Questions Regarding Ice Armour and Tanking Recluse
Perhaps with help of a Sonic or a FF buff? Sonic gives fire tankers close to cap resist, downside is not having a dull-pain alike power so they need good +recharge to keep healing flame up and running.
The main issue i see is the accuracy tower that buffs LR massive on tohit. Perhaps a tactic might be using Hibernate and hopefully the team can whipe the acc tower within 30 seconds. Having a /dark or /rad -acc toggles running on him might help extra on this.
Ok, i admit, i am a perma granite, and i do not fear or at least i do not worry about LR much. 1 of my runs (serious not all succes though) i had a perma-empath doing absorb/heal other, while both were buffed by Kin SB. This way i could even stand up against 10 EB and LR himself, at that point even a Granite has a very hard time.
It kinda seems that just like kin, rad and sortlike, Granite became 'favorite' in STF missions. Happy for me, but i do feel bitty sad about this as other tankers should ahve equal chances. (i think inv only survive with Unstoppable and fire needs a sonic or massive +recharge).
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To be frank, outside buffs or Stocking up on the Orange +res insps (Sturdies) are the only way you'll last long against Recluse until your teammates destroy the Yellow (+Accuracy) tower.
The damage he outputs can be weathered if you have Hoarfrost up and Healing Support or Very high Defence + AidSelf (a perma-hoarfrost build is now possible with IOs if you wish to go that route) but the ToHit buff from the Accuracy tower will basically let him hit you no matter your defence.
Your only options are really +HP, Healing or +Resistance. You can get resistance from Kins/Sonics/Stormies, Dark Defenders, Temp Powers such as the Wedding Band, Sturdies and Tough.
You could, as I plan to do with my ice/ice, get permafrost and slot it with the IO from the resist set that gives an extra 3% def to all. Also could get someone with force fields to help out. Recluse only managed to hit my bro's granite tank once,for substantial damage, while bubbled.
Okay so does anyone know vageuly what the Accuracy buff he gets from the yellow tower is? Would I be better going at him with say 3 purples and 2 orange per minute or just accepting my fate and going for 5 orange? Good to know I haven't missed out any obvious def/res buffs though.
Has anyone tried pure energy Absorbtion/End redux endurance management and managed it?
Did not know about the global def buff IO, although i dont really have the spare 10m or so that kind of rare Enhance is going for these days.. 
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The resist/global def isnt that expensive.
If you're lucky i still have a 30ish one on my blaster (swapped to ice epic ->def), can give you a nice discount 
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Okay so does anyone know vageuly what the Accuracy buff he gets from the yellow tower is? Would I be better going at him with say 3 purples and 2 orange per minute or just accepting my fate and going for 5 orange?
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5 Orange.
He can hit an INV through Defender-level Power Boosted Vengence with that tower up. I've tested...
Once the yellow tower is down, you can tank him reasonably normally.
Streakbreakers would kick in even if he was missing alot and icetanks with lack of res would be floored. Everyone needs support, in one form or another so doing things as a team combining powers is the only option. Right powers, right places, right time. If ya cant do it with a team then ya fail as a team.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Very pertinent question.
I have done the STF with an Ice tank (without taunt). A success, but painful. I doubt we would have succeeded without a Phantom Army. My rad defender couldnt effectively debuff LR - as soon as I did, LR turned around, ran at me, and pummeled me to death from full health in 2 shots (in the blink of an eye).
Provisionally, when I finally get my Ice/Ice to 50, I would like to try the STF with him, for a challenge.
My thoughts on the matter:
To start with: The basics.
