. But all the rampant aggression in the zones and the desperation to win is just a big no no for us.
Now this is something we should sort out ourselves. If more of us enter the zones the more of a pleasant time will be had. But, trashtalk, and the like, are a big turn of for us.
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I know that saying "No, YOU trashtalk worse" is a bit of a cop-out as far as making an argument goes, but I certainly find it's the 'sunday PvPers' who get alot more animated on broadcast in victory or defeat, and my PvPer friends all lol at them for it
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5. FoTM Builds, or be 1337 or be cannon fodder.
*yawn*. This is related to point 3 about builds and point 2 about level playing feilds. But many PvEe'rs beleive (I think usually fairly correctly) that PvP zones are filled with the "1337" min/maxed, FoTM builds. Ice/Energy blappers and tanks, Energy/Ninjistu Stalkers.. etc etc. I wont bore you with the details.
How to tempt us in:- Partially, by addressing points 2. and 3. Also, by recognizing that a Energy / Ninjistu stalker bragging about killing a PvE Sonic defender (for instance) is nothing at all to boast about. Guys, seek a challenge not an easy victory. Unfortunately, the perception is that PvP zones are stuffed full of predatory PvP'ers looking for us easy meat non min/maxed PvE players.
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Challenges are great, but unfortunately there's always gonna be a few people in the zone who don't want to PvP with anything except their Ice/EM etc., in which case you're pretty much not going to be able to put up much of a fight unless you join the arms race. Though you are right, I enjoy far more playing my Sonic/Psi in PvP than I would if I had a Rad/Psi, but that's only because I think it's pretty much just as good as it anyway, with the added bonus of being quite rare.
That's my way of fighting FotMs anyway.
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6. Finally - its not Immersive / theres no story.
Particularly for RP'ers, RP-lite'ers, and indeed many non RP PvE's we just get the feeling of "no story" to PvP. Its all about "I pwnz joo" not "I saved the world from the villanous [whatever]".
When do us PvE'ers venture into the zones? Well, look at the big epic events - you cant move for lag in the zones. We LOVE PvP then. It feels like an EVENT. The other time? our Bloody Bay runs. And I suspect not just because we "need" the occasional shivans... hopping around the zone collecting ore samples *feels* like a story.
Solution: Give us a story!. I cant see anything wrong with a co-op Zone fighting Rikti invaders and EACH OTHER!. Run more big epic fights!. RV is an example.
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To be fair, the devs do give storylines at at least the level you want in terms of immersion, the trouble is most of them involve indulging in the PvE aspects which are often ignored. Surely you can just have PvP goals to show the storyline? Sorry, nope. Can't do that. Getting PvP kills are easily exploitable (/t randomvillain, hey there, mind if I farm you for this mission? I've got lots of inf on CoV ), as well as the fact that if you are on at off-peak times or the zone is otherwise empty, they are impossible to complete, holding up whatever zone story arc or whatever you may be on.
Solution #2 is to get everyone to RP PvP, which is just makes me lol.
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I rather suspect you arent sorry at all?
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btw ROFL
@Rooks
"You should come inside the box... Then you'll know what I mean."
Cheers, did my best....
Now retired in pvp, he is farmbuild now.... 
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There isn't probably a more reasonable example that Falcon Fire tbh, the guy even PvP'd with a fire/fire blaster. Not what I'd call 'FOTM' for PvP scenes.
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Falcon is one of the guys that has my respect in PvP zones for trying hard no matter what he plays and always watches how more experienced players move and attack and also having the gutts to ask for help which is given to him without problems.
for a newcomer is pretty much enough to say he participated amongst the hardcores in the match against Vigilance with his tank and did a great job.
The most unfair thing about PvP is skill/experience then I suppose. IO's/accolades/whatever are also a contributing factor. I understand where you are coming from though Cog.