1. Accuracy Tower MUST go down as soon as possible. With it down, things are a lot smoother.
2. To start with Hoarfrost up.
3. ENsure you have TFC and all +HP accolades.
4. Tough 3 slotted.
5. Well slotted Aid Self.
6. Full Insp Tray of Oranges (maybe purples and greens).
7. Taunt slotted with 3xSO (Possibly 2xIO) taunt enh.
Next:
I would play to an Icer's Strength. Unsurpassed and unslowable mobility. I aim to have well slotted fly and taunt with 3 taunt durations. Float above LR (So he can't superspeed - has to fly instead), taunt, fly, taunt, fly, taunt, fly. This would require very careful timing of taunt but if you max out taunt durations you could minimise the times you taunt. Because this is the one time you will really be open to being hit hard: fly supresses, LR catches up with you, wham... etc. Depending on this tactic, Aid Self could potentially be used - but again, Fly supression kicks in and may be better off swallowing greens or relying on Mr. Empath. Hopefully you will have LR debuffed with at least one Rad (Now thats a powerset thats invaluable for STF) - but this means you MUST perma aggro LR.
Im not saying its easy, but I think it requires a taunt and run. LR packs a whallop at range, but he wont obliterate you like he does in melee.
If you range him he may end drain you, then ya stop flying and get caught up with and get mullered.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
That assumes you aren't perma-AB'ed and/or SB'ed.... there's also powers that grant end drain +resist...
In doing a STF ya can make up an ideal team of 1 ice tank 7 controllers or have to deal with what ya got. Tank with taunt or no taunt changes playing field (thats all) but no taunt lacks so much flexibility. In doing that kite Id want AB or SB not rely on AM, as the moment id go for AM lord recluse may use suppression, and as for level of -end recovery of channel gun in stf i wouldnt know yet (i will say in RV my emps AB works fine). But kited he is more likely to get his men out.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I tried to read that 7 times.. but serious i dont know what you're talking about 
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(50)MaceX/(50)Encore
Sign the petition, dont let CoH go down! SIGN!
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if theres a Granite to tank recluse we win, if there isn't, we lose.
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I'd like to add that Recluse can do virtually nothing to an Inv/*, either.
Spad's the best ice tanker I've ever teamed with, his build honed over 6 issues to the ultimate blend of toughness and flexibility. And even he had a tough time of it against Mr. Recluse and his Happy Holiday Campers.
Take everything that'll take some of the burden off your Defense, because lordy knows it ain't gonna save you from Recluse. And hope there's at least one empath and a sonic backing you up full-time.
DON'T eat muffins while I'm developing you.
Pants! Turkey Magnates! A man in a box! Rogue AI! Come one, come all, to arc ID 10107 - It's [i]'Not as long as some other arcs'[/i]!
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if theres a Granite to tank recluse we win, if there isn't, we lose.
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I'd like to add that Recluse can do virtually nothing to an Inv/*, either.
Spad's the best ice tanker I've ever teamed with, his build honed over 6 issues to the ultimate blend of toughness and flexibility. And even he had a tough time of it against Mr. Recluse and his Happy Holiday Campers.
Take everything that'll take some of the burden off your Defense, because lordy knows it ain't gonna save you from Recluse. And hope there's at least one empath and a sonic backing you up full-time.
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As Wilf and I discussed after we did the STF the second time (First was me tanking, second was his Inv/Fire tank), Ice doesn't really have a hope for several reasons, many of which are unavoidable.
Firstly, it doesn't matter how much defence you have, there's still a ~5% of a hit landing on you. Some of Recluse's attacks hit for 4000-5000 damage and Ice lacks any resistance to S/L. All it takes is two lucky hits (or one if your HP isn't full at the time) and you're down.
With Inv, you're already at an advantage with capped S/L resists *and* a moderate amount of S/L defense. However, what really finishes it off is the preponderance of Defence buffs versus Res buffs.
With perma Fortitude on him, Wilf's HP bar barely blinked during the fight with Recluse, meanwhile I hit the debt cap with plenty to spare even with the Wedding Band *and* the Eye of the Magus accolade running.
In conclusion, the game mechanics and power effects are still unfairly skewed towards Resistance simply because the ideal case is Defence + Resistance and it's much easier to gain DEF than to gain RES.
There simply isn't an easy way to tank Recluse as an Ice tank without half a team of Sonic defenders to accompany you.
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I tried to read that 7 times.. but serious i dont know what you're talking about
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Amongst 7 controllers a tank is almost only useful for keeping fish.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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I tried to read that 7 times.. but serious i dont know what you're talking about
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Amongst 7 controllers a tank is almost only useful for keeping fish.
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That is not true. Tanks are good for posing too.
@Unthing ... Mostly on Union.
They can be quite useful for vengeance and fallout, also.
DON'T eat muffins while I'm developing you.
Pants! Turkey Magnates! A man in a box! Rogue AI! Come one, come all, to arc ID 10107 - It's [i]'Not as long as some other arcs'[/i]!
In some teams, people have failed or said it cant be done after they were all standing almost neatly behind tank getting hit and debuffed themselves for ever decreasing chances or had people segregated as in "you lot do gens and us lot do recluse" and then ended up with a defender who should of still done -Dam and -Acc to Recluse applying it to a Gen instead XD .
The teams is one unit imo and its a case of ya either come together as one enough or dont. Wilfs build works well with any type of defender and should be making it even easier for them in fact and I would say teams could play along side him unchallenged but if they had always known Wilf and levelled with him then ya less likely to see them when it comes to a challenge with someone else almost completely different actually rise to it.
Its not ice tanks cant do it, its a ice tank couldnt do it with a certain team, and its not the rest of the teams fault and not the ice tanks fault its just the way it was for the whole team.
Sonics +res is great but other defenders -dam is good too.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
-Dam isn't very good, actually.
Foes resist damage debuffs to the same level as their resistance to that damage type. Recluse does mostly S/L and I'm guessing he's got pretty high S/L resists too.
Thus, if he's got a 90% S/L resist, then a 90% damage debuff will actually only debuff his S/L damage by 9%.
+Resistance is *much* better than -Damage against tough mobs.
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-Dam isn't very good, actually.
Foes resist damage debuffs to the same level as their resistance to that damage type. Recluse does mostly S/L and I'm guessing he's got pretty high S/L resists too.
Thus, if he's got a 90% S/L resist, then a 90% damage debuff will actually only debuff his S/L damage by 9%.
[/ QUOTE ]And that's without taking into account the AV debuff resistance, AND the fact that he's +4.
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-Dam isn't very good, actually.
Foes resist damage debuffs to the same level as their resistance to that damage type. Recluse does mostly S/L and I'm guessing he's got pretty high S/L resists too.
Thus, if he's got a 90% S/L resist, then a 90% damage debuff will actually only debuff his S/L damage by 9%.
[/ QUOTE ]And that's without taking into account the AV debuff resistance, AND the fact that he's +4.
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Good point, I'd forgotten how badly Damage Debuffs scale with level - though I've no idea what kind of scale the AV Debuff resists are.
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-Dam isn't very good, actually.
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Nonsense, he's a great player and a lovely bloke!
DON'T eat muffins while I'm developing you.
Pants! Turkey Magnates! A man in a box! Rogue AI! Come one, come all, to arc ID 10107 - It's [i]'Not as long as some other arcs'[/i]!
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-Dam isn't very good, actually.
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Nonsense, he's a great player and a lovely bloke!
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Thanks for sticking up for him Wilf!
-dam isnt as good as +res but hes better than nothing
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
AVs don't resist damage debuffs, and LR certainly hasn't anything near 90% S/L. Maybe 50% at best.
Your experiences don't match mine either, he never hits me (well, "5%") when I'm around 60-70% def.
Okay so i've found myself on a few STF's and each time it seems if theres a Granite to tank recluse we win, if there isn't, we lose. As someone who hates the idea of Granite i have become determined to attempt, if it is possible to come up with a build for my Ice/Ice to become a PvE aggro grabbing Recluse Tanker. I was hoping to take the Arctic mastery pool but frankly i'm willing to sacrifice concept to manage this.
I've dropped every attack but Taunt, Ice Patch, Greater Ice Sword and Freezing Touch and ended up with Tough and Weave, only problem being I'd have to drop Stamina to get Aid Self and don't know if Energy Absorption could make up for it. Also aside from Combat jumping are there any other obvious powers for getting more defence i've missed?
(The lack of a Hero Planner file is due to posting at work)
Edit, Forgot to add i'm already running every Defence Power from my primary barring Permafrost...
The pellet with the poisons in the Vessel with the Pessel, the Chalice from the Palace has the brew that is true...